ask a cop/jailer

[Asday]

Really interesting thread ace.

What's your current view on illegal downloads, specifically albums and films that are relatively new (last 10 years)?

How does it compare to your views on legally comparable offences? No idea what's comparable, say, $x in fines for Torrenting, and $y in fines for something else?

 

[lizards]

Okay, what are officers views on semi-large groups (7-10) of kids in all black just hanging out at a park after dark? Cops always seem to think we're up to something, and just troll the area. It's honestly really annoying.

(in white to) because generaly young people standing around in a park after dark means they are up to something

 

[lizards]

Here's another one. So, this patty wagon PA system tells us to keep on the sidewalk or we'll be arrested. Cops form a line that's a good two feet back from the sidewalk. Something like that. A good fair distance. Many of us who'd brought bikes assumed that was there so that people could legally ride them (illegal to ride on the sidewalk here). Right in front of me, two guys have pulled their bikes off the sidewalk, and were starting to get on them. An officer suddenly grabbed one of them and tossed him over his shoulder. It was pretty impressive. And so suddenly that guy was being hogtied on the pavement. Second guy, the guy right behind the first guy, another officer just shoves him backwards knocking him into the crowd and almost knocking his bike into me.

Why'd that happen?

I know Seattle has had some pretty serious problems with protesters getting out of hand but I?ve never had to deal with a protest that got out of control (although, the KKK one mentioned earlier was pretty scary). If I could take a guess the PA said ?get on the sidewalk? not ?get on the sidewalk unless you?re on a bike.? Sounds like the officers got a bit amped up and carried away, at least from what you said. I would?ve said to the guys not on the sidewalk ?Hey, that means you too!? If it seemed like they heard me or understood but choose to ignore it that?s when I?d have to use force. Not sure what throwing the guy accomplishes though other than being an impressive display of force.
Got off on a tangent there; Protests are really actually legally? kind of weird ? laws that normally aren?t enforced or prosecuted are at a protest because often all it takes is one guy, or one incident to cause a full scale riot. So, police are quite a bit more touchy about what you do at a protest; because those cops want to go home when they get off work; not a hospital.

You know, you're coming really close to giving me the answer I had thought you were going to give me, but had hoped you would not. You say Seattle has had some pretty serious problems with protests getting out of hand, and yet I can relate these stories to you and have you not question ~who~ at these protests was getting out of hand.

Here's another story. I had a crush on a girl. She was really short. She was really cute. She was an activist, like me, but she was a little more passionate. Iraq War sequel talk was getting underway. Previous to this point, all anyone had focused on was the WTO. Protests tend to be clearing houses of like minded political messages, sure. But, around this time, protests seemed to be losing a cohesive single point. I stopped going to them for a while. She did not. There was one protest. It wasn't a permitted protest, and more than anything, that alone seemed to be its point. Is a city's ability to withhold a permit a de-facto quashing of the First Amendment. I didn't think that was reason enough to go to a protest, she did. So, she was at this protest, standing next to a person video taping it, and that's how I know everything I'm going to tell you. I watched the tape.

So it was late in the day and people were braking up and going home. They were on the sidewalk. Tape shows that. They were obeying police orders. Tape shows that. Suddenly, an officer lunged forward and grabbed her around the chest. She's short, so if you wanted to grab her really the only thing you could grab would be the chest. She reacted because suddenly there was a man grabbing at her. Two officers came up on either side and literally doused her with pepper spray. She was knocked down and hit her head on the curb. She was then dragged into the intersection by her hair and knelt on by two officers. With the combination of the pepper spray and the two large men kneeling on her four-foot-nothing frame, she stopped breathing mid-"arrest." She was revived at a near by ambulance, still in plastic wrist cuffs, and taken to a hospital. There she was released from custody without being charged with anything.

I came to see her about a week later and she showed me the tape. She said she wasn't going to press charges. I asked her why. She said, "Truth is stranger than fiction." I can only assume that means she was intimidated by the police in the hospital. She left town shortly there after.

Yeah, so protests getting out of control then, huh. Let's go back. WTO. Worst example from that time you can find. Number of officers reporting injuries: 56. Three quarters of the injuries were caused by police mishandling their own weapons and equipment. Of the 15 that can be blamed on protesters the most common complaint is back injury from lifting. About 100 protesters were confirmed in hospital (and that's likely an underreporting due to the people who were too scared to go to hospital), with reports from medics relating broken limbs, compound fractures of the jaw, and rubber bullets imbedded in skin. That's what happens when you shoot point blank. Not supposed to do that. At WTO, protesters where generally locked down. Physically restrained to the place they were stranding. They couldn't have attacked an officer if they had wanted to. And even with over 600 people arrested, and even with all this media coverage, the number of cases that went to trail was 14. And out of those there were only two convictions.

Now, you seem like a reasonable person, and I'm sorry if I'm coming across as attacking you. But I've never met a police officer who has acted in a logical and reasonable manner. You're the first... so you're hearing it. I can understand the idea that officers might want to keep a tight rein on protests to keep things safe. That's reasonable. Same reason we had our orange vest squads. Ok, but here's another story... you know, in case this post wasn't too long enough.

Iraq War 2 was getting underway. People from the suburbs were starting to protest. Families with kids always were at our protests, but now they were starting to be the majority. So, one protest, the cops go further. Not only do they shove the people onto the sidewalks and make random arrests, they brake the protest into about 5 groups and force each group to take different routes out of Downtown. They separated parents from their children. A lot of crying kids faces ended up plastered on the front pages. The protest community, itself, had to take charge of making sure these kids found their way home. So, in your approximation, were the officers worried that if they left the kids with the families there would be a riot?

See, I'm worried you're giving me the answer to the question "Why did that happen" I didn't want you to give. I'm relating to you what I've seen. Cops acting like thugs. Stepping way out of line. And you're telling me this was done because officers were worried about their safety? That you "know Seattle has had some pretty serious problems with protesters getting out of hand?" Again, you seem like a reasonable person, but, apparently, you didn't even know these things were common place at the time.

I'm worried that the answer to the question of "Why did that happen" is because good officers such as yourself simply assume that other members of their profession are right, and don't take the time to question what happened. I'm worried that things like this have kept happening because good officers are compliant or complacent. Am I wrong?

im going to say this up front i think protestors are such idoits that i would have to have several brain anerisms before really taking you guys seriously not only does protesting wars not work but it has NEVER worked and instead is just thier to annoy the general populace

now that that is out of the way are you joking? you arent that naive that you think some officers abuse their power and knowingly abuse it and im not even going to being with your "But I've never met a police officer who has acted in a logical and reasonable manner." statement

 

[lizards]

thats really tough man (about the 11 13 12 year old girls) really heavy stuff

 

[ace_of_something]

*sniP*
I'm worried that the answer to the question of "Why did that happen" is because good officers such as yourself simply assume that other members of their profession are right, and don't take the time to question what happened. I'm worried that things like this have kept happening because good officers are compliant or complacent. Am I wrong?
*snip*

im going to say this up front i think protestors are such idoits that i would have to have several brain anerisms before really taking you guys seriously not only does protesting wars not work but it has NEVER worked and instead is just thier to annoy the general populace

now that that is out of the way are you joking? you arent that naive that you think some officers abuse their power and knowingly abuse it and im not even going to being with your "But I've never met a police officer who has acted in a logical and reasonable manner." statement

First I'm gonna point out 'civil rights' started with prostests.

Actually, a good cop's nature should always be to question both sides of the story no matter who is involved. That has become my nature to try very hard not to make assumptions. I meant no disrespect. I've protested myself I understand the high emotions that can occur.
I am not sure what 'truth is stranger than fiction' you obviously know the girl and I don't so if you think that's what she meant I'll take your word for it. That actually infuriates me from what you described I can think of no reason outside of her saying "I'm gonna kill you!" (a threat's a threat) for that kind of conduct.

There is what is called ?the blue wall? or ?the blue line? With the things officers (both street and corrections) see, deal with, and battle every day you create an insular society because you (as a team) start to feel no one will understand what you see and do. An US v. THEM mentally can arise and nothing better galvanizes this than a protest. There are the officers on one side armed with (hopefully non lethal) weapons and a crowd of people who see you as a representation of the very thing they are protesting; it doesn?t matter if the police are involved with global trade or not; they?re part of the system. So the crowd trusts the police no more than the police trust the crowd. I?ve always fantasized that I could study riots/protests for a thesis. Many officers report others for misconduct it?s done anonymously in most departments and often on large enough departments there is a section of detectives (internal affairs) who are given the task of investigating misconduct. Or like our city a separate entity that answers to city hall (not the chief of police) investigates these things. Yes, some good officers wouldn?t report on others for misconduct or sometimes even committing crimes.

 

[mALX]

Hate to copy the idea but the asking a Christian and asking a black guy threads were neat so I figured I?d throw mine out there for you.
My qualifications for answering your questions are a BS in the topic of criminal justice, 3 1/2 years of experience on a police force, a brother who is a deputy (they are different) and I am currently working in corrections and have been for about a year and half.

To answer the first obvious question, I?m not a police officer anymore because I was injured off duty, which did not qualify me for a desk job unless you have at least 5 years of seniority? and since it caused nerve damage to my left hand I was unable to pass the yearly marksmanship test. If you want more to the story you?ll have to ask.

You can ask me questions like, things you want to know about police behavior, jail, things about the system. My knowledge from experience is strictly American, but I do have a small amount of knowledge academically of other countries (really small).

edit: and i don't think i should have to say this but... keep it civil please.

edit: got my masers in sociology and a BS in psych now.

What is the difference between a deputy and a police officer?

 

[Sh4dowSpec]

1.) What are the laws about citizens carrying personal weapons to protect themselves if necessary? Not guns, mind you, but knives and such?

2.) What is your opinion of vigilantism, both officially and unofficially?

3.) Do you find that dealing with people is easier if both parties have a sense of humor?

4.) Have you ever messed with the heads of high/stoned/drunk people?

5.) What is the strangest thing you have ever been called in on?

 

[ace_of_something]

Do you just love to eat donuts all the time?

Not all the time. I have them once in a while like anyone else (the pink ones are the best). I think I mentioned this earlier in the thread; the doughnut stereotype comes from the fact that back when stores all closed on Sundays and nothing (even in big cities) was open at night when some cops worked. Except all night coffee shops and truck stops which often served breakfast foods like doughnuts.

Really interesting thread ace.

What's your current view on illegal downloads, specifically albums and films that are relatively new (last 10 years)?

How does it compare to your views on legally comparable offences? No idea what's comparable, say, $x in fines for Torrenting, and $y in fines for something else?

The analogy of "would you go into target and just take a movie off the shelf?" No, you probably wouldn't so why is downloading it any different? You're just using a different means to do the same thing. Or the 'if i like it I'll buy it' again would you steal something and if you like it go back and pay for it?

The punishments I feel are quite severe and honestly unfair in the united states pirating/theft is a federal charge (not sure if it's a felony) considering most shoplifting charges are very minor. They're trying to use the severe punishment as a deterrent which rarely works.

what's the emergency procedure for when an inmate drops the soap in the shower?

Showers nowadays are done in individual (yet still visible) stalls. And thanks to PREA (Prison Rape Elimination Act) It is very very rare; and was never really much of a problem in jails to begin with.

What is the difference between a deputy and a police officer?

A Police Officer works for the City or the Municipality and are run by a chief or commissioner who is usually appointed by a city council or mayor; Police Officers pretty much work as exclusively as street cops and detectives in most cities.

Being a Deputy means you work for the Sheriff's department; which is run by the county and in most counties the Sheriff is an elected official; Deputies are expected to do a great deal more duties. They often provide security for the courthouses, run the jails in smaller counties, and more.

A State Trooper usually is limited to traffic laws within the state or crimes that occur on the road; however they have the broadest jurisdiction (they can arrest anywhere in the state) In most states they are also responsible for maintaining the sex offender registry. In some states they are responsible for transporting inmates (convicted criminals) from jail to prison or one jail to another. Pretty much every state appoints the leader of the trooper differently and gives him/her a different title (For example ours is called Colonel Trooper)

 

[Chester41585]

I'm familiar with NCIC, FCIC, and DAVID (Florida). However, I've had a recent experience that brought up a question about update times and such concerning information databases.

I had taken a Driver's Ed course about a year ago for a minor traffic citation. Recently, I was pulled over for failure to maintain single lane (the road was under construction and I was in violation on a steep turn) and the Deputy asked (in a "what were you thinking?" tone) if I was familiar with traffic laws, etc.

Apparently, up until at least a week before the traffic stop, the class had not been updated on my records, nor had the Clerk of Courts shown that the citation had been lawfully corrected.
This, as a result, showed numerous other fines and suspensions on my driver's history (fortunately the Deputy was willing to discuss this with me). This was all, of course, cleared up. But, imagine if I had been pulled over a week or month before!

Does it usually take a while for information like Driver's Correction courses and other processes like that to update on Information Databases, or should that stuff be pretty much instantaneous?

 

[Bat Vader]

I haven't read the rest of the forum so I wish to apologize in advance if I ask the same questions twice. 1.) How does a police officer become a sergeant or lieutenant? 2.) Does that carry over into the armed forces also vice versa?

3.) How do private Investigators and Detectives differ. I know one is self employed and do Private Investigators fall under being a vigilante?

 

[MoganFreeman]

How exactly does "probable cause" work in regards to searching a car you've pulled over?

 

[mALX]

Do you just love to eat donuts all the time?

Not all the time. I have them once in a while like anyone else (the pink ones are the best). I think I mentioned this earlier in the thread; the doughnut stereotype comes from the fact that back when stores all closed on Sundays and nothing (even in big cities) was open at night when some cops worked. Except all night coffee shops and truck stops which often served breakfast foods like doughnuts.

Really interesting thread ace.

What's your current view on illegal downloads, specifically albums and films that are relatively new (last 10 years)?

How does it compare to your views on legally comparable offences? No idea what's comparable, say, $x in fines for Torrenting, and $y in fines for something else?

The analogy of "would you go into target and just take a movie off the shelf?" No, you probably wouldn't so why is downloading it any different? You're just using a different means to do the same thing. Or the 'if i like it I'll buy it' again would you steal something and if you like it go back and pay for it?

The punishments I feel are quite severe and honestly unfair in the united states pirating/theft is a federal charge (not sure if it's a felony) considering most shoplifting charges are very minor. They're trying to use the severe punishment as a deterrent which rarely works.

what's the emergency procedure for when an inmate drops the soap in the shower?

Showers nowadays are done in individual (yet still visible) stalls. And thanks to PREA (Prison Rape Elimination Act) It is very very rare; and was never really much of a problem in jails to begin with.

What is the difference between a deputy and a police officer?

A Police Officer works for the City or the Municipality and are run by a chief or commissioner who is usually appointed by a city council or mayor; Police Officers pretty much work as exclusively as street cops and detectives in most cities.

Being a Deputy means you work for the Sheriff's department; which is run by the county and in most counties the Sheriff is an elected official; Deputies are expected to do a great deal more duties. They often provide security for the courthouses, run the jails in smaller counties, and more.

A State Trooper usually is limited to traffic laws within the state or crimes that occur on the road; however they have the broadest jurisdiction (they can arrest anywhere in the state) In most states they are also responsible for maintaining the sex offender registry. In some states they are responsible for transporting inmates (convicted criminals) from jail to prison or one jail to another. Pretty much every state appoints the leader of the trooper differently and gives him/her a different title (For example ours is called Colonel Trooper)

I never knew that there was a difference! Thank you!

 

[Peach_hat]

This is actually incredibly interesting.

Well done random cop man.

 

[Death916]

if you see someone that jus looked like they were high on weed would u search them or give them a hard time? or just go on. also what if you saw them smoking it

 

[mALX]

Hate to copy the idea but the asking a Christian and asking a black guy threads were neat so I figured I?d throw mine out there for you.
My qualifications for answering your questions are a BS in the topic of criminal justice, 3 1/2 years of experience on a police force, a brother who is a deputy (they are different) and I am currently working in corrections and have been for about a year and half.

To answer the first obvious question, I?m not a police officer anymore because I was injured off duty, which did not qualify me for a desk job unless you have at least 5 years of seniority? and since it caused nerve damage to my left hand I was unable to pass the yearly marksmanship test. If you want more to the story you?ll have to ask.

You can ask me questions like, things you want to know about police behavior, jail, things about the system. My knowledge from experience is strictly American, but I do have a small amount of knowledge academically of other countries (really small).

edit: and i don't think i should have to say this but... keep it civil please.

edit: got my masers in sociology and a BS in psych now.

Really sorry to hear about the four Officers down last night. That was the first time I have ever seen citizens crying for the Officers. The other Police on the scene did everything they could to save their men, but were unable to. The life support may be shut off on the last one, too, from what I heard this morning. My condolences to you.

 

[Mr_spamamam]

if someone broke into my house, and i hid behind a door and cracked them in the back of the skull with a hammer as they went past is that assault or self defence? since im from england it might be differently legislated, but just to get a general idea. cheers mate

 

[ace_of_something]

Does it usually take a while for information like Driver's Correction courses and other processes like that to update on Information Databases, or should that stuff be pretty much instantaneous?

??? Every state uses different computer/paper database systems; I don't work for the DMV but my brother is Deputy and teaches one of those better driver classes, If I recall It updates 'the next day' so if you finish the class on Tuesday then by Wednesday it should be updated. My guess is Florida is still using a paper or partial paper system.

I haven't read the rest of the forum so I wish to apologize in advance if I ask the same questions twice. 1.) How does a police officer become a sergeant or lieutenant? 2.) Does that carry over into the armed forces also vice versa?

3.) How do private Investigators and Detectives differ. I know one is self employed and do Private Investigators fall under being a vigilante?

To get promoted usually you have to take a written/oral test and have so many years of service. For example in this area it goes Corporal<Sergeant<Lieutenant<Captain. You cannot be promoted to Corporal until you have over one year of service (the academy doesn't count) You cannot be promoted to Sergeant until you've been a Corporal for at least 3 years and so on. The tests are usually about policy and procedure as well as some basic maneuvers. Most departments give you 'bonus points' for having been in armed services. So on the test if you were in the military you might get an extra 5%. Not sure about vise-versa but I doubt it. I was a Corporal (and am again in the Jail).

Other differences are that Detectives investigate crimes as soon as they happen a P.I. can only if the 'victim' or the 'victim's kin' hires them. Police also only investigate CRIMES. PIs (my uncle is a PI and has been for 12 years) can also investigate civil things like 'is my wife cheating on me?", doing research on a person you sued to find how much money they had, or an adopted kid asking "who are my biological parents?" at all common. It's not vigilantism because you have to get a license and take a rather difficult test to be allowed to be a PI in every state (as far as I know).

How exactly does "probable cause" work in regards to searching a car you've pulled over?

All you have to do is something 'suspicious' or 'irregular'. Which can be, in all honesty, almost anything. I've heard "he seemed nervous" hold up in court.

if someone broke into my house, and i hid behind a door and cracked them in the back of the skull with a hammer as they went past is that assault or self defence? since im from england it might be differently legislated, but just to get a general idea. cheers mate

If someone Breaks into your house it is self defense as long as you can argue you feared for your life (which is pretty easy) it's legal to kill them. That being said, hitting someone from behind usually makes that argument a little more difficult to win. Either way though you're going to sit in jail until your trial unless you have a lot of money to pay a bond.

 

[ace_of_something]

if you see someone that jus looked like they were high on weed would u search them or give them a hard time? or just go on. also what if you saw them smoking it

They looked like it? Well if they're just eating a burger king probably not thought I might see what car they got into and follow it for a few blocks (people who are high rarely drive well). If I saw them? Well they're going to be searched shortly thereafter; and technically I could give them a minor drug charge and likely would.

I used to work vice and have seen that every illegal drug even weed is a detrament to the community as a whole. Yes, it's your body but... what about your sibling that sees you and doesn't handle the weed as well as you do later in life and doesn't function as an adult? Or the dealer's dealer's dealer you bought from who has a cache of illegal weapons he also buys and sells using your money? what about the mother who decides weed is more important than feeding her children? what about the man who stops fixing his house cuz he doesn't care; which shows thugs that 'no one cares' about this neighborhood and moves in? It's not as obviously detrimental but it still is.