Ask a gun owner something.

[Mathurin]

Assault rifles
Note this category is assault _rifle_ which is a real term based on actual qualifications and not appearance
To be an assault rifle the firearm must be a mid sized rifle firing a medium power cartridge, and must be select fire, meaning it must have a switch upon it which lets the user choose between firing single shots per trigger pull, or multiple shots per trigger pull.

The main badassery in assault rifles revolves around bullpup rifles.
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as41-e.htm
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as20-e.htm
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as22-e.htm

This one is multiple levels of awesome
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as40-e.htm
Anybody who has played the original farcry will recognize this gun, unfortunately it is a dead prototype, probably not going anywhere.

another pretty much dead prototype which is badass
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as42-e.htm
The HK G11 is really nifty, shoots caseless ammunition, meaning no empties have to eject.
Those who have seen the movie "Demolition man" will recognize this rifle, its not actually a magnetic accelerator gun.


While we are in the realm of oddball prototypes, the pederson device
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedersen_device

Basically an insert to turn a full power bolt action rifle (good for long range firefights) into a low power semi-auto rifle.
cool idea, but the complexity of the mechanism made it a bad idea, by the time war had started again manufacturing had bypassed the idea, submachine guns were easy and light, and most soldiers carried a pistol anyway, with the advent of modern assault rifles the idea is totally dead.

Still, cool idea.
If I make a billion dollars I might have one custom made just for the hell of it.


Thats all the badassery I can think of right now

 

[Mathurin]

Powerful badass + badass new design
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg186-e.htm
A lower chamber firing revolver that utilizes the previous round to rotate the cylinder, making it semi-automaic
If you have seen "gamer" this is the pistol he uses.If you have seen the serenity posters its what river holds.
New design is obvious
Powerful is because it come in the .454 casull, and to get more powerful than that you must move to custom or "wildcat" calibers, many revolvers chamber this round.
Yes, its more powerful than a .44 magnum, also known as the "dirty harry" gun

used the mateba in ghost in the shell too

I knew they used an underbarrel revolver, but wasnt sure if it was a mateba or just some kind of idea cooked up by the writers/animators, havent seen that one in a while.

 

[Pyro Paul]

No, its not very easy at all, in a way its like a car, if you dont know what your doing you can totally screw things up. They do not have a simple point and click interface


Though most of the time in the movies the gun they pick up is from someone who has already prepared it for them to fire, or someone who was killed while firing. In those instances yes, it is point and click (though your accuracy will probably suck) at least until you run out of ammo and have to reload.

i acctually find this quiet intresting because a Lot of guns DO have very basic 'point and click interface methods'. I mean a majority of owned guns are manual action weapons (Pump, Lever, and Bolt actions) which only require you to enter the proper ammunition, cycle the action, and pull the trigger.

weapons with more complex actions such as recoil operation or automatic operation will carry a few complexities, however only a short familurazation with the weapon can make you proficent in reliably reloading and firing the weapon.


in all honosty, you can learn how to use a weapon in a matter of minutes. from reloading, to shooting, to aiming. it isn't exactly all that complex. what makes it complex is learning how to ensure that the weapon always fires, always cycles, and always is accurate.

i can teach you how to use an M-16 in roughly 20 minutes, reload, aim, and fire. however, how to field strip an M-16 to unjam the weapon, reassamble it, load a fresh mag, then using only iron sites to hit a target 500 meters away in under 6 minutes... that takes a bit more time to learn.

 

[The Austin]

How does one commit murder with a gun, without getting caught?

First, point the gun to you head, then, pull the trigger.

Let me know when you've done that and I'll let you know what's next.

 

[Wadders]

What shotgun would you advise a first time buyer to get? Bearing in mind that I want a 12 bore over and under for clay and game shooting, and probably cant spend more than £700 ($1000 approximately)

 

[teisjm]

Can you hold your gun sideways out of a moving Cadillacs window and still hit the old lady across the street?

Holding a gun sideways is a silly and inaccurate method of firing a firearm.
I cannot speak to anyone's accuracy in such a situation, I have never done anything similar to that.

Shooting at old ladies who are not threatening your life is illegal and immoral

You do realize that they might be witches right? She could turn you into a newt in the blink of an eye.

 

[Lim3]

Claps to Mathurin, he has does excessively well not getting riled up by many of the stupid questions.

Seriously, I've seen many threads like this descend into petty arguments, you've done well to deflect jokes/insults with jokes/insults.

 

[Pyro Paul]

Assault rifles
Note this category is assault _rifle_ which is a real term based on actual qualifications and not appearance
To be an assault rifle the firearm must be a mid sized rifle firing a medium power cartridge, and must be select fire, meaning it must have a switch upon it which lets the user choose between firing single shots per trigger pull, or multiple shots per trigger pull.

The main badassery in assault rifles revolves around bullpup rifles.
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as41-e.htm
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as20-e.htm
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as22-e.htm

this makes me completely question the validity of everything you've said.

the F-2000?
the SA-80?

badass? honostly?

i feel like your going to next say a Derringer pistol is 'Bad ass'...

further more 'Assault Rifle' is any Rifle designed for the purpouse of Assaulting a Position. the cartrage size, caliber, magazine, or select fire options acctually have nothing to do with the weapons designation... the definition you've described, in all honosty, is mearly an additional moniker added by the general public not by any notable military orginization or fire arm producer.

to be truthful... when you consider the weapon when it was deployed by the military and which roles it fufilled the M-14 is an Assault rifle while the M-16a2 isn't an assault rifle.

 

[clutch-monkey]

M14 is more a battle rifle imo
assault rifles are characterised by a mid size round, pioneered by the stg44 etc etc

Powerful badass + badass new design
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg186-e.htm
A lower chamber firing revolver that utilizes the previous round to rotate the cylinder, making it semi-automaic
If you have seen "gamer" this is the pistol he uses.If you have seen the serenity posters its what river holds.
New design is obvious
Powerful is because it come in the .454 casull, and to get more powerful than that you must move to custom or "wildcat" calibers, many revolvers chamber this round.
Yes, its more powerful than a .44 magnum, also known as the "dirty harry" gun

used the mateba in ghost in the shell too

I knew they used an underbarrel revolver, but wasnt sure if it was a mateba or just some kind of idea cooked up by the writers/animators, havent seen that one in a while.

yeah they actually refer to it as a mateba when she chides him for still using a revolver haha.

also FYI on the G11 and caseless ammunition in general, a reason it hasn't had a resurgence or further development is due to storage and transportation regulations; whereas a full magazine of 5.56mm nato, each bullet is considered individually, and thus under more lax transportation regs, a magazine of caseless ammunition must necesarily be viewed as a whole, a sum of all the rounds given that they can gangfire easier or some shit. bumps it up into a different class iirc for storage and transportation. just something of interest

 

[Mathurin]

No, its not very easy at all, in a way its like a car, if you dont know what your doing you can totally screw things up. They do not have a simple point and click interface


Though most of the time in the movies the gun they pick up is from someone who has already prepared it for them to fire, or someone who was killed while firing. In those instances yes, it is point and click (though your accuracy will probably suck) at least until you run out of ammo and have to reload.

i acctually find this quiet intresting because a Lot of guns DO have very basic 'point and click interface methods'. I mean a majority of owned guns are manual action weapons (Pump, Lever, and Bolt actions) which only require you to enter the proper ammunition, cycle the action, and pull the trigger.

weapons with more complex actions such as recoil operation or automatic operation will carry a few complexities, however only a short familurazation with the weapon can make you proficent in reliably reloading and firing the weapon.


in all honosty, you can learn how to use a weapon in a matter of minutes. from reloading, to shooting, to aiming. it isn't exactly all that complex. what makes it complex is learning how to ensure that the weapon always fires, always cycles, and always is accurate.

i can teach you how to use an M-16 in roughly 20 minutes, reload, aim, and fire. however, how to field strip an M-16 to unjam the weapon, reassamble it, load a fresh mag, then using only iron sites to hit a target 500 meters away in under 6 minutes... that takes a bit more time to learn.

An idiot can be taught the rudiments, but an idiot cant simply pick it off a corpse and be able to properly shoot it. Its not that intuitive.
And if we are talking about a post apocolyptic situation a person should be versed in a wide variety of firearm types, not a monkey see monkey do thing.

The rudiments are really just the beginning, as you say

 

[Mathurin]

What shotgun would you advise a first time buyer to get? Bearing in mind that I want a 12 bore over and under for clay and game shooting, and probably cant spend more than £700 ($1000 approximately)

I am not a clays shooter, personally I think the whole uber expensive over-under shotgun thing is sorta like the prada purse thing, more for show than for actual use.

If I were you I would buy a remington 870 and use the remaining 500 or so for ammunition and practice. But confess I cant confirm my opinion with complete confidence.

 

[Mathurin]

Assault rifles
Note this category is assault _rifle_ which is a real term based on actual qualifications and not appearance
To be an assault rifle the firearm must be a mid sized rifle firing a medium power cartridge, and must be select fire, meaning it must have a switch upon it which lets the user choose between firing single shots per trigger pull, or multiple shots per trigger pull.

The main badassery in assault rifles revolves around bullpup rifles.
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as41-e.htm
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as20-e.htm
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as22-e.htm

this makes me completely question the validity of everything you've said.

the F-2000?
the SA-80?

badass? honostly?

i feel like your going to next say a Derringer pistol is 'Bad ass'...

further more 'Assault Rifle' is any Rifle designed for the purpouse of Assaulting a Position. the cartrage size, caliber, magazine, or select fire options acctually have nothing to do with the weapons designation... the definition you've described, in all honosty, is mearly an additional moniker added by the general public not by any notable military orginization or fire arm producer.

to be truthful... when you consider the weapon when it was deployed by the military and which roles it fufilled the M-14 is an Assault rifle while the M-16a2 isn't an assault rifle.

The F2000 is badass because it uses the exact same magazines as an M-16, but is a better rifle, mechanically speaking.
The SA-80 apparently has some reliability issues, but still looks pretty cool so I included it.



M-14 is a rifle, or a battlerifle if you use the modern monikor, an assault rifle fires a medium power round and is supposed to be the happy medium between a submachine gun (controllable but low powered) and a full powered rifle (long range, but difficult to control in full auto) hence it can shift for both roles as needed, but doesnt do either job as well.

I like the M-14, but, I understand that a lower power round was necessary so that basic military soldiers could actually control the recoil in full auto.
There is a reason why the people who use the M-14 in modern combat are generally elite troops, its got a hell of a kick and most people cant control it.

By your definition every rifle ever made is an assault rifle, except maybe sniper and anti-tank rifles. Its overly broad, and really, where do you get this idea that M-16s were not designed for "assaulting a position"

More likely you are an individual who dislikes the .223 round, which I understand and which you may do all you like, but ignoring definitions is not a good way to do it.

 

[clutch-monkey]

What shotgun would you advise a first time buyer to get? Bearing in mind that I want a 12 bore over and under for clay and game shooting, and probably cant spend more than £700 ($1000 approximately)

I am not a clays shooter, personally I think the whole uber expensive over-under shotgun thing is sorta like the prada purse thing, more for show than for actual use.

If I were you I would buy a remington 870 and use the remaining 500 or so for ammunition and practice. But confess I cant confirm my opinion with complete confidence.

my miroku MK70 under and over was roughly that price new. would definately reccomend an U/O. chokes can be setup for consecutive shots, very very easy to clean, less parts etc etc.
most comps people will have U/O, definately go that route if you just want to bust clays.

M-14 is a rifle, or a battlerifle if you use the modern monikor,

lol glad someone else sees it the way i do, that top ten assault rifles on history channel made me yell at the TV haha.

 

[Pyro Paul]

The F2000 is badass because it uses the exact same magazines as an M-16, but is a better rifle, mechanically speaking.
The SA-80 apparently has some reliability issues, but still looks pretty cool so I included it.

the F2000 being a better rifle is arguable and ultimatly comes down to personal prefrence. however asthetics a bad ass gun does not make. It ejecting hot brass right next to your grip hand does not make for a good day. ontop of this it is usually not as accurate and hits not as Hard as your standard M-16 service rifle. the only thing that makes up for this is an onboard computer/range finder/fire assist. but removing the scope also removes this computer...

M-14 is a rifle, or a battlerifle if you use the modern monikor, an assault rifle fires a medium power round and is supposed to be the happy medium between a submachine gun (controllable but low powered) and a full powered rifle (long range, but difficult to control in full auto) hence it can shift for both roles as needed, but doesnt do either job as well.

I like the M-14, but, I understand that a lower power round was necessary so that basic military soldiers could actually control the recoil in full auto.
There is a reason why the people who use the M-14 in modern combat are generally elite troops, its got a hell of a kick and most people cant control it.

By your definition every rifle ever made is an assault rifle, except maybe sniper and anti-tank rifles. Its overly broad, and really, where do you get this idea that M-16s were not designed for "assaulting a position"

More likely you are an individual who dislikes the .223 round, which I understand and which you may do all you like, but ignoring definitions is not a good way to do it.

Because the M-14 is an Assault Rifle.

the US military Squad role composition was divided as such
Squad Leader- M1 Carbine, Thompsons SMG
Fire Team leader- M14
Rifleman- M14
Assault - M14
Grenadier- M79/M1 Granad+Rifle grenades, M1 Carbine.
Support - BAR/M60
Designated Marksman - Springfield 1903

the M-14 was the Rifle designated for Assault troops and Riflemen.


after the M-16 became common place

Squad Leader- M16a2
Fire Team Leader- m16a2
Rifleman- M16a2
Assault- M16a3
Grenadier- M16a2 + m203 underslung/M79
Support- M60/M249/M16a3
Marksman - M16a2/M-14

the M-16 isn't an 'Assault rifle' instead a 'Combat Rifle' as it fufilled multipule purpouses from Fire support, to Assault, to Rifleman, and even Marksman. almost Every one in the squad had an M-16, even in modern force somposition the M-16 class dominates US military armerment with the M4, M4SPR, M16a4, M4/M16+M203...

 

[Pyro Paul]

More likely you are an individual who dislikes the .223 round, which I understand and which you may do all you like, but ignoring definitions is not a good way to do it.

i'm not ignoring the defintion it because 'Assault Rifle' is not a definition.

i would love to see you try and find the word 'Assault Rifle' in any Military guide or Manufacteror service manual for any of the weapons you consider an 'Assault Rifle'.

 

[Mathurin]

The F2000 is badass because it uses the exact same magazines as an M-16, but is a better rifle, mechanically speaking.
The SA-80 apparently has some reliability issues, but still looks pretty cool so I included it.

the F2000 being a better rifle is arguable and ultimatly comes down to personal prefrence. however asthetics a bad ass gun does not make. It ejecting hot brass right next to your grip hand does not make for a good day. ontop of this it is usually not as accurate and hits not as Hard as your standard M-16 service rifle. the only thing that makes up for this is an onboard computer/range finder/fire assist. but removing the scope also removes this computer...

I was asked about the most badass _looking_ firearms.


Please tell me how the M-16 magically takes the exact same round yet hits harder

M-14 is a rifle, or a battlerifle if you use the modern monikor, an assault rifle fires a medium power round and is supposed to be the happy medium between a submachine gun (controllable but low powered) and a full powered rifle (long range, but difficult to control in full auto) hence it can shift for both roles as needed, but doesnt do either job as well.

I like the M-14, but, I understand that a lower power round was necessary so that basic military soldiers could actually control the recoil in full auto.
There is a reason why the people who use the M-14 in modern combat are generally elite troops, its got a hell of a kick and most people cant control it.

By your definition every rifle ever made is an assault rifle, except maybe sniper and anti-tank rifles. Its overly broad, and really, where do you get this idea that M-16s were not designed for "assaulting a position"

More likely you are an individual who dislikes the .223 round, which I understand and which you may do all you like, but ignoring definitions is not a good way to do it.

Because the M-14 is an Assault Rifle.

the US military Squad role composition was divided as such
Squad Leader- M1 Carbine, Thompsons SMG
Fire Team leader- M14
Rifleman- M14
Assault - M14
Grenadier- M79/M1 Granad+Rifle grenades, M1 Carbine.
Support - BAR/M60
Designated Marksman - Springfield 1903

the M-14 was the Rifle designated for Assault troops and Riflemen.

Which says nothing about design.
Designation is determined after design is complete and the firearm is ready.

Regardless, the M14 was considered an assault rifle before US recognized the value of a medium power rifle, the higher ranks were populated with WWI soldiers who were stuck in the past, stuck on the idea of full powered rifles with wooden stocks that looked good on the parade ground (amusingly most pre-WWII militarys had the same problem with their uniforms)

after the M-16 became common place

Squad Leader- M16a2
Fire Team Leader- m16a2
Rifleman- M16a2
Assault- M16a3
Grenadier- M16a2 + m203 underslung/M79
Support- M60/M249/M16a3
Marksman - M16a2/M-14

the M-16 isn't an 'Assault rifle' instead a 'Combat Rifle' as it fufilled multipule purpouses from Fire support, to Assault, to Rifleman, and even Marksman. almost Every one in the squad had an M-16, even in modern force somposition the M-16 class dominates US military armerment with the M4, M4SPR, M16a4, M4/M16+M203...

So, by your above description an M16 can be called an assault rifle because its designated for an assult role

More likely you are an individual who dislikes the .223 round, which I understand and which you may do all you like, but ignoring definitions is not a good way to do it.

i'm not ignoring the defintion it because 'Assault Rifle' is not a definition.

i would love to see you try and find the word 'Assault Rifle' in any Military guide or Manufacteror service manual for any of the weapons you consider an 'Assault Rifle'.

If you look at wikis sources
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle
You find them referencing special forces handbooks for the definition of assault rifle.

However, assuming uyou are right, if the manuals dont refer to a thompson as a submachine gun or to the FN 249 as a light machine gun, does that change what they are?




You were probably in the military at some point werent you?
Not too recent, most likely a career man, now retired.

 

[Mr. Gency]

If you got it for security did you hear of brinks?....

Yeah I have, the cops are 30 mins away, brinks wont do anything for me.
Out here in the woods we have dogs and guns, and amazingly little crime.

Maybe there is little crime because of the guns, dogs, etc.

 

[Pyro Paul]

Please tell me how the M-16 magically takes the exact same round yet hits harder

i'm sure you're familure with muzzle velocity? higher MV = more energy on impact = more damage. the F-200 has a 400mm Barrel, the M-16 has a 500mm barrel. longer barrel = higher MV.

simple as that.

Which says nothing about design.
Designation is determined after design is complete and the firearm is ready.

Regardless, the M14 was considered an assault rifle before US recognized the value of a medium power rifle, the higher ranks were populated with WWI soldiers who were stuck in the past, stuck on the idea of full powered rifles with wooden stocks that looked good on the parade ground (amusingly most pre-WWII militarys had the same problem with their uniforms)

except the M-14 was designed specifically to be capable of aiding in an Assault. traditionally, Assault troops where armed with short range weapons such as the Sub Machine gun while riflemen where armed with the long range bolt action rifles such as the Kar98, SMLE, and Springfield 1903. with the advent of the Semi-automatic function in the M1 Garand, Riflemen could then too aid an assault as they had compherable rate of fire which could supress enemy actions.

the M-14 expanded on this giving a larger 20 round removable magazine making it a powerful rifle fully capable to aid in assault manuvers while preserving the duties of the 'Rifleman' with marginal accuracy and engagement patterns in 600+ meter engagement ranges.

So, by your above description an M16 can be called an assault rifle because its designated for an assult role

but the M-16 wasn't designed to be an assault rifle. it was designed to be a combat rifle. to act as a multi-role weapon and wholey eliminate the need for individual Infantry Support, Assault, SMG, and secondary weapons, instead creating a single standardized fire arm.

If you look at wikis sources
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle
You find them referencing special forces handbooks for the definition of assault rifle.

acctually that is a definition of the Avtomat Kalashnikova, which quiet litterally translates out to 'Assault Rifle of Kalashnikova'. i know every one at some point tries to refrence this one instance of one guy writing 'hey assault rifle' in an obscure Army Intelegence book which coincidently appears right before the place it was stored was destroyed by nixon... but that doesn't exactly make it immutable fact.

i personally would of accepted Strumgewehr as it litterally translates out to 'Assault Rifle' but thats just me.

However, assuming uyou are right, if the manuals dont refer to a thompson as a submachine gun or to the FN 249 as a light machine gun, does that change what they are?

yes... it can change what they are, or rather how we view them.
case in point, the BAR.

the BAR shares more parrallels with Assault Rifles than they do with Infantry Support weapons like the MG42, the M-60, or the M249... but it is still marked as the 'Infantry Support weapon' and thus we view and judge the BAR on that idea.

if we marked it as the Assault rifle then our view on its performance and its capability greatly change.

 

[Ziadaine_v1legacy]

He's a question. Why did you make a topic where most American User's Families have guns to begin with? I'm sorry but has OT really just become the "Ask a (x) Owner Something" Thread?

To Un-Spam: your opinion on the MP44, Was it worthless or a major breakthrough.

 

[jubosu]

I am a gun enthusiast of my own sort.
I hunt,shoot targets, and the like.
I would just like to know your opinion.
Is there a feasible reason to own a Desert Eagle?