Autistic UK Hacker faces being shipped out to the US.

[Mekado]

Its a Federal crime he "breached national security". He will not be going to county jail.

I'm not talking about county jails, i'm talking about federal prison camps,the kind of place they sent martha stewart to y'know... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alderson_Federal_Prison_Camp)

Federal level ALSO have a minimum-security level in case you didn't know, it's not all Supermax prisons.They do NOT send people who commit "white collar" crimes (fraud,etc) in with the murderers,arsonists,rapists,etc...

Also people put this in your head:
UP TO SIXTY YEARS DOES NOT MEAN HE'LL GET SIXTY YEARS, STOP SAYING IT LIKE IT'S A DONE DEAL.

 

[FalloutJack]

No one man (or woman) knows the whole of the autistic spectrum, but I've seen wide and varied cases of people with Aspergers. I've worked with them. I know things. Can we have the people who don't actually know the syndrome stop talking about it? It's like a really bad fart in an elevator, as I've seen so far. The snap judgements on this issue, the using of Wikipedia as reliable intel when it can be changed around by anyone, and the general misinterpretation of autism anyway...isn't fucking helping.

Here...is the problem. You DO punish people for wrong. You DO NOT pretty much destroy their lives over it for all the wrong reasons. This distinction will guide us well.

He is 43, and 60 years of punishment for UFO-hunting IS THE END OF THE WORLD FOR HIM. Nevermind the Aspergers and forget who his cellmates are. Do the math. You have effectively ended his life for an accident if he gets full sentence, which some of you in this thread don't mind him getting. Provided he doesn't die of old age and natural causes while still behind bars (or of anything else), what sort of life will he have once he's out?

This matter must be handled properly. Put simply, when people do wrong, you have to give them the RIGHT kind of punishment. Not necessarily because of who they are, but because we want people not to do that thing. You're just suppose to make him not do it again. Burying him in prison for that long does not teach a learning experience that one picks up in life and grows along with to mature into a better person. It only proves that assholes get in high places.

The highest wisdom is the one that considers carefully. We have severe punishments for severe people, murdering bastards and crap like that. The analogy about breaking and entering but not stealing has a good ring, but you need to enhance that with the idea that agreements and compensations can be agreed upon. Deals can be made. Only the truly malicious should by deprived of the claim of harmlessness. If he is harmless, then we make this particular event unpleasant for him and give him a light sentence, far more lenient than ruining him. Repeated offense would be different, as any judge can see, but this is not worth pumping into the full-on that seems to be developing here.

 

[barryween]

Mentally underdeveloped or not, he has no right to hack into the US governments computers, no matter what he was looking for. He could have dangerous files and be a threat to us and even if he DOES have Asperger's syndrome he should know better. So I think the US is doing something that needs to be done, I mean, he could have done some major damage had he wanted to.

yeah, but really, he wants Info on UFO's not nukes, 60 years is far too harsh.

Again, while 60 years is WAY too harsh, how do we know he was looking for UFO info? Did he TELL us!? oh yeah, he did, so let's believe him! If he can't "control" himself enough to not hack into the US government's system, who's to say he has enough "control" to tell the truth? People lie all the time. He could be no different.

 

[A random person]

Even with Aspergers, he knew he was breaking the law and therefore should be treated as the criminal he is.
He should be given to the US as frankly the UK judicial system is nothing short of a joke.

Hah, and you think the US is any better? Please.

well the guy needs to be tried in America

Why? Is killing an American during a mugging on British soil also worthy of extradition as it's "attacking America"?

Please? Liberal much?
Try looking at the facts. British sentences are ridiculously short. In the UK, a life sentence can mean only 15 years, whereas in the US it is usually a minimum of 25 years. Not to mention, the dole completely removes any deterrent of going to prison.
He should go to the US to be tried as he will actually get a fitting punishment rather than a light slap on the back of the hand, if not a complete trial dismissal in this country due to over crowded prisons.

On the contrary, I'd think 15 years for someone who had no malice would be fine, if not a bit excessive. Hell, I hate this whole notion of a "fitting punishment" since it ignores the one purpose of punishment: deterrence. Punishing for any other reason than that is merely for some bullshit notion of justice.

As for your question that was actually directed at Amnestic, yes, I am a liberal and proud of it. I do not believe in traditional values of authority or that notion of "fitting punishment." To me they are just arbitrary crap.

 

[TheDanimal]

If the U.S. government would just TELL us about the damn UFO's this wouldn't be such a big deal.

 

[redsoxfantom]

He committed a crime in Britain, as a British citizen, as such he should be tried in Britain, as a British citizen

But he did not commit the crime in Britain. That's just where he happened to be located. The servers he hacked into were located on US soil, so for all intents and purposes the crime was performed in the US. Therefore, yes, he should be extradited. Now, should he get 60 years? Probably not, but that's for a judge to decide.

 

[barryween]

Again, while 60 years is WAY too harsh, how do we know he was looking for UFO info? Did he TELL us!? oh yeah, he did, so let's believe him! If he can't "control" himself enough to not hack into the US government's system, who's to say he has enough "control" to tell the truth? People lie all the time. He could be no different.

I new a guy with Asperger's syndrome who was awesome with computers, but he wasn't very good with spelling and English, perfectly normal guy other than that, he was perfectly in control of what he could do. I knew another Guy who had Asperger's syndrome, he wasn't so in control, he was an absolute fruit cake who thought he could do what he wanted when he wanted.

look, the point it that it depends on the severity on his syndrome to judge whether or not he is telling the truth, even then it's never "100% black and white he did this and that full stop." 'Just because he has a mental disease doesn't mean he didn't know what was right and wrong' is an excuse that just doesn't cut it here man, he clearly has something wrong in his head if he wanted info on UFO's. the main thing about Asperger's syndrome is that they are good with some things and bad with others.

Okay, I kind of get what you mean but he shouldn't get off any easier than a normal person just because he had a mental disorder. "HE ROBED THIS BANK BECAUSE HE IS MENTALLY HANDICAPPED" isn't a very good excuse either. And why would he be messed up for wanting to know about UFOs? That is no basis for proof that he is messed up.

 

[Titanguy654]

I want to know if he found anything about aliens...

 

[barryween]

Also, why should he be tried in the UK? It happened there, sure, but it was an attack against the USA. If we follow that logic, let's look at it this way. If I sent a package to the UK that contained a fast spreading poison that killed thousands, hundreds of thousands, why would I be tried in the US? What does the US have to do with this besides the fact that it is my "base of operation"? I should be tried in the UK, since it is there that I attacked. It should not matter WHERE the attack was originated, but where the attack hit and since the attack hit the US it should be tried in the US just like in my hypothetical situation I should be tried in the UK, since I attacked the UK.
The UK really has nothing to do with this, it just happens to be where he lives, so why in god's name would they have any want to deal with him?

 

[Huey1000]

He committed a crime against the US government and should be tried IN THE US. Same thing if an American committed the same crime against the UK government. End of story.

No British person should be tried in an American court unless he(she) committed a crime IN America. I hope "Uncle Sam" (or is it Uncle Tom now?) doesn't use this incident as an excuse to 'invade Britain'...

 

[Low Key]

The reason why he didn't isn't important. He still hacked a US government computer. 60 years is a bit much, but as any American knows, they always threaten with the most jail time possible but then back down for a plea bargain to shorten the time in court.

 

[cleverlymadeup]

A few lines of reasoning I'd like to take on:

1)Crime was committed in UK, therefore trial in UK.
I don't understand net jurisdiction, but until someone comes on who does does, I think we should all clamp down on this.

actually the jurisdiction comes in where the servers are located, hence why they try and get russian and romanian hackers to come to the states after they break into places

so him being extradited is 100% correct and proper

it's happened many times before and it's worked in reverse once or twice too

2)US overrreacting. He's got Asperger's and he was only looking for UFOs!
Yes, he had Asperger's, he didn't do anything serious and he was a bit loopy. I'm sure this will be taken into account. The fact is, though, that a crime is still a crime. As stated in an earlier example, it's not as severe a crime to break into a store and not steal anything - but it still is. It's breaking and entering and it's still a crime. A crime you'll likely be punished less for, but a crime nonetheless.
We can't conflate the US's desire to put him on trial with the US overreacting in an effort to put him away until 107. There's a difference between understanding his Asperger's when he's on trial and giving him a free pass because he has Asperger's. When and if he's put on trial I'm sure the severity of his Asperger's and the role it - and other mitigating factors -played will be considered.

it's not that bad of a disease, everyone is making much more out of it than it is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

he has no real cognitive deficiency that you notice with autism and just has some of the habits and sterotypes of autism, ie repetitiveness and using language in a certain way.

my mom's bf's son has autism, so i have first hand knowledge of what autism is and the difference with asperger syndrome. he is probly very high functioning compared to those with autism, so he knew what he was doing and can stand trial.

No one man (or woman) knows the whole of the autistic spectrum, but I've seen wide and varied cases of people with Aspergers. I've worked with them. I know things.

i do know the autistic spectrum and i've lived with one for several years

 

[Dusty Donuts]

"Hey, US Government? Here's my middle finger."

He committed a crime in Britain, as a British citizen, as such he should be tried in Britain, as a British citizen

That works.
I reckon we should bring back the death penalty I agree with Amnestic.
Go figure, if the US wants to put him on trial, why don't they go into Britain and get him?
Because that's not how it works.

 

[SomeUnregPunk]

If he doesn't get punished then it just tells me that I can go break a window, club a person for a wallet, use a tow truck to jack a car, create hundreds of thousands false ids online to mess around with the stock market so I can make a quick buck, pay off a cop turn a blind eye to speeding, etc.... as long as I can prove I have some sort of psychological problems.

How can you people not see this?

 

[Hallow'sEve]

Hell, if he could do all that, I'd HIRE him.

 

[Akai Shizuku]

So this is the case of Gary McKinnon a 43 year old man who suffers from Asperger's Syndrome and is a self confessed "bumbling computer nerd", who managed to hack into the US governments computer systems and view top secret documents, was he doing it for money or for reasons of terrorism? No he was looking for information about UFO's and now the US government want him extradited over there where he could face up to 60 years in prison, as opposed to a trial in the UK where the punishment would be much less severe.

So what are your opinions, should he be forced to stand trial in America, does the US government have the right to do this, is it right to punish this mentally underdevelopment man in the same way as you would a fully developed one?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8180141.stm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/aug/02/gary-mckinnon-hacker-extradition

The US doesn't have the right. Yes, they were wronged, but this man is a citizen of the UK, so let the UK government deal with it and let the US receive proper compensation for all damages.

The US isn't the boss of the freakin' world.

 

[Straitjacketeering]

Basically, what he did was wrong. On the other hand, 60 years is a harsh penalty. I mean, the guy hacked into the computers, but he did tell how he did it, which helps to fix security issues. And he was looking for damn aliens, can he really be taken seriously as a criminal/terrorist? And well, he said that the US army was using Windows and anyone using windows thinking that it's completely safe is... well not exactly smart.

Macs have 0 protection, but I'm not going there. He was looking for UFOs and now they want him. I wonder why...

Holy shit never thought of it like that... THEY ARE AMUNG US.