Ask a Christian Theologian

[Wrds]

Through the power of HISTORY I have determined that I will never happily believe in The Christian God, and should the Christian God exist, I will defy him.

I refuse to give into such a being as this and if God is as all loving as some Christians claim, I seriously doubt he would hold my doubt against me given the attitudes of some of his followers.

It's hard to have faith when you're me.

I do think it is not wise of me to reply to this but your statement just caught my interest.

I can't really tell if you are trolling or if this is just how you normally talk, either way I am going to assume you are a reasonably smart person. If god does exist and you are standing there at the last day to be judged for your sins i see you doing one of two things
1. The spirit(thoughts, beliefs, feelings, ect) you possess in this life will lead you to do just as you say.
or
2. You being a smart individual that I believe you actually are, will realize the err of your ways and wish to accept him.
To reply to your second statement - Every time I am offended by something another person, doesn't matter if they are christian or otherwise. I like to remember that God is perfect, but people aren't. That is if you choose to believe so.

 

[Lukeje]

And I would suggest that anyone who thinks that life could not have appeared by chance should try and visualise just how long scientists theorise it has been since the beginning of life. It is such a long time that it is actually impossible to visualise in terms of our limited life-spans. Add in the fact that the creation of life is not entirely random and you have a perfectly plausible theory.

Oh please. They've been adding time and adding time to this theory over and over because they more they learn, the more they know that there is no way it could happen in 'this about of time'.
'How about THIS amount of time?'
'Wait, this is way more complex then we thought'
'Oh, ok how about THIS about of time?'
'Nope, still to short.'
'Ok...we'll keep adding'

That was an OBVIOUS summation of what I'm sure is decades of research, but the point remains: They just keep adding time, switching up the chemicals, place where it happened, etc.

And how was the creation of life not random? That doesn't sound like any atheist or naturalist I know.

As a tangent, how is adding time to the timeline any different to how Creationists keep changing their story? You know, as scientists find 'missing links'. Oh yeah, now I remember, the scientists have science to back up their theories.

I meant 'not entirely' random, as I'm pretty sure that given enough time, life would evolve again. It could be said that

• (a) we are (through pure random chance) found one of the iterations in which we were able to sit here and ask questions (not impossible),
  (b)that there is some reason why life evolved in terms of entropy (e.g. the conversion of entropy into 'information'),
  (c)there was another 'hand' guiding the evolution of life (one interpretation of God).

I am inclined to believe that there is nothing particularly special about the creation of life, and that there is some reason why life evolved that science can discover. However, note the use of the word believe. I am not an atheist, I am an agnostic.

 

[Baby Tea]

As a tangent, how is adding time to the timeline any different to how Creationists keep changing their story? You know, as scientists find 'missing links'. Oh yeah, now I remember, the scientists have science to back up their theories.

I meant 'not entirely' random, as I'm pretty sure that given enough time, life would evolve again. It could be said that

• (a) we are (through pure random chance) found one of the iterations in which we were able to sit here and ask questions (not impossible),
  (b)that there is some reason why life evolved in terms of entropy (e.g. the conversion of entropy into 'information'),
  (c)there was another 'hand' guiding the evolution of life (one interpretation of God).

I am inclined to believe that there is nothing particularly special about the creation of life, and that there is some reason why life evolved that science can discover. However, note the use of the word believe. I am not an atheist, I am an agnostic.

Ahh, the 'agnostic' explains a bit. Well, I wouldn't say I'm a creationist. I'm open to the idea that God used evolution. It isn't soteriological, so why get hung up on it?

I didn't bring up Abiogenesis to have a big debate on it and it's plausibility. I brought it up to show the hypocrisy of TheDean who claimed that believing in something unproven is 'amusing', when he himself believed in something unproven.

I believe life was created by God for a purpose, and whether He used evolution or the creationist theory is irrelevant to me.

 

[Robyrt]

What is your opinion on the bits taken out of the Bible by the Council of Nicaea? Along similar lines, your opinion on The Gospel of Judas.

Again, not to preempt the OP - but I've read the Gospel of Judas, Thomas and a bunch of the other rejected ones. There's a handy if outdated compendium called The Lost Books of the Bible.

For the most part, there are very good reasons why these books were rejected: they flatly contradict the authoritative sources like Mark or Romans, and since God never contradicts himself, they're right out. The Gospel of Thomas I see as the Piltdown man of New Testament studies, a desperate attempt to find hard data on a movement that they are convinced must have existed. The Gospel of Judas similarly starts from bad assumptions, only this time gives it a human factor: it's easy to sympathize with someone who's been misunderstood, or who is essentially a 20th century skeptic among 1st century fools.

I sympathize with the "Jesus never said he was divine" camp, because Jesus' behavior in this matter is bizarre and secretive. But as well as looking at all the dross and the doubts, you have to consider the existing New Testament, which has a cohesive primary message penned by several sources and sounds an awful lot like the Torah's Wisdom bits. If Jesus were so circumspect during his life, why do the Gospels depict his audience as knowing he claimed to be God?

 

[SecretTacoNinja]

I have a question:

Why do you (or if not you, a big majority of religious people) think that this God person loves you? And why do you love Him or Her? (I am from the school that thinks if there is a God it is most likely a woman, since men don't have a certain organ called a uterus).

Nor did Adam. And God created him in His own image. Unless... unless the Bible is really a big conspiracy against women... and Eve was the first human... and, and maybe it was Adam that ate of the apple and then tempted Eve! [/sarcasm]

Are you implying that the Bible was written by God, and not some ancient, God and woman fearing men?

 

[Lukeje]

I have a question:

Why do you (or if not you, a big majority of religious people) think that this God person loves you? And why do you love Him or Her? (I am from the school that thinks if there is a God it is most likely a woman, since men don't have a certain organ called a uterus).

Nor did Adam. And God created him in His own image. Unless... unless the Bible is really a big conspiracy against women... and Eve was the first human... and, and maybe it was Adam that ate of the apple and then tempted Eve! [/sarcasm]

Are you implying that the Bible was written by God, and not some ancient, God and woman fearing men?

No, I was implying that if there was a God, and if he did command for his words to be written down, then the fallability of man would lead to errors creeping in, such as the conspiracy I mentioned. (And this would be especially true if there is no God, and it is literally just a way to keep women down...)

 

[Baby Tea]

I have a question:

Why do you (or if not you, a big majority of religious people) think that this God person loves you? And why do you love Him or Her? (I am from the school that thinks if there is a God it is most likely a woman, since men don't have a certain organ called a uterus).

I recently met a guy on The Ocarina Network forums, who was very religious and had a 'relationship' with his God like a child has with it's mother, it bemused me to no end and disturbed me a little bit, I can't understand this at all.

I'm still trying to understand why a God has to be subjected to a 'gender'. I wouldn't call God a man or a woman (Unless we're discussing Jesus). And even if God WAS a gender, why he'd have to be a women simply based on the fact that women have a uterus.

Odd.

However, keep in mind this idea of a 'personal' relationship with God is VERY modern. At the risk of raising some of the ire of my fellow Christians on this forum, I might even say it's a bit of a evangelical ploy.

God has shown to love us because He (Not subjecting God to gender, I'm just following the direction of scripture) sent His son Christ to save us from sin. I love God for the same reason.

 

[Xhumed]

I have a question:

Why do you (or if not you, a big majority of religious people) think that this God person loves you? And why do you love Him or Her? (I am from the school that thinks if there is a God it is most likely a woman, since men don't have a certain organ called a uterus).

Nor did Adam. And God created him in His own image. Unless... unless the Bible is really a big conspiracy against women... and Eve was the first human... and, and maybe it was Adam that ate of the apple and then tempted Eve! [/sarcasm]

Are you implying that the Bible was written by God, and not some ancient, God and woman fearing men?

God is depicted in the OT as being jealous and vindictive... you're playing to the misogynists with that one. If God exists, I doubt It has a gender.

 

[Lukeje]

I have a question:

Why do you (or if not you, a big majority of religious people) think that this God person loves you? And why do you love Him or Her? (I am from the school that thinks if there is a God it is most likely a woman, since men don't have a certain organ called a uterus).

Nor did Adam. And God created him in His own image. Unless... unless the Bible is really a big conspiracy against women... and Eve was the first human... and, and maybe it was Adam that ate of the apple and then tempted Eve! [/sarcasm]

Are you implying that the Bible was written by God, and not some ancient, God and woman fearing men?

God is depicted in the OT as being jealous and vindictive... you're playing to the misogynists with that one. If God exists, I doubt It has a gender.

The Bible states that He created Adam in his own image.

 

[Lord_Ascendant]

do you beleive in the existance of malignant entities bent on tempting mortals like us to commit sins? (demons)

 

[Xhumed]

I have a question:

Why do you (or if not you, a big majority of religious people) think that this God person loves you? And why do you love Him or Her? (I am from the school that thinks if there is a God it is most likely a woman, since men don't have a certain organ called a uterus).

Nor did Adam. And God created him in His own image. Unless... unless the Bible is really a big conspiracy against women... and Eve was the first human... and, and maybe it was Adam that ate of the apple and then tempted Eve! [/sarcasm]

Are you implying that the Bible was written by God, and not some ancient, God and woman fearing men?

God is depicted in the OT as being jealous and vindictive... you're playing to the misogynists with that one. If God exists, I doubt It has a gender.

The Bible states that He created Adam in his own image.

One of the theological interpretations on that is that it refers to the threefold nature of man- spirit, mind and body. Also, why did you assume I meant the Christian God? Besides, that hinges on whether you believe the Bible word for word.

 

[Robyrt]

I have a question:

Why do you (or if not you, a big majority of religious people) think that this God person loves you? And why do you love Him or Her? (I am from the school that thinks if there is a God it is most likely a woman, since men don't have a certain organ called a uterus).

I recently met a guy on The Ocarina Network forums, who was very religious and had a 'relationship' with his God like a child has with it's mother, it bemused me to no end and disturbed me a little bit, I can't understand this at all.

On God's gender: As the Bible has it, God prefers to be addressed as male, probably because in ancient society men / male gods were the ones with all the power, and because Genesis has man being created first and God wanted to get across that he was created first. His messengers (angels) are also typically described as androgynous men. Of course, as he lacks a corporeal body (even the uterus), he doesn't technically count as either gender, but it's easier to think of that way.

Love has gotten a bad rap lately - it doesn't need to have sexual or Oedipal overtones, although some people will always think of it that way. (Think of slash fanfic, for instance.)

It's not difficult for a Christian like me to conclude that God loves us - he says so frequently in the Bible, he points out occasions where he did nice things for us, he puts up with all our nonsense and doesn't smite us with lightning from the sky, and generally the world is a wonderful place to live in. Jesus is probably the best example of God going to ridiculous lengths just because he likes us. (Think about it - a plan whereby God becomes human, then directs himself to sacrifice himself for other humans, then personally convinces other humans to believe in him, is not exactly the first thing that leaps to mind.)

And once your head has gotten around the weird notion of God taking a personal and benevolent interest in you, the only sane response is to love him right back. After all, you love your parents, friends, significant others - none of whom are as important to your creation and well-being as God.

 

[Lukeje]

One of the theological interpretations on that is that it refers to the threefold nature of man- spirit, mind and body. Also, why did you assume I meant the Christian God? Besides, that hinges on whether you believe the Bible word for word.

Oh, you're a sly one...

 

[Xhumed]

One of the theological interpretations on that is that it refers to the threefold nature of man- spirit, mind and body. Also, why did you assume I meant the Christian God? Besides, that hinges on whether you believe the Bible word for word.

Oh, you're a sly one...

I'll take that as a compliment.

 

[SecretTacoNinja]

I have a question:

Why do you (or if not you, a big majority of religious people) think that this God person loves you? And why do you love Him or Her? (I am from the school that thinks if there is a God it is most likely a woman, since men don't have a certain organ called a uterus).

I recently met a guy on The Ocarina Network forums, who was very religious and had a 'relationship' with his God like a child has with it's mother, it bemused me to no end and disturbed me a little bit, I can't understand this at all.

I'm still trying to understand why a God has to be subjected to a 'gender'. I wouldn't call God a man or a woman (Unless we're discussing Jesus). And even if God WAS a gender, why he'd have to be a women simply based on the fact that women have a uterus.

Odd.

However, keep in mind this idea of a 'personal' relationship with God is VERY modern. At the risk of raising some of the ire of my fellow Christians on this forum, I might even say it's a bit of a evangelical ploy.

God has shown to love us because He (Not subjecting God to gender, I'm just following the direction of scripture) sent His son Christ to save us from sin. I love God for the same reason.

I brought up the thing about God being a woman because it's impossible for a man to create life, think about it, do men grow and give birth to babies? Nah.
I hate all this stuff about God having to be a man, it would make more sense if God is a combination of both.

I think this thing about having a 'relationship' with God sounds pretty selfish, it makes people sound like they care more about pleasing the overlord in the heavens than their fellow human.

I don't like this business about Jesus dying for your sins either, what was the point of him dying? Humans still sinned and it sounds like he was just sayng that to look heroic before he died. Or am I missing a massive point?

 

[Lukeje]

One of the theological interpretations on that is that it refers to the threefold nature of man- spirit, mind and body. Also, why did you assume I meant the Christian God? Besides, that hinges on whether you believe the Bible word for word.

Oh, you're a sly one...

I'll take that as a compliment.

As you should.

 

[SecretTacoNinja]

I have a question:

Why do you (or if not you, a big majority of religious people) think that this God person loves you? And why do you love Him or Her? (I am from the school that thinks if there is a God it is most likely a woman, since men don't have a certain organ called a uterus).

I recently met a guy on The Ocarina Network forums, who was very religious and had a 'relationship' with his God like a child has with it's mother, it bemused me to no end and disturbed me a little bit, I can't understand this at all.

And once your head has gotten around the weird notion of God taking a personal and benevolent interest in you, the only sane response is to love him right back. After all, you love your parents, friends, significant others - none of whom are as important to your creation and well-being as God.

That. That is why I hate religion, you believe this God is more important to you than anything. Tell me, who raised you? No, it wasn't your God, it was your parents, your family, your friends. And who do you have as company? Not God who never speaks to you or advises you, your family, your friends, the people around you.

This is why I don't want or need a God, this is why I hate religion, this is why I don't understand you people.

Sorry if this sounds like a personal attack, I didn't want to offend you, but I couldn't let such a ridiculous statement pass.

 

[Baby Tea]

I brought up the thing about God being a woman because it's impossible for a man to create life, think about it, do men grow and give birth to babies? Nah.
I hate all this stuff about God having to be a man, it would make more sense if God is a combination of both.

I think this thing about having a 'relationship' with God sounds pretty selfish, it makes people sound like they care more about pleasing the overlord in the heavens than their fellow human.

I don't like this business about Jesus dying for your sins either, what was the point of him dying? Humans still sinned and it sounds like he was just sayng that to look heroic before he died. Or am I missing a massive point?

First, women can't create life either. Both men and woman are needed for life. Secondly, and again, I'd say God isn't either male or female, He's just God.

I also think you're misinterpreting the 'personal relationship' thing. Just because someone has this personal relationship with God, that isn't an excuse, or opening, to ignore everyone/thing else. In fact, according to scriptures, Christians should be on the fore front of social justice issues (In the positive sense) and be all up in the face of poverty, sickness relief, and so on and so forth. That isn't always the case, unfortunately, but that's a different thread.

And you're missing a massive point. The point of Christ dying was to act as a sacrifice for the judgment of God, not to remove sin. We're all sinful, yes. But, now, rather then trying to conform to the perfect law of God (Which is impossible), Christ's death opened the route of grace. So rather then face God's judgment for my sin, I'll be forgiven through Christ's sacrifice.

 

[GothmogII]

Hmm...sorry to get off a little bit. But...going with the idea that sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic (or, in this case the 'Divine').

What's the thinking on the notion that the Christian God was/is just a massively advanced alien? I mean, he certainly isn't terrestrial. I mean... -why- exactly does he have to be so...unfathomable? And further...thus being so unfathomable, how does one know he doesn't want you to find out about him? It's not like he'd tell you that straight up would he?

What was that saying:

Companions the creator seeks, not corpses, not herds and believers. Fellow creators the creator seeks--those who write new values on new tablets. Companions the creator seeks, and fellow harvesters; for everything about him is ripe for the harvest. - "Thus Spoke Zarathustra"

Great...you just made me quote Nietzsche, now I feel all...funky.

 

[Alone Disciple]

do you beleive in the existance of malignant entities bent on tempting mortals like us to commit sins? (demons)

The short answer is 'Yes'.

The longer answer may seem a bit of semantics, but let me attempt to flesh this out. A basic tennant of Christian faith is that God is omnipresent, and omniscient. But Satan, although he'd like you to believe otherwise, does indeed have limits. Satan is not omniscient nor omnipresent nor all powerful. James 4:1-10 even states that Satan will flee from us if we resist evil. But that doesn't mean Satan doesn't exude power or influence.

Eph. 6:12 states "For we are not fighting against people of flesh and blood, but against the evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against the might powers of darkness that rule this world, and against the wicked spirits in the heavenly realms."

This passage (and others) indicate that there are indeed 'spirits' outside of our physical realm that have degrees of power who use them for reasons that fly in the face of God. Now while I believe there is indeed temptation, I'd like to expand your statment of demons "bent on tempting mortals like us to commit sins." into two additional thoughts:

1) Not all sin we commit needs to be blamed upon demons. As man, we ourselves are quite capable of falling and committing sin without any help from Satan or his minions. Pure human nature allows us (even Christians) to be fallible to our own ego's, lack of patientence, our own desires, etc. I know I have God in my heart, but that doesn't mean I am not tempted or succumb to sin on a daily basis.

2) Because Satan does have limits (as stated above) and God has allowed him 'temporary' dominion over the earth, Satan does indeed instruct his minions to 'mess' with us. And that 'messing' isn't always neccesarily temptation in the way most people think. Satan's main goal is to redirect your focus off of God, demons 'run intereference' in our lives and can take on many facets: self-doubt, self-loathing, helping to instill the feelings 'that we are not worthy of God's grace', that 'Jesus can't possibly care about your problem'.

I personally believe they do prey on psyche's. That doesn't mean that even the strongest Chritsian doesn't fall nor doesn't mean the weakest willed person can never overcome. Demons tempt, they tease, they prod, the poke fun of, they make you question your self-worth, help usher in depression, etc. Basically they are there to take the focus of off God, drive a wedge between a relationship with God, and fill your mind and your heart with confusion. When a person is in a state of confusion, people tend to grasp at anything that gives them immediate and tangible comfort and satisfaction, and often that comes in the form of either sins, or a drawing away from righteousness.

In the end, they can tempt as much as they want, but our free will allows us to make the decision on whether to succumb or not and Christ always gives us a way out. We may not always like the outcome, but sometimes what seems to be the immediate price is not much when taken into the bigger picture.