SenseOfTumour said:
Well, no-one having to die sounds like a great idea to me.
I personally can't see a problem in 'be good because you should' not 'be good because someone died for you and you'll burn forever if you don't'
My motives for doing good things are because I'm eternally thankful for what Jesus did on the cross for me. To use biblical terminology, God's law was written on my heart at conversion so I do good things because I want to, not because I have to.
But no, I wasn't trying to disprove Christianity, hell, far better minds than mine have tried.
I'm still rather bothered by the idea that, if there's an after life, and I've lived a good life, I'm off to hell because I didn't believe in God, whereas some guy who goes to church and cheats on his wife, and sins in many ways, but pops in once a week for forgiveness to 'clear his account' gets in, despite leading a less 'good' life.
The guy who goes to church and cheats on his wife doesn't show himself to be a repentant christian so I would instantly doubt the reality of his conversion. Just going to church and in some cases, saying some 'magic words' to get rid of sins wont work. Jesus says one must be born again to enter the kingdom of God, not pray a prayer or go to confession.
Again, I'm going way out there with my ideas, almost putting myself in God's shoes, and someone like Bob Geldof who has been campaigning for years to help Africa, and raised millions to relieve suffering over there, I couldn't see me going 'Hi Bob' at the gates, and he's going...' um..hi?' and I'm then 'What? you don't know who I am? off to Hell with you then!'
Soren Kierkegaard defines sin very well. He says that sin is building your identity on something other than God. In regards to God sending people to hell based on their sin in whatever walk of life, Luke 17:19-31 helps explain a few things. A bit of background for this passage, rich men in Israel were very, very religious people. They would appear morally upright and would give a large amount of money to the temple. Modern do-gooders.
Luke 17
19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,[a] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'
27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'
29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'
30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'
31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "
Do you seen Kierkegaard's definition of sin there? The rich man didn't have a name. He was defined by what he was - a man who valued wealth above all else. The same goes for good works, because as I said before, the wealthy were extremely religious people and did many good things. Also it's interesting to note that despite the fact that the rich man asked for his brothers to be warned away from going to hell, he never asked to get out. He hated it in there which is why he so desperately wanted to cool his tongue with a drop of water, yet he did not ask to get out and go to heaven. As C S Lewis said, the doors of hell are locked from the inside.
