Atheists want God stricken from inaugural oath

[Vinculi]

Well considering the 8 year long cock up bush created with his affinity for god I can see why people wouldn't want him to have to say it.

He doesn't have to, he wants to. They are saying that he cant.

And here we are, back at the issue of freedom, who has the right to tell him he can't say it? What gives someone the right to tell him he can't?

 

[oni565]

I agree with the "Peta effect". There not gaining anything by doing this

 

[Vinculi]

Well considering the 8 year long cock up bush created with his affinity for god I can see why people wouldn't want him to have to say it.

He doesn't have to, he wants to. They are saying that he cant.

And here we are, back at the issue of freedom, who has the right to tell him he can't say it? What gives someone the right to tell him he can't?

It's kind of a gray area. On one hand the first amendment says that the government can't tell him to say it, just as it can't tell him not to say it. On the other hand...he is the government. Unfortunately the 1st amendment isn't especially clear on where and how politicians can practice their own personal religion.

So is there a problem with the way the constitution has been written? Given the debate stemming from abiguity...

 

[vede]

Well, there's something I always smile at when an atheist debates with me.
If there isn't a God, then nothing happens to any of us.
If there is a God, then I go to Heaven and the atheist gets the downside either way.
Either way, I'm covered.

Now, back to the subject at hand...
Just like PETA isn't gonna end up banning meat...
The government isn't going to ban any use of the word God.

(Sorry to do this to this thread, I really am, but it has to be done...)

Pascal's wager doesn't work. At all.

First off, you're saying that your god would be perfectly fine with you saying you believe in him just because you want to have paradise later? Isn't that... I dunno... greed? Also, you have to think, you don't really choose to believe or not. For atheists, this would be the equivalent of believing there's an oasis over the next dune just because an oasis is good, and not considering the fact that the odds of an oasis over the next dune are very, very slim. Good or bad don't necessarily correlate with truth and fallacy.

Next, you act like there's only two options here; God and no god. What if it turns out that there is some sort of deity, but it's not God? What if it winds up being that some African tribe has the right beliefs? What if Allah is the true god, and really hates all the Christians and Catholics? See, this is why it doesn't work. You act like you can either not believe, or believe in God, when really, you can not believe in anything, believe in God, believe in Allah, believe in Abugabba the African tree-god, believe in Zeus, believe in Zimpabba the godlike dragon, believe in the flying spaghetti monster, or anything. Turns out, there's about a 0.06% chance that you're right, and you're on your way to Heaven.

 

[AceDiamond]

It's a Christian nation-

First Amendment Disagrees.

 

[Knonsense]

It's kind of a gray area. On one hand the first amendment says that the government can't tell him to say it, just as it can't tell him not to say it. On the other hand...he is the government. Unfortunately the 1st amendment isn't especially clear on where and how politicians can practice their own personal religion.

So is there a problem with the way the constitution has been written? Given the debate stemming from abiguity...

If it doesn't reference any situation near this, then the situation isn't a constitutional issue.

There is no law involved, and there is no religious establishment directly involved (i.e., theism does not equal a religious establishment like a church). Therefore, I would say that this is not an issue regarding the Separation of Church and State as written in the constitution.

 

[Ezekel]

Well considering the 8 year long cock up bush created with his affinity for god I can see why people wouldn't want him to have to say it.

He doesn't have to, he wants to. They are saying that he cant.

And here we are, back at the issue of freedom, who has the right to tell him he can't say it? What gives someone the right to tell him he can't?

It's kind of a gray area. On one hand the first amendment says that the government can't tell him to say it, just as it can't tell him not to say it. On the other hand...he is the government. Unfortunately the 1st amendment isn't especially clear on where and how politicians can practice their own personal religion.

So is there a problem with the way the constitution has been written? Given the debate stemming from abiguity...

1st Amendment say that Congress cannot pass any laws to establish a religion, or prohibit the free exercise of them. This is not a law. Congress is not involved in any way. If they pass a ruling that says he cannot say it they are stopping him from freely exercising his religious freedom, so its unconstitutional for them to do so.

 

[Alex_P]

Well, there's something I always smile at when an atheist debates with me.
If there isn't a God, then nothing happens to any of us.
If there is a God, then I go to Heaven and the atheist gets the downside either way.
Either way, I'm covered.

If you don't suck my dick, you're going to go to hell. The kind of hell where you suffer forever.

If I'm wrong, well, you've sucked my dick for no reason.
But if I'm right -- well, you certainly don't want to go to hell, right?
It's really a very small price to pay.

So, can I pencil you in for an appointment next week?

-- Alex

 

[Et3rnalLegend64]

If Obama believes in God, let him say whatever he wants. Hyper religious people who go on crusades trying to have everyone following the faith are insane. Atheists who care so much as to want the word "God" taken out of everything to do with the country are not so much insane as they are varying degrees of stupid. They have a somewhat valid reason, but I just say drop it.
I'm agnostic, used to be religious, and honestly asked to be saved (but I was tiny and gullible, so I shouldn't count). Then I opened my eyes. I don't denounce the idea of a higher being, I just question it. Other than that, I really don't care about this "God" stuff in our pledge, the President's pledge, or on our money. I'm just sad the Christian God won't accept me only for being a morally good person, but that's another story.

 

[Vinculi]

If Obama believes in God, let him say whatever he wants. Hyper religious people who go on crusades trying to have everyone following the faith are insane. Atheists who care so much as to want the word "God" taken out of everything to do with the country are not so much insane as they are varying degrees of stupid. They have a somewhat valid reason, but I just say drop it.

Second. Tell me, how many people here are offended by god in the inaugural oath?

 

[theallmightybob]

(Sorry to do this to this thread, I really am, but it has to be done...)

Pascal's wager doesn't work. At all.... (awesome explanation that is way to long to quote without making a big box)

I like that. It makes religion out to be like some cosmic soul lottery. "I'm sorry sir you picked the wrong religion, that's an eternity of your soul buried under the muddy roots of of bob the tree god."

 

[BlackAsgard]

In a country full of Believers and Nonbelievers, Christians and Atheists, Muslims and Naturalists, it is the duty of the government not to treat any particular organization favorably.

Hence I am in favor of removing it, not on the grounds that there is or is not a god, for I honestly don't know, nor particularly care, because it amounts to absolute chaos on one end with the illusion of civilization and meaning, or that we're automatons on the other, which isn't particularly enticing, either. Rather, I favor the removal on grounds of fairness.

To quote myself when I felt it was necessary to pick a side in the Great Debate and pretend I had any idea what the hell I was talking about, "Stay out of my court, and I'll stay out of your sermon!"

 

[Fronken]

If your a religious man, good for you, go pray on your own time, dont bring your own belief into politics that affects alot of people that dont believe in what you do.

Which is different from an atheist who brings their beliefs into politics and affects a lot of people that don't believe the way they do?

thats the way its supposed to be, religion and politics are 2 different things, and they should not mix, why?, because every single religion is based on rules and guidelines that were created for society thousands of years ago, there's no reason that todays society should live by rules that arent even valid today.

Dont get me wrong, i have alot of respect for religious people, my best friend for example is a christian, but that doesnt change the fact that religion has no place in politics, politics is supposed to be about the people, not about god.

 

[joystickjunki3]

If Obama believes in God, then having him swear to God makes sense. If he didn't believe in God I would say yeah, don't make him say it, but when someone that believes in God says "so help me God", it means that if they don't keep their promise they'll be letting their god down.

I completely second that. However, most people need to grasp that our Founding Fathers, when they drafted our governmental documents, didn't see "God" the same way most Americans currently do. It was a concept, not a being. So when people are sworn in, they're swearing to whatever they hold as authority in their own world, not necessarily to the Christian God.

 

[BlackAsgard]

If your a religious man, good for you, go pray on your own time, dont bring your own belief into politics that affects alot of people that dont believe in what you do.

Which is different from an atheist who brings their beliefs into politics and affects a lot of people that don't believe the way they do?

thats the way its supposed to be, religion and politics are 2 different things, and they should not mix, why?, because every single religion is based on rules and guidelines that were created for society thousands of years ago, there's no reason that todays society should live by rules that arent even valid today.

Dont get me wrong, i have alot of respect for religious people, my best friend for example is a christian, but that doesnt change the fact that religion has no place in politics, politics is supposed to be about the people, not about god.

Scientology was INVENTED what, 50 some odd years ago?

In every religion, save a few rare exceptions, there exists a unanimous moral philosophy, like the hard, wise core of peace. It says, do not kill, do not rape or steal or lie, be honest and true to the fullest extent of your human ability. Take joy in life, and work through your sorrows. Beyond that they might differ.

What we as people need to realize is that our religions, though their faces may be vastly different, their stories conflicting and their messages veiled, share a common set of values that has existed before even the sun-worshipers howled at dawn and mourned at dusk.

 

[mark_n_b]

1. The United states is a Christian nation if you ever start wondering why Obama and family are going to church every Sunday from now on. This isn't a shot at atheism, it is like: If you want Christmas Day off, you shouldn't work in Israel

2. Religious topics are always a point of tension and conflict that would otherwise simply not exist on these forums (yes this is one). This is a deeply personal topic that connects back to strongly held beliefs, culture, family, and history. Of course someone is going to get angry or have their feelings hurt. I encourage all members on these forums to not start or post to these threads.

We've been doing soooo good with it so far this year, let's try not revisit this again.

Thanks all

 

[samsprinkle]

silly evangical atheist! OH look at me I have no religion! And the rest of you should be the same you faithful heretics!