Atheists, the new Catholics?

[Kubanator]

Most, if not all, people see things from one point of view - theirs.
Furthermore, most people are arrogant.
They refuse to accept that anything they do could be wrong.

I look at things from a rational perspective, and then accept my mistake when my logical reasoning has been disproven.

Non-religious folk shout about how they're having religion forced on them while trying to force disbelief on others, usually loudly.

Atheists could care less whether personal religion is being forced on them. It's organized religion that's the problem. Such as stem cell research, or gay marriage.

The point is, yes, there are atheists who treat atheism like a religion, and they're the fanatics.
And yes, they're annoying.
And yes, they're no better than the people they complain about.

You're telling me that enforcing religious laws from a legal perspective is no worse than telling someone their idea is wrong, and yours is right.

God is an idiot, and if he existed, I would hate him. When you go to heaven, you get to spend an infinite amount of time with him. I don't want to have to do that. Hell would be much more awesome and pain could be overcome easily given an eternity of time to do it.

A man of infinite intelligence is an idiot. And you're the genius. By definition god cannot be an idiot. By definition, you will experience infinite happiness in heaven, and infinite pain in hell. The pain cannot overcome. That's like saying you could escape from a black hole once past the horizon event.

 

[NotMemorable]

Because if you're questioning it, you probably don't believe it.
But you're not going to convince someone who does, no matter how sound your logic.

Exactly, I don't agree on the hypocracy part though. I think the atheist side (and yes I'm gonna be generalising here) has a pretty valid reason to feel the need to convert other people. Like I've pointed out earlier, religion is a presonal choice that has found it's way to the the leaders of a country and by extend to every one of our lives. It slows down our race, breeds war and destruction, this is something that needs to change, but for it to change religion must controll less minds.

 

[Kubanator]

Why are you talking about atheists like I'm not one of them?
Assumptions, that's why.

Please, post where I stated you were not an atheist. I didn't. You inferred it. You assumed that's what I meant. I have no care of what particular train of thought you follow, and in a world of rational, it doesn't matter. Please don't treat me as an idiot who can't think from a rational perspective.

 

[benoitowns]

See, I am an atheist, and this is because of a few reasons. The majority of religions I have found (as in all of them so far), are filled with bullshit. Yes, not just things I disagree with, but bullshit. Christianity is the easiest to pick on, so lets go with that. The whole gay thing, bullshit, What if Adam chose a male companion? Why is it unnatural to have sex in different ways? God gives us free will, but does not wish us to understand the science of life and evolution? The Bible says that Commandments apply to all the Children of God, His children. But The Bible also states that men have authority over women, women have to do as men say or burn in hell, and have to have children or burn in Hell. People who do not believe in you religion (as from the Christians point of view), are not Children of God for they have rejected him. Children of God have dominion over those who do not believe in exactly the same God with the same beliefs as you. (the Christian) This means one who is a Child of God may murder a Child of Satan, covet his wife and break any of the commandments to him/her without any consequences. Also, people in general live their lives subjectively morally. Why would an all powerful, all knowing and supposedly all understanding God punish people for trivial, menial, arbitrary things? It is not right to send people to hell for not have having sacraments,it is bullshit. Gods(overall) should not be giving people a test in their lives to see if they are living in a level of eternity as a God, when we ourselves are not Gods or even Demigods. Religions in general are irrational, illogical, not necessarily stupid, but bullshit. I mostly agree with Satanic philosophy, but I think the mysticism is bullshit and possibly nonetheless stupid and moronic. Religion has helped and stunted civilization throughout all of history, it will never change, but still someone will be a scapegoat. Hopefully the Jews will get a break, maybe now its the Muslims turn?(that was a joke people) Also, the atheists whom yo say are close minded, are most likely stupider than you or anyone reading this, or not actually an atheist. (example: Kirk Cameron) So yes, you probably are a noob and I could own your ass in Halo 3, Call of Duty and the likes, but I am not close-minded.

 

[NotMemorable]

Name99
You keep throwing around your obviously flawed logic and still expect to be taken seriously? Why are you even here? I think by now you've made clear how tough you are (amongst other things). I won't bother responding to more of your troll remarks.

 

[Kubanator]

I guess my point was,

Atheists could care less whether personal religion is being forced on them. It's organized religion that's the problem. Such as stem cell research, or gay marriage.

do you really speak for an entire group?
Are you our Pope?

Or maybe I'm just annoyed because I'm tired of being quoted in this thread endlessly.

I'm speaking from a rational perspective. As atheism is a rational based system, an atheist would not care about any words which held no power. They would care about something that could change their lives, such as stem cell research, or gay marriage.

 

[hobo_welf]

The other half of my theory goes as follows;

Theists base their beliefs on one thing, just as atheists do. This is (obviously) what sets them apart so strongly. Theists, at the core of their being, are based on faith. Atheists are based, at the core of their being, on logic. This is what sets them apart like oil and water. Atheists can never understand faith, and while some theists can understand logic, their faith is stronger. Atheism-theism is a battle of faith and logic, and you really can't say that one is stronger than the other. Well you can, and invariably someone will try, but until you can actually use your logic to disarm others of their faith, you can't honestly believe that one is stronger than the other. And if you honestly believe you can rid someone of their faith with logic, you're as misguided as any Catholic.

Honestly though, why the hell would you even try? Faith works for so many people, it causes strife, but it brings millions and billions of people together under one banner that honestly might not even look at each other otherwise, and that's something that I can get behind. Atheists might be joined under a unifying cause, but honestly, what have atheists ever done as a group? How many soup kitchens feed people who are under their luck because of atheists? How many houses are built in New Orleans every day because of people who don't believe in a god? How many people stop drinking or shooting up or wasting their lives because of the lack of faith?

At the other end of the spectrum, how many scientific breakthroughs have been garnered by people foaming at the mouth about a god? I'm sure that one day the cure for cancer will be realized or the solution for world hunger will be realized, and it might be an atheist who stands at the helm of that discovery, but I can promise you this much. She/He will not attribute that breakthrough to her/his lack of faith. It will be a discovery made by human effort, not the belief or disbelief in a god.

No, faith does save people, even if it's illogical. Ultimately that's what it comes down to. An atheist could never understand why someone would give up all their worldly possessions and wealth to sit down and take care of people less fortunate than them, someone willing to sacrifice their own well-being just to aid others.

Similarly, someone filled with faith could never understand why someone would claim that everything their life is based on is fake, simply because there is no rationale to it. If there's no proof, there is no god. But that's the thing about faith that atheists don't understand! God doesn't matter without faith! If someone believed in god simply because there was proof, he would be meaningless. Everyone would go about paying tribute to someone that they know exists and it would be fake. Someone else here already mentioned that if they knew god existed, they'd believe in him just to go to heaven.

But theists don't believe to go to heaven. Theists believe because faith gives them strength, and the strength to help others. Which is why I respect them a hell of a lot more than I respect atheists. It's easy to believe that there is no god because there is no proof. It's hella hard to believe in god when there isn't any.

Especially on the internet with all the atheists cramming their logic down your throats.

As for what Max already said, yes there are fanatics for every religion, or lack thereof. And it's not a good idea to throw the baby out with the bathwater. However it only takes one bad apple to ruin the bunch (that's the end of the metaphors for today), and that's why I left the Catholic church. It only takes a few judgmental assholes to make you not care about god, and similarly, it only takes a few anons filled with their newfound logic to make the rest of you look like fools.

At least in my eyes, but like you said Max, everyone is arrogant of their own beliefs.

Edit: My bad, the last paragraph or so probably could've been a pm.

 

[Godheads_Lament]

...an atheist would not care about any words which held no power.

Not that I want to speak for an entire group, but that's a nice thought, unfortunately even moderist religion impacts our lives in a big way - mostly in reference to the entire secularist vs. freedom of expression governance style, notably in public office.

 

[benoitowns]

Not so smart as you'd burn in hell for eternity, or are you going to take chances on that one? It's a little easy to just call someone an idiot because he defies your sense of logic.
And stop trolling, civil discussion will get you miles further than spreading hate.

What I have to say specifically to YOU, NotMemorable, is that YOU are the close minded one. If Hell is just a place where God is not present, then we have nothing to fear. Also, If YOU are wrong, you would have wasted your one and only life devoting yourself to a nonexistant deity. I will live my life accordingly and morally, but I will primarily look out for myself, and live in the now. If life is an arbitrary test, then I will show this immature God who is intolerant of disbelievers that I don't need to please others to be happy with myself.(as in God) If you are too narrow minded to see, the majority of Christians and even Baptists, Catholics, Orthodox, are tolerant of people. (minus the whole gay thing, the muslim thing, the abortion thing, the black people thing, and the polytheism thing) They show that they are more tolerant and accepting than this spiteful, childish God. Maybe He is nothing like as the Bible tells, but that won't change how I behave throughout my life. Even if science proved there was a God, I would follow my morals and know that should understand, or else God is a pretentious ass.

 

[Godheads_Lament]

Snip

I would point out that perhaps it is too simplistic to imply that because religion has a few benefits that you can name, the rest of the bad shit (no matter how trivial) should be permissable? Apologies if this wasn't what you were trying to get across but that's how I read it

 

[Kubanator]

You can clearly see that the christian god, if he exists, is not one of infinite intelligence by using your own and looking at exactly what happens, looking at what god could and should do, and keeps on happening anyway. It is nothing like saying I could escape from a black hole. It's like saying that a black hole wouldn't be all that bad once I got used to it, if I survived somehow.

Let's say you look at a man outside, naked. You think that doesn't make sense because it's snowing. He has a fever and would die if he wasn't naked. Although he would seem stupid to you, it's simply because he has more knowledge than you. He makes a better judge of intelligence than you do.

As for getting used to it, I don't think you understand the concept of infinity. Infinity means no matter how high you raise your pain tolerances level, it will still hurt infinitely more. Given that a real number is finite, your pain tolerance level will never reach infinity, making it always hurt an infinite amount.

This whole "if he exists" thing is not going to work out at all as he doesn't exist. I'm interpreting it as if suddenly humanity found conclusive proof that god exists. I would know that he is an idiot. If he really did exist, though, he would not seem like such an idiot... I don't think you'll understand what I mean, but just get off this hypothetical because it is irrelevant and doesn't matter.

Irrational, you stated an absolute where there is no evidence.

 

[hobo_welf]

Snip

I would point out that perhaps it is too simplistic to imply that because religion has a few benefits that you can name, the rest of the bad shit (no matter how trivial) should be permissable? Apologies if this wasn't what you were trying to get across but that's how I read it

I'm saying that religion does things for the world that atheists refuse to accept (for the most part), and the opposite is just about true. I'm saying that people are going to believe what they want to believe, and I guess after all my gigantic walls of text today, what I'm saying is that none of this really matters, because it's all going to go on like it has.

The only difference is now I hate that douchebag with the penguin avatar.

 

[Kubanator]

...an atheist would not care about any words which held no power.

Not that I want to speak for an entire group, but that's a nice thought, unfortunately even moderist religion impacts our lives in a big way - mostly in reference to the entire secularist vs. freedom of expression governance style, notably in public office.

To quote myself:

..any words which held no power. They would care about something that could change their lives, such as stem cell research, or gay marriage.

Things that Organized religion affects.

Honestly though, why the hell would you even try? Faith works for so many people, it causes strife, but it brings millions and billions of people together under one banner that honestly might not even look at each other otherwise, and that's something that I can get behind. Atheists might be joined under a unifying cause, but honestly, what have atheists ever done as a group? How many soup kitchens feed people who are under their luck because of atheists? How many houses are built in New Orleans every day because of people who don't believe in a god? How many people stop drinking or shooting up or wasting their lives because of the lack of faith?

No, faith does save people, even if it's illogical. Ultimately that's what it comes down to. An atheist could never understand why someone would give up all their worldly possessions and wealth to sit down and take care of people less fortunate than them, someone willing to sacrifice their own well-being just to aid others.

So essentially, people are evil and won't help others unless god makes them do it? It's insulting to humanity to say that every act of good is done due to religion.

 

[benoitowns]

If you wouldn't mind extrapolating, and giving a half asses answer. Those types of answers are easier to refute.

 

[NotMemorable]

What I have to say specifically to YOU, NotMemorable, is that YOU are the close minded one. If Hell is just a place where God is not present, then we have nothing to fear. Also, If YOU are wrong, you would have wasted your one and only life devoting yourself to a nonexistant deity. I will live my life accordingly and morally, but I will primarily look out for myself, and live in the now. If life is an arbitrary test, then I will show this immature God who is intolerant of disbelievers that I don't need to please others to be happy with myself.(as in God) If you are too narrow minded to see, the majority of Christians and even Baptists, Catholics, Orthodox, are tolerant of people. (minus the whole gay thing, the muslim thing, the abortion thing, the black people thing, and the polytheism thing) They show that they are more tolerant and accepting than this spiteful, childish God. Maybe He is nothing like as the Bible tells, but that won't change how I behave throughout my life. Even if science proved there was a God, I would follow my morals and know that should understand, or else God is a pretentious ass.

That particular post was in referance to an if scenario. The scenario assumed that there is in fact irrefutable evidence that the biblical God exists and that the bible is the absolute translation of the word of God(that's how I interpeted it anyways). If that's the case Hell isn't merely absent of God, no it's a place of suffering. I think it that was a misunderstanding of my beliefs (either through fault of yours or mine, doesn't really matter). I don't consider myself close minded, if you do please elaborate more.

Again, if I saw any reason to assume that God (in the biblical sense) was in fact real (or that there's a large chance of him being real) I'd be the first to pray to him.

(I'm an Atheist)