Atheism/Depression/Meaning of Life/Nihilism

[dslkfjsdlfkjdslkfjsdf]

So, my girlfriend and I are both atheists, and we both have similar outlooks on life (i.e., there's no real 'purpose' to existence anymore than there is a purpose for a tree, beyond self-perpetuation and the survival of the gene). Whereas I view this in almost an absurdist and humored way, it's made her extremely nihilistic. She sees no reason to go on, and has become incredibly depressed without any purpose.

She has told me she doesn't feel anything but poorly (what I mean by that is that she feels numb, for the most part, or just 'bad'), and that without a modicum of control (her therapist has tried getting her to recognize that much of life is beyond her control; I agree, I told her a lot of life may involve planning, but that 'rolling with the punches' and HOW you react to a situation is what matters) she feels lost and worthless. She doesn't even know what makes her happy, anymore. She gets up in the morning only because she doesn't want to make anyone else suffer if she doesn't. It's killing me, because I care about her so much, but I have no idea what else I can offer her beyond her own happiness (she says nothing inertly makes her happy, beyond helping others-- and her psychologist apparently said she needs to figure out what makes her happy APART from that) and her life as it is.

This is further complicated by the fact that she refuses medication (in the past, it really screwed with her).

I offered her the quote by Dawkins that put my life a bit into perspective about the sand grains of Arabia, but even that hasn't affected her. I'm at a loss, and I'm hoping one of you can give me something that I might not be properly thinking of. Please.

 

[curlycrouton]

Your situation seems dire, however I am afraid I can do nothing to help.
Good luck.

 

[Easykill]

Life has no ultimate purpose, but your life has whatever meaning you give it. Mine is to be happy, tell her to find hers.

 

[L.B. Jeffries]

Well Gulliver's Travels had a pretty funny joke about nihilists. When Gulliver is on the final island with the Fascist Horse People (Hoynehym or something like that) all of the people on the island are barbaric. Think 'Planet of the Apes' and you get the idea, except the Horse people are delighted that Gulliver is sane and not an asshole.

Anyways, one of the Horse people comments that for some reason whenever a manling has too much time on its hands, it will sit down and start thinking a lot. Then it starts crying and pulling out its hair. The horse people would let this go on for a while until the other manlings started doing the same thing because they listened to the manling who was thinking too much. Then they'd have to go kick them around until they started working again, growing crops and taking care of themselves.

They usually cheered right back up as soon as they stopped thinking so much.

 

[dslkfjsdlfkjdslkfjsdf]

Easykill, I know that our lives have meaning in terms of what we give it. I know that, to me, life is beautiful. Again, to quote Dawkins:

"We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here...After sleeping through a hundred million centuries we have finally opened our eyes on a sumptuous planet, sparkling with color, bountiful with life. Within decades we must close our eyes again. Who, with such a thought, would not spring from bed, eager to resume discovering the world and rejoicing to be a part of it?"

I feel like that. I feel ecstatic to look out at the world. To know that it's NOT as serious as it seems. To know that we're all, basically, just on a ride and that we can change it whenever we want. Or end the ride.

I'm worried about her 'ending the ride.' I can explain it to her logically, but we just don't see eye-to-eye about it. She doesn't KNOW the things that make her happy outside of helping others, and she sees no purpose. Telling her to find it without guidance or direction is pointless. I know that most change comes from within, but that's not what a good 'coach' does in this situation. I need to find a way to make her WANT to do that, or inspire her, or something.

Thanks, nonetheless, for the kind words.

 

[dslkfjsdlfkjdslkfjsdf]

Jeffries,

You do make a good point about overthinking things. I've tried getting her involved in more activities and the sort. Last weekend we saw a flick, went ice skating, went to the hirshhorn museum of art-- it was great. But she tends to overthink everything and worry often; her 'logic' is that ignoring the problem (by not thinking) is weak.

 

[Rankao]

My personal view on the meaning of life is this, "It doesn't really matter"

Have her ask the question. "Why does it matter that my life has meaning or doesn't"

Now personally I have no problem with either atheist or religion group 'x' but it seems as people we need to have a meaning or a place in life. In my prospective we are all pieces of a puzzle and without that piece the puzzle looks incomplete and no matter how beautiful the entire piece looks, our eyes are drawn to the missing piece. We are social creatures and we are all connected. In the end our meaning isn't found within (only) ourselves but with those who are around us.

She says she finds happiness in helping others then she possibly could be unconsciously desiring to connect better with the people and the world around yourselves.

 

[sammyfreak]

Personally I recomend religion (in the most humble way possible), but from your description of her it would seem that neither of you are interested in it.

 

[Janus Vesta]

Try to explain to her that even if life seems meaningless there is no logical reason to give up. You can add meaning to life by finding something to enjoy and that by over-analyzing everything needlessly she is just making life seem more meaningless than it is. Try to get her into group activities or exploration, they tend to help a lot of people. My friend helped me get over depression that way, but my depression doesn't sound as bad as hers is. And I understand her refusal to take drugs, they messed up some people I know too.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

She seems to be in a cycle of believing that her depressed thoughts are rational therefore she sees medication as a dumbing down of herself. It almost seems as if they takes pride in the way she observes things so getting her to take meds would be impossible until she admitted that she was indeed ill and wanted to change.

That being said, if she doesn't want to change you might just have to leave. Depression is a very selfish (not using the term in a loaded moralistic way) condition and you are in no position to "fix" her.

I was in a similar situation, and everytime I entered the room I felt anxiety over having to deal with this overwhelming situation of her depression. At first the thought of leaving her felt like abandoning her but then it occurred to me that she had abandoned me a long time ago.

 

[dslkfjsdlfkjdslkfjsdf]

Rankao,

The issue she would have with your question "why does it matter if your life has purpose?" would be that she would respond "why does it matter if I live?" The response, of course, would be the same as your question: "it doesn't."

The difference between her and I is that I say "well, why kill yourself?" and she asks "well, why not?" There are reasons to not, I'm sure, but they're not particularly convincing to her. I'll try recommending the connection with others aspect, but the odd part is that she's actually pretty introverted and almost (though not) agoraphobic. She has to be in one-on-one contact or withdrawn-- too much interaction wears her out, with lots of people.

And as far as religion goes, Sammy, the problem would be (even if she hypothetically could believe in a deity-- and she, unlike me, does believe in 'mysteries of the universe' as she puts it) the question would still be there: "my purpose is to serve a deity? WHY? What good does that do?" She is never content with not knowing-- so "it's beyond our understanding" or "you just need to have faith" would never satiate her.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

The difference between her and I is that I say "well, why kill yourself?" and she asks "well, why not?" There are reasons to not, I'm sure, but they're not particularly convincing to her.

Not that a person should live solely for just another person but she doesn't seem to value your relationship with her.

I should have stated this initially... if you feel that she is a serious suicide risk and that the potential is real then you must contact her parents and her primary physician (you could also call the cops who will direct you in the proper direction) and get her admitted. Having delt with depression before (friends, family, etc) I know that it is too big of an issue to fix with a speach and an epiphany, it requires a support network of family and medical intervention.

 

[jim_doki]

yeah, i vote medication. and some time on a professional couch

 

[dslkfjsdlfkjdslkfjsdf]

Janus and BallPt,

Yeah, I understand the aspect of group-activities, but she gets annoyed with too many people for too long. She also thinks that by ignoring the problem, it's weak (i.e. by focusing on other things) which I've tried explaining to her isn't true, though I'm not sure I had very much in the way of convincing evidence other than the happiness part. In her mind 'an ugly truth is better than a pretty lie,' which I agree with, but that doesn't mean overanalysis.

She DOES admit that depression is an illness, and she DOES want to change. She's been exercising a lot, going to therapy, and doing everything the counselor says-- minus drugs. She got VERY suicidal last time they put her on those, like eight years ago, apparently. She has these on and off cycles with depression. I know depression is a selfish disease, and if I had no hope for the situation rectifying, then I wouldn't stay. I really would leave, because I don't want it to become too emotionally vampiric.

Thing is, I really do care about this girl a whole awful lot. She's intelligent, funny, charming, pretty, and we have a ton in common. Things used to be wonderful, before this hit. It's hard seeing her upset, but it's affecting our sex-life, our conversation, and her ability to feel anything for me. Tough to stay with someone who doesn't really FEEL like they care about you, no?

I'm sorry, BallPt, that you have to do that. I would feel like I was abandoning her, but the truth of the matter is (push comes to shove), I will do that if I have to. It's just not nearly my first choice.

 

[nimrandir]

My personal view on the meaning of life is this, "It doesn't really matter"

Have her ask the question. "Why does it matter that my life has meaning or doesn't"

Now personally I have no problem with either atheist or religion group 'x' but it seems as people we need to have a meaning or a place in life. In my prospective we are all pieces of a puzzle and without that piece the puzzle looks incomplete and no matter how beautiful the entire piece looks, our eyes are drawn to the missing piece. We are social creatures and we are all connected. In the end our meaning isn't found within (only) ourselves but with those who are around us.

She says she finds happiness in helping others then she possibly could be unconsciously desiring to connect better with the people and the world around yourselves.

The puzzle analogy gives meaning in terms of something which is outside the puzzle itself. In the absence of a viewer or a puzzle-solver, does the interconnectedness (or lack of same) of the pieces matter?

As someone whose worldview has always been couched in his ardent theism, I really have no advice to offer; I can merely wish you the best.

 

[sammyfreak]

And as far as religion goes, Sammy, the problem would be (even if she hypothetically could believe in a deity-- and she, unlike me, does believe in 'mysteries of the universe' as she puts it) the question would still be there: "my purpose is to serve a deity? WHY? What good does that do?" She is never content with not knowing-- so "it's beyond our understanding" or "you just need to have faith" would never satiate her.

Yes, unfortunately that is the view that most people; religious or not seem to have.

For me (you could describe me as a Baptist Christian) my meaning in life has more to do with something as vague as "being in a relationship with God". Service is sort of important, but just living with and of God is what matters to me.

Intelectually I admit that there is no obvious proof of God's existance and if she is unable to have faith in the unseen I fully understand why she doesn't believe in God.

 

[Aardvark]

Hedonism is your answer. Live for yourselves and enjoy every debauched moment.

 

[Janus Vesta]

Rankao,

The issue she would have with your question "why does it matter if your life has purpose?" would be that she would respond "why does it matter if I live?" The response, of course, would be the same as your question: "it doesn't."

The difference between her and I is that I say "well, why kill yourself?" and she asks "well, why not?" There are reasons to not, I'm sure, but they're not particularly convincing to her. I'll try recommending the connection with others aspect, but the odd part is that she's actually pretty introverted and almost (though not) agoraphobic. She has to be in one-on-one contact or withdrawn-- too much interaction wears her out, with lots of people.

And as far as religion goes, Sammy, the problem would be (even if she hypothetically could believe in a deity-- and she, unlike me, does believe in 'mysteries of the universe' as she puts it) the question would still be there: "my purpose is to serve a deity? WHY? What good does that do?" She is never content with not knowing-- so "it's beyond our understanding" or "you just need to have faith" would never satiate her.

Well then. If she needs to know, then convince her to find out. Tell her that she should do what she can to learn about anything and everything that interests her. And if you see anything, ANYTHING, which gives a hint that she is interested don't let her give up easily. Maybe she would like to know why the Universe is the way it is, or how the body works or how to create something, I don't know. But you should help her find something which interests her, even a little. It could lead to something she loves.

And sammyfreak, just because you feel abandoned when someone gives into depression is no reason to give up on them, that's being more selfish than they were, it's better to keep trying to help than to cut and run.