Ask a Christian Theologian

[PedroSteckecilo]

Through the power of HISTORY I have determined that I will never happily believe in The Christian God, and should the Christian God exist, I will defy him.

I refuse to give into such a being as this and if God is as all loving as some Christians claim, I seriously doubt he would hold my doubt against me given the attitudes of some of his followers.

It's hard to have faith when you're me.

 

[AuntyEthel]

Dunno if this question has been asked (don't have a week to read through all the pages) but what does a Christian Theologist actually do? I'm not ripping off your degree or anything, I'm just curious.

 

[Baby Tea]

job didn't blame god because this is supposed to be a loving perosnla god. You never expect the perosn who is being a jerk to you to be oyur closest friend betraying you do you? God is a jerk. ok, so he gave back more than he had before--what, so that makes it all worth it des it? And why was god making a deal with the devil anyway? Ifgod is so smart, he wouldn't have needed to prove that job was faithful to him. It's like the only thing in religion ever that actually required any proof. And i'm sure Job secretly blamed god, why would his friend let this happen to him? BAD FRIEND.

What? God isn't your 'buddy' or 'pal'. He's God. And while it's true He loves us, he isn't a 'friend' in the sense that you're thinking of. This idea of a 'personal God' is so very modern, and inconceivable in Job's time. And how do YOU know why Job didn't blame God? You didn't even read the story, or know much about it.

You seem so quick to subject God to what YOU view as right or wrong. God doesn't answer to you (Or anyone), go figure. And just because you don't understand why things happen if God is a loving God, doesn't mean that God doesn't exist because he doesn't act the way YOU expect Him to.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

What? God isn't your 'buddy' or 'pal'. He's God. And while it's true He loves us, he isn't a 'friend' in the sense that you're thinking of. This idea of a 'personal God' is so very modern, and inconceivable in Job's time. And how do YOU know why Job didn't blame God? You didn't even read the story, or know much about it.

You seem so quick to subject God to what YOU view as right or wrong. God doesn't answer to you (Or anyone), go figure. And just because you don't understand why things happen if God is a loving God, doesn't mean that God doesn't exist because he doesn't act the way YOU expect Him to.

God and his followers are certainly quick to what they view as right or wrong. Why should I care what they think? History tells me they're psycho's and hipocrites.

As well, God has delivered a "new message for a new time" before, if he exists he'd better get of his lazy divine ass and do it again, because right now I refuse to accept such a stupid outdated message as presented in the bible.

 

[Baby Tea]

God and his followers are certainly quick to what they view as right or wrong. Why should I care what they think? History tells me they're psycho's and hipocrites.

As well, God has delivered a "new message for a new time" before, if he exists he'd better get of his lazy divine ass and do it again, because right now I refuse to accept such a stupid outdated message as presented in the bible.

Oh please. Then history tells me that naturalists and atheists are antisemitic, genocidal maniacs who want to kill everyone with a disability. See how stupid that sounds? People have done stupid and terrible things in the name of all sorts of 'causes'. Christianity is no different in that regard, except that none of those terrible acts (Since I'm assuming you mean the inquisition, the crusades, and such) have ANYTHING to do with the message of Christ, and are, in fact, decried by Christians the world over.

Apparently, the only thing 'history' has taught you is illogical assumptions and generalizations.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

Look up Calvin's Genevan Consistory, and then get back to me. They strictly enforced to the letter conformation with biblical scripture on pain of torture and death.

I wrote my final thesis on Justification of Violence through Religion and I've found concrete evidence of violent excuses within the writings of major theologans and can easily make a direct connection between Monotheism and Religious Violence. If you want me to write you a paper on the subject give me a month and I'll get back to you, but I doubt anything I can say will convince you.

 

[Baby Tea]

Look up Calvin's Genevan Consistory, and then get back to me. They strictly enforced to the letter conformation with biblical scripture on pain of torture and death.

I'm not saying people haven't used scripture to 'back up' awful things (I'll be the first to admit the opposite), but what I AM saying is that the teachings of Christ, in the New Testament, do not condone or permit these actions. Anyone can grab a verse out of context from almost ANY writing to make it sound like it's saying something it isn't. What I'm saying is that the manipulation of the text isn't the fault of the text itself, but rather the people manipulating it.

Because by your logic, then I can make a direct link from Darwinism (And his writings) to Hitler and his concentration camps and 'hospitals' where he murdered physically and mentally disabled people.

 

[chewy21]

Here's a good question:

With the myriad religious sites out there (some for every religion, some for non-believers, and still others for both to come together and discuss), why would you make this post here at the escapist?

While we're on the subject:

Why does the Christian god deserve your belief and faith over any of the other gods? Or do they even exist?

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

Look up Calvin's Genevan Consistory, and then get back to me. They strictly enforced to the letter conformation with biblical scripture on pain of torture and death.

Because by your logic, then I can make a direct link from Darwinism (And his writings) to Hitler and his concentration camps and 'hospitals' where he murdered physically and mentally disabled people.

Hitler is an all around anomaly, he justified himself with every means he had at his disposal be it scientific or religious. Sure there were elements of fallacious Social Darwinism in his beliefs (Note: Natural selection does not believe there is a "Better" species, only a species more fit to survive in a given environment, also universal progression and advancement are similarly not in keeping with the real theory of Evolution, nothing "gets better" things simply change)

Also here's a decent study on what Hitler was, you can make him an atheist OR a Christian depending on what quotes you use. He was neither, he was an anomalous monster, that's all.

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/mischedj/ca_hitler.html

 

[Baby Tea]

Hitler is an all around anomaly, he justified himself with every means he had at his disposal be it scientific or religious. Sure there were elements of fallacious Social Darwinism in his beliefs (Note: Natural selection does not believe there is a "Better" species, only a species more fit to survive in a given environment, also universal progression and advancement are similarly not in keeping with the real theory of Evolution, nothing "gets better" things simply change)

Also here's a decent study on what Hitler was, you can make him an atheist OR a Christian depending on what quotes you use. He was neither, he was an anomalous monster, that's all.

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/mischedj/ca_hitler.html

Funny that I got this off the site you provided:
"It is important to be able to identify the difference between Hitler's public speeches and writing and what he really thought. A devious politician leading a nominally Christian country like 1930s Germany will say lots of Christian-sounding stuff to maintain popularity."

Besides, I could include Stalin into this talk as well.

I'm not saying Darwin is to blame for Hitler or Stalin, that's dumb. But I'm trying to point out the double standard between that and Christianity. The fundamental, core beliefs of Christianity do not condone those terrible acts, but rather they condemn them.

And if you say that 'Christianity has done way more terrible things then your Darwinism example', then to that I reply: 'Christianity was also around a heck of a lot longer. Give it time and then we'll talk.'

 

[TheDean]

job didn't blame god because this is supposed to be a loving perosnla god. You never expect the perosn who is being a jerk to you to be oyur closest friend betraying you do you? God is a jerk. ok, so he gave back more than he had before--what, so that makes it all worth it des it? And why was god making a deal with the devil anyway? Ifgod is so smart, he wouldn't have needed to prove that job was faithful to him. It's like the only thing in religion ever that actually required any proof. And i'm sure Job secretly blamed god, why would his friend let this happen to him? BAD FRIEND.

What? God isn't your 'buddy' or 'pal'. He's God. And while it's true He loves us, he isn't a 'friend' in the sense that you're thinking of. This idea of a 'personal God' is so very modern, and inconceivable in Job's time. And how do YOU know why Job didn't blame God? You didn't even read the story, or know much about it.

You seem so quick to subject God to what YOU view as right or wrong. God doesn't answer to you (Or anyone), go figure. And just because you don't understand why things happen if God is a loving God, doesn't mean that God doesn't exist because he doesn't act the way YOU expect Him to.

WOAH! I am not trying to proe god's inexistence at all. I'm working on the possibility that he is real./ And i'm saying that if he's real--he's a jerk and doens't deserve praise or worship. He has out-stayed his welcome as far as i am concerned. God, be gone.
I haven't read the story of Job recently, but i was taught it in sunday school.

 

[Anoos]

Michael Chrichton said it best in Jurassic Park- paraphrased, "humans had no standard of measurement that would allow them to conceptualize 100 million years ago". Radio carbon dating is still inexact- 10 million years from now, the carbon in the bones of me, you, Chairman Mao, Ghengis Kahn, Shakespeare, Mozart, and Napolean Bonaparte would all register in the same period of time. I am quite sure that scientists are still struggling to put everything in the right order.

Carbon dating isn't the only form of dating that scientists use, it's only good for ~10000 years because the half life of the carbon isotope they use is too short(something like 800 years i think) so it decays too quickly. That's why they use other radioactive isotopes of other element that are common enough but have longer half lifes and can go back to much much more distant times. If you look at Uranium-lead dating, it can go back 2.5 or so billion years with a potential error of around 2 million( ~2%) and thats only one of the techniques that are used.

Anyway that was slightly off topic, back to religion

Hold it! I didn't write that. Trace did. Please edit quotes more carefully.

-- Alex

yeah , oops, edited some other stuff from the post, must have messed my quote things

 

[DeusFps]

Will you ever stop letting blind faith run your life?

 

[lenin_117]

The problem with the bible is that it says that the earth was created aprrox. 4000 BC. So that means God PRE-BURIED the dinosaurs. And we've found human cities older than that. christianity is a joke and we're the punchline.

 

[Dele]

Will you ever stop letting blind faith run your life?

Is there a need for that? We are all employing blind faith of some level at our lives.

 

[latenightapplepie]

Even though you say you're a theologian and I assume therefore are probably looking for the 'how-do-you-know-god-exists' questions, I'll ask this one.

What is your view on ex-gays and ex-gay organisations like Exodus International?

 

[anNIALLator]

It's the Christian view that the human eye is too complicated and precise for evolution and must have been designed by God, right? If so, how come it so often doesn't work right? Lots of people wear glasses.

 

[Baby Tea]

WOAH! I am not trying to proe god's inexistence at all. I'm working on the possibility that he is real./ And i'm saying that if he's real--he's a jerk and doens't deserve praise or worship. He has out-stayed his welcome as far as i am concerned.

An I'm saying you're subjecting God to what YOU think is right or wrong, when it is God who decides. The part we see of this world and of God's works is so minuscule, but like stubborn teenagers we think we know everything.

Don't you think it's odd that some people, like yourself (Apparently) see sickness and such and say 'God isn't real, he's a jerk.' and other people can see that SAME sickness and situation and come to believe in God? I've known so many people in the worst of circumstances who have found immeasurable hope in the knowledge of God loving them and being there for them.

And you have this idea that God has 'out stayed his welcome', when millions of people around the world have a hope and faith in a god of some kind (Let alone the Christian God)? I'm quite thankful that isn't your decision to make.

I'm wondering why you post on these threads, The Dean. I honestly do, I'm not trying to bait you. It's more then evident that even if God Himself appeared to you and explained everything, you still wouldn't believe. So, then, why post?

Even though you say you're a theologian and I assume therefore are probably looking for the 'how-do-you-know-god-exists' questions, I'll ask this one.

What is your view on ex-gays and ex-gay organisations like Exodus International?

I'll take a stab at this one! I think they're great.
I can imagine the flaming that might come with this, but: I don't agree with homosexuality. That being said, I do NOT hate gay people, nor does God. I can't stand the 'churches' who have the 'God hates fags' signs. THOSE I hate. I hate sin, not sinners. If I hated sinners, I'd hate everyone. I'm just as sinful as the next person, be them gay or straight. Homosexuality isn't some 'super sin' or anything, and I hate it when people/churches get hung up on it.

I've had plenty of friends who were gay, and they knew my position. We were certainly still friends, and talked about it on more then one occasion, but still: We were/are friends. I personally know a man who was a homosexual, came to know Christ, and is now straight, married, and is just fine. I wouldn't say that the 'transition' (If you'd call it that) was easy or a 'switch to flip', but he did it and is happily married to his wonderful wife.

So, I'd say any ministry that helps people through, or out of, any sinful lifestyles or choices is fantastic, so long as they do it with understanding and love.

 

[TheDean]

WOAH! I am not trying to proe god's inexistence at all. I'm working on the possibility that he is real./ And i'm saying that if he's real--he's a jerk and doens't deserve praise or worship. He has out-stayed his welcome as far as i am concerned.

An I'm saying you're subjecting God to what YOU think is right or wrong, when it is God who decides. The part we see of this world and of God's works is so minuscule, but like stubborn teenagers we think we know everything.

Don't you think it's odd that some people, like yourself (Apparently) see sickness and such and say 'God isn't real, he's a jerk.' and other people can see that SAME sickness and situation and come to believe in God? I've known so many people in the worst of circumstances who have found immeasurable hope in the knowledge of God loving them and being there for them.

And you have this idea that God has 'out stayed his welcome', when millions of people around the world have a hope and faith in a god of some kind (Let alone the Christian God)? I'm quite thankful that isn't your decision to make.

I'm wondering why you post on these threads, The Dean. I honestly do, I'm not trying to bait you. It's more then evident that even if God Himself appeared to you and explained everything, you still wouldn't believe. So, then, why post?

Even though you say you're a theologian and I assume therefore are probably looking for the 'how-do-you-know-god-exists' questions, I'll ask this one.

What is your view on ex-gays and ex-gay organisations like Exodus International?

I'll take a stab at this one! I think they're great.
I can imagine the flaming that might come with this, but: I don't agree with homosexuality. That being said, I do NOT hate gay people, nor does God. I can't stand the 'churches' who have the 'God hates fags' signs. THOSE I hate. I hate sin, not sinners. If I hated sinners, I'd hate everyone. I'm just as sinful as the next person, be them gay or straight. Homosexuality isn't some 'super sin' or anything, and I hate it when people/churches get hung up on it.

I've had plenty of friends who were gay, and they knew my position. We were certainly still friends, and talked about it on more then one occasion, but still: We were/are friends. I personally know a man who was a homosexual, came to know Christ, and is now straight, married, and is just fine. I wouldn't say that the 'transition' (If you'd call it that) was easy or a 'switch to flip', but he did it and is happily married to his wonderful wife.

So, I'd say any ministry that helps people through, or out of, any sinful lifestyles or choices is fantastic, so long as they do it with understanding and love.

I post on here because i enjoy it, because i find beliefs in non-proven things amusing, and because i am bitter towards christianity becuase it tricked me for 12 years.

God decides? WHAT? Says who? I didn't elect him that's for sure.
Ppl in bad circumstances look to god because they have nothing else. THey are desperate. They are doing stupid things. God isn't gonna help you.

 

[Baby Tea]

I post on here because i enjoy it, because i find beliefs in non-proven things amusing, and because i am bitter towards christianity becuase it tricked me for 12 years.

God decides? WHAT? Says who? I didn't elect him that's for sure.
Ppl in bad circumstances look to god because they have nothing else. THey are desperate. They are doing stupid things. God isn't gonna help you.

Well God isn't a president, and this isn't a democracy. You may not choose to have to breathe air in order to live, but that's the way it is. You may not choose that God is God, but that's the way it is.

I think it's interesting that someone like yourself claims that belief in 'non-proven things' (You might try saying 'unproven things' instead) is amusing. From previous posts, you have shown yourself to be a Darwinist and 'devout' evolutionist.

Now, before you and other readers crack your fingers in anticipation of my about to say 'evolution isn't proven'...I'm not going to to say that, so put your venom away.

What I will say, however, is that the origin of life is unproven. The theory of evolution doesn't address this directly, of course, as anyone who knows much of it will tell you. So you'll have to look to the theories of 'Abiogenesis', which is completely unproven with little to no empirical evidence to back it up. In fact, NO evidence to back it up.

Now I'm not going to debate on whether Abiogenesis its true or not, at least not on this thread. That's not the point of my bringing it up. My point is that you more then likely believe it to be true (That we came from what is called the 'primordial ooze'), but with it being completely unproven! Amusing, indeed!

Also, in light of your 'God isn't going to help you' remark, I know firsthand how wrong that is. I've seen, and know people who have seen, that God is indeed at work in our lives. Miraculous things that you may either call fluke or coincidence, but that I've seen far too often to be either of those things.

Finally, how did Christianity trick you?