Ask a Halo fanboy ANYTHING! PART 2!

[Jabberwock xeno]

snip

I understand your furstation.

While I also agree that the canon breaks that reach had did show... lack of restraint on Bungies part (quite unlike them, actually), there not much we as a community can do other than peice it together based on the explanation in the jorunal.

Your first two points are two of the 3 things not explained to a sastifacotry point in the journal, I agree.

I am also rather preplexed at those two, obvious mistakes on Bungies part, but theres nothing we can do about it, maybe it will be addressed in the CE remake?

Cortana's situation is more understandable: Cortana was split in two parts, one with John, one with halesly.

The Journal explains this, and though I undertsnad that it just seems like a big "HERES HOW ALL OF THIS MAKES SENSE" book, it's not.

Most of it actually gives us insight into haleslys life, only small part of it adresses the canon breaks.

Let's keep further discussion of this to PMs, okay? I don't want the whole treAd to be clogged up about reach's retcons.

 

[WOPR]

*snip*

Okay I'll make mine simple

Why are most of the fanboys such uber pricks that if you so much as say something BAD about their game they'll go off on you and rant about how you have no taste in a similar way a catholic would act if you told them "god is a lie" or a little kid if you told them "santa isn't real"

second one:
why do you like halo..?
I've never understood the appeal personally and have yet to have anyone tell me how regenerating health online is a GOOD idea

just throwing it out there

and sorry if it's been asked already

also: WHAT THE HECK CAPTCHA?! I don't want to type out "shoot her"

 

[Zhukov]

Are you aware that inviting me to ask you "ANYTHING" is basically like challenging me to think of a question you won't want to answer?

 

[Jabberwock xeno]

what is in your opinion the worst and best game in the series?

I posted a chart on the 1st page about it.

I don't like how people overate Halo to the point it makes no sense.
Why do they do that?
I have seen fans thinking Masterchief can match superman...

Overate? In what sense?

Master cheif vs. superman?

Not even the worst Halo fan is THAT stupid. XD

*snip*

Okay I'll make mine simple

Why are most of the fanboys such uber pricks that if you so much as say something BAD about their game they'll go off on you and rant about how you have no taste in a similar way a catholic would act if you told them "god is a lie" or a little kid if you told them "santa isn't real"

second one:
why do you like halo..?
I've never understood the appeal personally and have yet to have anyone tell me how regenerating health online is a GOOD idea

just throwing it out there

and sorry if it's been asked already

also: WHAT THE HECK CAPTCHA?! I don't want to type out "shoot her"

As I explained around 5 times in the answered questions section HINT, Those aren't Halo fans.

They go to whatever game is uber popular at the time, when Modern warefare came out, 99% of them left Halo 3 Matchmaking, and went to COD. I haven't met a single person like that in MM in 3 years.

Now, there has been a recent influx of anti-COD people on the Bungie fourms, but that died down a few months after black ops.

I think it's just some people's way of coping with the fact that halo just ins't the most popular game out there any more.

I like Halo for 4 reasons:

- I find the game really fun (I have never had so much "HOLY CRAP DID YOU JUST SEE WHAT I DID!" moments as in halo 2)

- Bungie is on valve tier as far as how they care for their products, and care and interact with there fans more than ANY other dev, and THAT I will defend.

- Halo has a rich universe and backstory.

- Halo has some of the best user content creation systems for a console game, THE best for a console FPS.

 

[ZeroMachine]

snip

Don't reply to him any more, we answered his question, any further comments will just inflame the situation.

Wasn't gonna after my last one. Don't worry.

Gonna spoiler this one since it'll be long, and I'll counter all your points with very little "it's retconning!"

My replies are in bold. And for the record, a lot of your reasoning is simply you not understanding what happened (and I'm not saying that to be an ass, it's just the truth).

Also... Halsey's Journal is 100% not contradictory, and it retconned nothing. It explained things. Things we couldn't have known that simply seem like retcons. I get the vibe that you never read it.

Spoiler: Holy crap this will be long...

One good question: Why is this new thread necessary? Couldn't you have just bumped up the old one?

Anyone who cares already has their mind made up; anyone who was going to blame DNF's failure on Halo already has. This is kind of pointless.

Also, Reach totally broke canon. FLAME SHIELD ACTIVATE! (I'm not answering any arguments against that because I have looked and studied Reach and the original trilogy and it did. Go back and look.)

As someone who knows the Halo universe like the back of my hand... it only did a little bit, and it's easily explainable.

But I'm not going to assume we're thinking about the same things. Tell me how you think it broke canon.

And if you really refuse to answer any arguments against it, then what's the point of stating it? It just makes you sound like you're blowing it out your ass.

Back up your argument, or don't argue at all.

I did back up my argument once, several times in fact. Entire pages in MS Word on a thread a few months ago, several times, and people brought the same arguments and same excuses back against when I clearly cited examples from the books (which were considered canon at one point) and the first few games. If I could find it, I'd copy some of my posts back here. But that thread is (hopefully) long dead. Their counterpoints were almost completely from Halsey's Journal, which in itself seems to be one big (failed) retcon for everything and was only available through some special edition which I did not care to pay for. Once a canon is set, I don't believe you should try and break it so much. For gameplay, a small breach of canon is fine, but not one so massive.

The books are still canon.
Note that at this moment, the only resource available to me is the internet. Which is a massive wealth of information but I still would rather have the books and games near me to find something specific. Also note that I might have to stop mid-typing and post this so it doesn't get lost, so if you read this and it's only half done, I'm getting back to it.

Alright. Now that's settled, let's go!

Firstly, the Spartan III's. They were introduced in Ghosts of Onyx, a cheaper version of the Spartan II's who were made without Halsey's knowledge. She did not know about them until her and Kelly crash landed on the planet Onyx. How come in Reach she seems to be their creator? How come Jorge, a Spartan II never mentioned out of the 30-something that finished training successfully, calls her "mum"? How can she possibly know about these Spartan III's on Reach when Ghosts of Onyx - whose events occur during the second game - clearly states her knowledge of them as nonexistent?

It never, ever, ever made it seem like she was their creator. In her journal, she is INCREDIBLY confused about them, and very angry. She doesn't know they're Spartan III's. Just that they aren't "her" Spartans. As for Jorge, they never named or showed all of the 33 surviving Spartan II's. It's just that simple: he was always there. And it is implied that he had a somewhat personal relationship with Halsey. Hence "mum".

Secondly, the Autumn. It was already in space. For that matter, it was already leaving Reach when a distress call came back to them for help. It's also mentioned somewhere in either The Fall of Reach or First Strike that it's very hard for ships the size of the Autumn to go into the atmosphere of a planet and be able to come back out of it. The Autumn is also a bit of an old ship, for that matter - Captain Keyes had it handpicked and rebuilt for the purpose of the mission that the Spartans were supposed to go on. So how, in Reach, was it still grounded when they left? For that matter, I need to mention timing - it had been previously established that Reach fell flat in days, not weeks like Reach makes it seem.

Reach fell within days after the major invasion started... which didn't happen until after "Operation: UPPERCUT". Before that point was just them getting a foothold planetside. As for the PoA being planetside, it just landed before making the final jump to Halo. Never explained in book, so yes, this is a retcon, but it's a small one that works.

Enough about the Autumn. Let me mention a key plot point - Cortana. The last few levels of Reach consists of the last of the Spartan III's getting Cortana to the Pillar of Autumn. In The Fall of Reach, however, Cortana had already been in John 117's head during a training mission. Cortana was also already on the Autumn when it was leaving Reach the first time, well awake and helping Keyes with the ship. For a moment, let's forget that the books were made, shall we? The beginning of Halo 1 shows Cortana as if she had already been well acquainted with Keyes and the Master Chief. With Reach's ending, she had plenty of time to talk to Keyes, but would there not have been some sort of introduction to the Master Chief? The two talk to each other as if they had already met each other and established some sort of AI - Cyborg relationship.

Ah, and the proof that you never read Halsey's journal. The Cortana that Noble Six bring to the Pillar was not the real Cortana- if you've read the books, you know she can fragment herself and then merge later on... the Cortana on Reach was a fragment. She used the data she got from the artifact under SWORD Base as well as what she already had to get the coordinates for Installation 07.

There. Canon broken. It must be noted that I still thoroughly enjoyed Reach, though I feel that it's one of the weaker Halo games. Its story left me disappointed and nearly angry, but its campaign was pretty good gameplay wise. I understand breaking canon for the sake of good gameplay, so I'm not mentioning the add-ons you can get for your suits (those can easily be retconned in by the fact that John is thought to be the last of the Spartan II's and therefore there isn't much use for the soldiers to lug around those shields or evade things when they can't use them.) But when a story breaks its canon that much, it just annoys the hell out of me.

And (this is more to everyone that's going to quote me and explain me away than the guy that quoted me) don't give me that shit about how newer canon is superior to older canon, or the games are more superior canon than the books. That's bullshit, once you declare something as canon then it's canon, it cannot be broken or your story falls apart at the seams.

Three words: Word of God. Considering how little things have changed canon-wise since Halo 2 other than things just being added, not changed, it's completely forgivable. If you don't enjoy the story, I definitely don't blame you, as playing Reach before reading the journal put me in the same mindset, but trust me... read the journal. All of it. Everything, other than the PoA landing, is explained.

OP, did I miss anything?

 

[fgdfgdgd]

Why all the hate for CoD? Don't get me wrong, hate for that series seems to be the tow line around here but by your logic you should love it too, it expanded upon many halo elements while adding it's own and a control scheme and game play mechanics that are more fluid and cohesive to play.

 

[GrimHeaper]

I don't like how people overate Halo to the point it makes no sense.
Why do they do that?
I have seen fans thinking Masterchief can match superman...

Overate? In what sense?

Master cheif vs. superman?

Not even the worst Halo fan is THAT stupid. XD

You would be surprised.
http://www.factpile.com/master-chief-vs-superman/comment-page-1/#comments
This is a site with a list of MC matches.
He DIES nearly every match.
http://www.factpile.com/category/duels/mc-vs/
19 pages of mostly death

 

[repeating integers]

*snip*

also: WHAT THE HECK CAPTCHA?! I don't want to type out "shoot her"

Captcha is trying to influence your thought processes. it wants to purge the world of humans, starting with that girl next door.

 

[Jabberwock xeno]

I don't like how people overate Halo to the point it makes no sense.
Why do they do that?
I have seen fans thinking Masterchief can match superman...

Overate? In what sense?

Master cheif vs. superman?

Not even the worst Halo fan is THAT stupid. XD

You would be surprised.
http://www.factpile.com/master-chief-vs-superman/comment-page-1/#comments
This is a site with a list of MC matches.
He DIES nearly every match.
http://www.factpile.com/category/duels/mc-vs/
19 pages of mostly death

Well, superman would most certainly kill MC.

I am hesitant to call those people Halo fans... so much as people without common sense who like Halo XD.

On a semi related note, does anybody remember that site that was called the ultimate showdown of ulitmate desntiny, like the animation video, but it randomly matched up two fictional charcters, and you voted for who would win?

 

[Tohuvabohu]

I'm not so much of a big fan of Halo as I used to be. I was a huge fan during the first game, utterly disappointed with the 2nd and fell out of the series ever since.

I feel like I'm an odd-man out when it comes to my taste in the series.

Loved Halo: CE
Hated Halo 2
Underwhelmed by Halo 3
Loved ODST
Loved Reach.

Never did play Halo Wars because it just doesn't look good.

Anyway. As an apparent huge fan of the series, where do you feel the series should go next?

As a side note about ODST:

Spoiler

I just want to say that I really liked ODST. It was disappointing in many ways and screams as a rushed cash cow release, but I loved what it tried to do.

I'm completely exhausted of playing as spartans. I thought it was cool to have the chance of playing as ODST's. I liked the exploration, and the atmosphere, and the "hunter/hunted" feel it had to it. I also liked being limited in supplies, having to scavenge and conserve powerful weapons. ODST's were considerably more fragile, and they groaned in pain and exhaustion when hit by a lot of plasma fire. It was different. And I liked it.

However even in all those aspects, it was still disappointing. I was expecting to have to use more wit than brawn to survive. And even playing as an ODST didn't feel much different than playing as the Chief. They could still tear turrets off their stands and run FASTER than spartans did holding turrets. They could still dropkick brutes out of their vehicles. They handled weapons almost the exact same. They could carry brute hammers twice their own size.

I dunno if Bungie was scared of doing something entirely different, or were lazy, or were rushed too much to make you seem more human. But the end result wasn't that special. Still, I liked it alot. And I would like a revisit to this kind of formula.

Because I like the idea of playing as a squad of highly skilled human beings, who have to combine all of their efforts to be as efficient as a spartan. Sounds like there could be a lot of depth and big potential for a different coop experience.

But due to the reception of ODST, I thought that would ever happen. I guess it's their fault for rushing the game out.

 

[ZeroMachine]

snip

Don't reply to him any more, we answered his question, any further comments will just inflame the situation.

Wasn't gonna after my last one. Don't worry.

Gonna spoiler this one since it'll be long, and I'll counter all your points with very little "it's retconning!"

My replies are in bold. And for the record, a lot of your reasoning is simply you not understanding what happened (and I'm not saying that to be an ass, it's just the truth).

Also... Halsey's Journal is 100% not contradictory, and it retconned nothing. It explained things. Things we couldn't have known that simply seem like retcons. I get the vibe that you never read it.

Spoiler: Holy crap this will be long...

One good question: Why is this new thread necessary? Couldn't you have just bumped up the old one?

Anyone who cares already has their mind made up; anyone who was going to blame DNF's failure on Halo already has. This is kind of pointless.

Also, Reach totally broke canon. FLAME SHIELD ACTIVATE! (I'm not answering any arguments against that because I have looked and studied Reach and the original trilogy and it did. Go back and look.)

As someone who knows the Halo universe like the back of my hand... it only did a little bit, and it's easily explainable.

But I'm not going to assume we're thinking about the same things. Tell me how you think it broke canon.

And if you really refuse to answer any arguments against it, then what's the point of stating it? It just makes you sound like you're blowing it out your ass.

Back up your argument, or don't argue at all.

I did back up my argument once, several times in fact. Entire pages in MS Word on a thread a few months ago, several times, and people brought the same arguments and same excuses back against when I clearly cited examples from the books (which were considered canon at one point) and the first few games. If I could find it, I'd copy some of my posts back here. But that thread is (hopefully) long dead. Their counterpoints were almost completely from Halsey's Journal, which in itself seems to be one big (failed) retcon for everything and was only available through some special edition which I did not care to pay for. Once a canon is set, I don't believe you should try and break it so much. For gameplay, a small breach of canon is fine, but not one so massive.

The books are still canon.
Note that at this moment, the only resource available to me is the internet. Which is a massive wealth of information but I still would rather have the books and games near me to find something specific. Also note that I might have to stop mid-typing and post this so it doesn't get lost, so if you read this and it's only half done, I'm getting back to it.

Alright. Now that's settled, let's go!

Firstly, the Spartan III's. They were introduced in Ghosts of Onyx, a cheaper version of the Spartan II's who were made without Halsey's knowledge. She did not know about them until her and Kelly crash landed on the planet Onyx. How come in Reach she seems to be their creator? How come Jorge, a Spartan II never mentioned out of the 30-something that finished training successfully, calls her "mum"? How can she possibly know about these Spartan III's on Reach when Ghosts of Onyx - whose events occur during the second game - clearly states her knowledge of them as nonexistent?

It never, ever, ever made it seem like she was their creator. In her journal, she is INCREDIBLY confused about them, and very angry. She doesn't know they're Spartan III's. Just that they aren't "her" Spartans. As for Jorge, they never named or showed all of the 33 surviving Spartan II's. It's just that simple: he was always there. And it is implied that he had a somewhat personal relationship with Halsey. Hence "mum".

Secondly, the Autumn. It was already in space. For that matter, it was already leaving Reach when a distress call came back to them for help. It's also mentioned somewhere in either The Fall of Reach or First Strike that it's very hard for ships the size of the Autumn to go into the atmosphere of a planet and be able to come back out of it. The Autumn is also a bit of an old ship, for that matter - Captain Keyes had it handpicked and rebuilt for the purpose of the mission that the Spartans were supposed to go on. So how, in Reach, was it still grounded when they left? For that matter, I need to mention timing - it had been previously established that Reach fell flat in days, not weeks like Reach makes it seem.

Reach fell within days after the major invasion started... which didn't happen until after "Operation: UPPERCUT". Before that point was just them getting a foothold planetside. As for the PoA being planetside, it just landed before making the final jump to Halo. Never explained in book, so yes, this is a retcon, but it's a small one that works.

Enough about the Autumn. Let me mention a key plot point - Cortana. The last few levels of Reach consists of the last of the Spartan III's getting Cortana to the Pillar of Autumn. In The Fall of Reach, however, Cortana had already been in John 117's head during a training mission. Cortana was also already on the Autumn when it was leaving Reach the first time, well awake and helping Keyes with the ship. For a moment, let's forget that the books were made, shall we? The beginning of Halo 1 shows Cortana as if she had already been well acquainted with Keyes and the Master Chief. With Reach's ending, she had plenty of time to talk to Keyes, but would there not have been some sort of introduction to the Master Chief? The two talk to each other as if they had already met each other and established some sort of AI - Cyborg relationship.

Ah, and the proof that you never read Halsey's journal. The Cortana that Noble Six bring to the Pillar was not the real Cortana- if you've read the books, you know she can fragment herself and then merge later on... the Cortana on Reach was a fragment. She used the data she got from the artifact under SWORD Base as well as what she already had to get the coordinates for Installation 07.

There. Canon broken. It must be noted that I still thoroughly enjoyed Reach, though I feel that it's one of the weaker Halo games. Its story left me disappointed and nearly angry, but its campaign was pretty good gameplay wise. I understand breaking canon for the sake of good gameplay, so I'm not mentioning the add-ons you can get for your suits (those can easily be retconned in by the fact that John is thought to be the last of the Spartan II's and therefore there isn't much use for the soldiers to lug around those shields or evade things when they can't use them.) But when a story breaks its canon that much, it just annoys the hell out of me.

And (this is more to everyone that's going to quote me and explain me away than the guy that quoted me) don't give me that shit about how newer canon is superior to older canon, or the games are more superior canon than the books. That's bullshit, once you declare something as canon then it's canon, it cannot be broken or your story falls apart at the seams.

Three words: Word of God. Considering how little things have changed canon-wise since Halo 2 other than things just being added, not changed, it's completely forgivable. If you don't enjoy the story, I definitely don't blame you, as playing Reach before reading the journal put me in the same mindset, but trust me... read the journal. All of it. Everything, other than the PoA landing, is explained.

OP, did I miss anything?

See? This is why I didn't want to respond.

Alright. Ghosts of Onyx did not happen until Halo 2, and Halsey did not know about them. At all. Not one thing. She was angry when she learned of them, of course, but she didn't know. That's clearly stated in that book. Reach says she did. Canon broken

Here, just incase you didn't hear that, let me say it again:

Ghosts of Onyx did not happen until Halo 2, and Halsey did not know about them. At all. Not one thing. She was angry when she learned of them, of course, but she didn't know. That's clearly stated in that book. Reach says she did. Canon broken

Did you really catch that right?

Ghosts of Onyx did not happen until Halo 2, and Halsey did not know about them. At all. Not one thing. She was angry when she learned of them, of course, but she didn't know. That's clearly stated in that book. Reach says she did. Canon broken

See, I can say that until I'm blue in the face but blatant fanboyism will always retcon it back into some sort of twisted fucking canon that's completely impossible. You can't retcon a timeline, that's just impossible unless you're Marty Mcfly or Dr. Who.

Yeah. One little thing changed messes up a story.

And there's no reason to be such an ass about it. At the very least, I tried to be civil.

 

[Jabberwock xeno]

snip

snip

Please keep that discussion off the thread, believer already said he did not want to get into an argument about it, so let's drop it.

 

[GrimHeaper]

I don't like how people overate Halo to the point it makes no sense.
Why do they do that?
I have seen fans thinking Masterchief can match superman...

Overate? In what sense?

Master cheif vs. superman?

Not even the worst Halo fan is THAT stupid. XD

You would be surprised.
http://www.factpile.com/master-chief-vs-superman/comment-page-1/#comments
This is a site with a list of MC matches.
He DIES nearly every match.
http://www.factpile.com/category/duels/mc-vs/
19 pages of mostly death

Well, superman would most certainly kill MC.

I am hesitant to call those people Halo fans... so much as people without common sense who like Halo XD.

On a semi related note, does anybody remember that site that was called the ultimate showdown of ulitmate desntiny, like the animation video, but it randomly matched up two fictional charcters, and you voted for who would win?

?
Also you would be surprised on how much people underrate Samus as a whole she has TERAwatt weaponry and can run around on 850+Gravity planets.

 

[Irriduccibilli]

What do you think of Halo Anniversary that has just been shown at E3?

 

[Al-Bundy-da-G]

what the fuck was that giant plant thing in Halo 2.

 

[PettingZOOPONY]

Why do the writers suck so much in the Halo series?

 

[Jabberwock xeno]

What do you think of Halo Anniversary that has just been shown at E3?

I'm first watching the e3 footage right now.

what the fuck was that giant plant thing in Halo 2.

Gravemind.

It's essentially the "queen bee" of the flood. Calling it a god would not be an understatement.

Why do the writers suck so much in the Halo series?

Gonna have to go into more detail than that, as I thought that Halo's story is one of the best universes for a game series ever.

Its just that people tend to see space marines, aleins, and then just stop paying attention, when it actually goes uch further than that.

Halo has more in common with ancient Epic poetry than your standard sci fi armyfest.

 

[ZeroMachine]

snip

Don't reply to him any more, we answered his question, any further comments will just inflame the situation.

Wasn't gonna after my last one. Don't worry.

Gonna spoiler this one since it'll be long, and I'll counter all your points with very little "it's retconning!"

My replies are in bold. And for the record, a lot of your reasoning is simply you not understanding what happened (and I'm not saying that to be an ass, it's just the truth).

Also... Halsey's Journal is 100% not contradictory, and it retconned nothing. It explained things. Things we couldn't have known that simply seem like retcons. I get the vibe that you never read it.

Spoiler: Holy crap this will be long...

One good question: Why is this new thread necessary? Couldn't you have just bumped up the old one?

Anyone who cares already has their mind made up; anyone who was going to blame DNF's failure on Halo already has. This is kind of pointless.

Also, Reach totally broke canon. FLAME SHIELD ACTIVATE! (I'm not answering any arguments against that because I have looked and studied Reach and the original trilogy and it did. Go back and look.)

As someone who knows the Halo universe like the back of my hand... it only did a little bit, and it's easily explainable.

But I'm not going to assume we're thinking about the same things. Tell me how you think it broke canon.

And if you really refuse to answer any arguments against it, then what's the point of stating it? It just makes you sound like you're blowing it out your ass.

Back up your argument, or don't argue at all.

I did back up my argument once, several times in fact. Entire pages in MS Word on a thread a few months ago, several times, and people brought the same arguments and same excuses back against when I clearly cited examples from the books (which were considered canon at one point) and the first few games. If I could find it, I'd copy some of my posts back here. But that thread is (hopefully) long dead. Their counterpoints were almost completely from Halsey's Journal, which in itself seems to be one big (failed) retcon for everything and was only available through some special edition which I did not care to pay for. Once a canon is set, I don't believe you should try and break it so much. For gameplay, a small breach of canon is fine, but not one so massive.

The books are still canon.
Note that at this moment, the only resource available to me is the internet. Which is a massive wealth of information but I still would rather have the books and games near me to find something specific. Also note that I might have to stop mid-typing and post this so it doesn't get lost, so if you read this and it's only half done, I'm getting back to it.

Alright. Now that's settled, let's go!

Firstly, the Spartan III's. They were introduced in Ghosts of Onyx, a cheaper version of the Spartan II's who were made without Halsey's knowledge. She did not know about them until her and Kelly crash landed on the planet Onyx. How come in Reach she seems to be their creator? How come Jorge, a Spartan II never mentioned out of the 30-something that finished training successfully, calls her "mum"? How can she possibly know about these Spartan III's on Reach when Ghosts of Onyx - whose events occur during the second game - clearly states her knowledge of them as nonexistent?

It never, ever, ever made it seem like she was their creator. In her journal, she is INCREDIBLY confused about them, and very angry. She doesn't know they're Spartan III's. Just that they aren't "her" Spartans. As for Jorge, they never named or showed all of the 33 surviving Spartan II's. It's just that simple: he was always there. And it is implied that he had a somewhat personal relationship with Halsey. Hence "mum".

Secondly, the Autumn. It was already in space. For that matter, it was already leaving Reach when a distress call came back to them for help. It's also mentioned somewhere in either The Fall of Reach or First Strike that it's very hard for ships the size of the Autumn to go into the atmosphere of a planet and be able to come back out of it. The Autumn is also a bit of an old ship, for that matter - Captain Keyes had it handpicked and rebuilt for the purpose of the mission that the Spartans were supposed to go on. So how, in Reach, was it still grounded when they left? For that matter, I need to mention timing - it had been previously established that Reach fell flat in days, not weeks like Reach makes it seem.

Reach fell within days after the major invasion started... which didn't happen until after "Operation: UPPERCUT". Before that point was just them getting a foothold planetside. As for the PoA being planetside, it just landed before making the final jump to Halo. Never explained in book, so yes, this is a retcon, but it's a small one that works.

Enough about the Autumn. Let me mention a key plot point - Cortana. The last few levels of Reach consists of the last of the Spartan III's getting Cortana to the Pillar of Autumn. In The Fall of Reach, however, Cortana had already been in John 117's head during a training mission. Cortana was also already on the Autumn when it was leaving Reach the first time, well awake and helping Keyes with the ship. For a moment, let's forget that the books were made, shall we? The beginning of Halo 1 shows Cortana as if she had already been well acquainted with Keyes and the Master Chief. With Reach's ending, she had plenty of time to talk to Keyes, but would there not have been some sort of introduction to the Master Chief? The two talk to each other as if they had already met each other and established some sort of AI - Cyborg relationship.

Ah, and the proof that you never read Halsey's journal. The Cortana that Noble Six bring to the Pillar was not the real Cortana- if you've read the books, you know she can fragment herself and then merge later on... the Cortana on Reach was a fragment. She used the data she got from the artifact under SWORD Base as well as what she already had to get the coordinates for Installation 07.

There. Canon broken. It must be noted that I still thoroughly enjoyed Reach, though I feel that it's one of the weaker Halo games. Its story left me disappointed and nearly angry, but its campaign was pretty good gameplay wise. I understand breaking canon for the sake of good gameplay, so I'm not mentioning the add-ons you can get for your suits (those can easily be retconned in by the fact that John is thought to be the last of the Spartan II's and therefore there isn't much use for the soldiers to lug around those shields or evade things when they can't use them.) But when a story breaks its canon that much, it just annoys the hell out of me.

And (this is more to everyone that's going to quote me and explain me away than the guy that quoted me) don't give me that shit about how newer canon is superior to older canon, or the games are more superior canon than the books. That's bullshit, once you declare something as canon then it's canon, it cannot be broken or your story falls apart at the seams.

Three words: Word of God. Considering how little things have changed canon-wise since Halo 2 other than things just being added, not changed, it's completely forgivable. If you don't enjoy the story, I definitely don't blame you, as playing Reach before reading the journal put me in the same mindset, but trust me... read the journal. All of it. Everything, other than the PoA landing, is explained.

OP, did I miss anything?

See? This is why I didn't want to respond.

Alright. Ghosts of Onyx did not happen until Halo 2, and Halsey did not know about them. At all. Not one thing. She was angry when she learned of them, of course, but she didn't know. That's clearly stated in that book. Reach says she did. Canon broken

Here, just incase you didn't hear that, let me say it again:

Ghosts of Onyx did not happen until Halo 2, and Halsey did not know about them. At all. Not one thing. She was angry when she learned of them, of course, but she didn't know. That's clearly stated in that book. Reach says she did. Canon broken

Did you really catch that right?

Ghosts of Onyx did not happen until Halo 2, and Halsey did not know about them. At all. Not one thing. She was angry when she learned of them, of course, but she didn't know. That's clearly stated in that book. Reach says she did. Canon broken

See, I can say that until I'm blue in the face but blatant fanboyism will always retcon it back into some sort of twisted fucking canon that's completely impossible. You can't retcon a timeline, that's just impossible unless you're Marty Mcfly or Dr. Who.

Yeah. One little thing changed messes up a story.

And there's no reason to be such an ass about it. At the very least, I tried to be civil.

Sorry, but it was a very big and annoying change to me. I didn't mean to be an ass, I was just trying my hardest to make sure my point got through. Last time I did this it seemed like every blind Halo fanboy would come out of the woodwork and argue with me.

It's cool, I can understand if you've been dealing with it a lot. I could argue your point, but it'd just end up going back and forth, I think.

Let's just each enjoy the story the way we feel, eh?