Barack Obama and Socialism

[Mistah Kurtz]

Something tells me this entitlement business comes from the bullshit self esteem movement. We start telling kids that everyone is special and that in the end, everyone wins. No one loses in games anymore, everyone gets a trophy. They tell the loser that he was 'the last winner'. Kids don't experience failure anymore and they're afraid to experience it when they become adults. Now we have kids believing that they're all special no matter what they do or what they achieve or how hard they work, and that everyone is equally special. I don't have to explain the socialist undertones to this kind of child rearing. Now look what we have - a generation of Marxist and socialist whiners with entitlement issues that expect the government to take care of everybody.

 

[LordMonty]

I will use the UK as the keystone for saying a national health service in the US would be a good idea there are problems with it and there are sill many private hospitals in the UK that offer quicker more personal services which is good for quality and competition (also the NHS call on them when they are streche, which is pretty fucked up I admit but as i said there are problems)but the UK is not socialist heven we have privatised almost everything over the years - British rail, all the energy services and even parts of the Royal mail postal service which is now open to competition. Here is a quick summery from the BBC.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4061613.stm

Also nationwide healthcare helps the standards of living and gets a small mention in the article below(not what i'd wanted but not got the time to find better sleep time coming) but although we pay higher taxes for it we also gain as a nation from it.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article3137506.ece

I'm tired and can't spare the time to dig around for more sources but have a look yoursrlf, a compromise in the US on healthcare is needed as your backbone work force needs to be looked after even in a capitalist state.
Obama is going in the right direction on healthcare in my opinion, although compared to McCain he's very green and I would worry he may be out of his depth... but McCain's running mate Sarah Palin is insane, seriously retarded and should never have the chance to get the big job. So as an outsider I'll point out they're both pretty much right wing fairly even with this or that going for them but Palin as a massive liability is the swing towards Obama in my opinion.

I hope people take note of what McCain has said of late about his distain for the questioning of Obama's character and the whole known terrorist thing. Let us ourselves not become so extreem in our own views that we ignore other people's opinions. NN keep well.

 

[Mistah Kurtz]

I don't want the government to be my parent, and I don't want to have to pay for the government to be anyone else's. Babysitters are expensive.

According to that logic, why should childless people pay taxes to support a public school system?

Because the spillover benefits of public schools far outweigh their costs. An economy can't thrive on uneducated people - no one will have the skill or knowledge to compete in a global marketplace. However, you could easily turn this around, and suggest, 'well we need a healthy work force to compete as well, don't we?'
Touche`, hypothetical you. To this I would say public school differs from issues like health care because if people attend and work hard in the public schools and colleges (which despite my red hysteria, i feel should be a public service, or at least better regulated in terms of cost) you will be able to get a job that earns you a proper wage so that you'll be able to afford health care for yourself.

 

[Mistah Kurtz]

Something tells me this entitlement business comes from the bullshit self esteem movement. We start telling kids that everyone is special and that in the end, everyone wins. No one loses in games anymore, everyone gets a trophy. They tell the loser that he was 'the last winner'. Kids don't experience failure anymore and they're afraid to experience it when they become adults. Now we have kids believing that they're all special no matter what they do or what they achieve or how hard they work, and that everyone is equally special. I don't have to explain the socialist undertones to this kind of child rearing. Now look what we have - a generation of Marxist and socialist whiners with entitlement issues that expect the government to take care of everybody.

That's like blaming bad parenting on the availability of "World's Greatest Dad" coffee mugs.

No, it isn't. No one honestly believes they're the worlds greatest dad because they got a mug that says so, but a child certainly swallows just about everything you tell them. Children learn a lot in their early years and if you give them a certain message about life they'll often carry it into adulthood - that's why kids believe in Santa Claus and Jesus.

 

[Azeban]

Something tells me this entitlement business comes from the bullshit self esteem movement. We start telling kids that everyone is special and that in the end, everyone wins. No one loses in games anymore, everyone gets a trophy. They tell the loser that he was 'the last winner'. Kids don't experience failure anymore and they're afraid to experience it when they become adults. Now we have kids believing that they're all special no matter what they do or what they achieve or how hard they work, and that everyone is equally special. I don't have to explain the socialist undertones to this kind of child rearing. Now look what we have - a generation of Marxist and socialist whiners with entitlement issues that expect the government to take care of everybody.

Wait a tic...life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

I'm pretty sure health care falls under the category of life. Without it, they die. I think people should be able to buy food (food stamps) and health care (for everyone) under welfare. Not a cent of currency, however.

I don't get you, dude. We're at the stage where the rich people (not you, I'm talking the top 1%) of this country inherited their wealth, not earned it.

You know what I think? Raise the taxes on inheritance! Then the most hard-working people will get the money rather than the most well-related.

 

[Mistah Kurtz]

... but McCain's running mate Sarah Palin is insane, seriously retarded and should never have the chance to get the big job.

Why do you think she's retarded? Because she made a few gaffes? Why isn't Joe Biden a retard for talking about when FDR went on television in 1929 after the stock market crash and addressed the american people about the problem and what to do about it? (Pro tip - FDR was not president during the stock market crash, and television did not exist in 1929)

 

[Alex_P]

Touche`, hypothetical you. To this I would say public school differs from issues like health care because if people attend and work hard in the public schools and colleges (which despite my red hysteria, i feel should be a public service, or at least better regulated in terms of cost) you will be able to get a job that earns you a proper wage so that you'll be able to afford health care for yourself.

By that logic, shouldn't government support a baseline of crappy-but-passable healthcare so that you can get better and then get a job to pay for nicer healthcare?

-- Alex

 

[Mistah Kurtz]

Something tells me this entitlement business comes from the bullshit self esteem movement. We start telling kids that everyone is special and that in the end, everyone wins. No one loses in games anymore, everyone gets a trophy. They tell the loser that he was 'the last winner'. Kids don't experience failure anymore and they're afraid to experience it when they become adults. Now we have kids believing that they're all special no matter what they do or what they achieve or how hard they work, and that everyone is equally special. I don't have to explain the socialist undertones to this kind of child rearing. Now look what we have - a generation of Marxist and socialist whiners with entitlement issues that expect the government to take care of everybody.

That's like blaming bad parenting on the availability of "World's Greatest Dad" coffee mugs.

No, it isn't. No one honestly believes they're the worlds greatest dad because they got a mug that says so, but a child certainly swallows just about everything you tell them. Children learn a lot in their early years and if you give them a certain message about life they'll often carry it into adulthood - that's why kids believe in Santa Claus and Jesus.

No they don't--they swallow the meaning behind the message. That's why even people who grow up to be atheists still give out Christmas presents and treat others as they would like to be treated.

You've just contradicted yourself. You've suggested that athiests carry the message of christmas into adulthood - this is obviously not true according to what said. The message behind Christmas is celebrating the birth of Christ. If you are an athiest, you do not celebrate the birth of christ - thus, the true meaning of christmas has been lost on you. Us athiests only exchange presents because it's a cultural norm, and it's a fun thing to do. The cultural norm tells us that on December 25th we give gifts, and we do it. The cultural norm is to tell every child that they're special no matter what they do, so they believe it.

 

[Mistah Kurtz]

I don't want the government to be my parent, and I don't want to have to pay for the government to be anyone else's. Babysitters are expensive.

According to that logic, why should childless people pay taxes to support a public school system?

Because the spillover benefits of public schools far outweigh their costs. An economy can't thrive on uneducated people - no one will have the skill or knowledge to compete in a global marketplace. However, you could easily turn this around, and suggest, 'well we need a healthy work force to compete as well, don't we?'
Touche`, hypothetical you. To this I would say public school differs from issues like health care because if people attend and work hard in the public schools and colleges (which despite my red hysteria, i feel should be a public service, or at least better regulated in terms of cost) you will be able to get a job that earns you a proper wage so that you'll be able to afford health care for yourself.

Why do you think just working hard will get you a job that earns you a proper wage? What if you are a hard worker, but you're not talented enough to get one of those jobs even with hard work?

Then you aren't a valuable enough member of society to earn the kind of money you want to. Either go back to school to get an education or work more hours, but don't expect the government (ie - everyone else) to pay your way.

 

[Azeban]

Something tells me this entitlement business comes from the bullshit self esteem movement. We start telling kids that everyone is special and that in the end, everyone wins. No one loses in games anymore, everyone gets a trophy. They tell the loser that he was 'the last winner'. Kids don't experience failure anymore and they're afraid to experience it when they become adults. Now we have kids believing that they're all special no matter what they do or what they achieve or how hard they work, and that everyone is equally special. I don't have to explain the socialist undertones to this kind of child rearing. Now look what we have - a generation of Marxist and socialist whiners with entitlement issues that expect the government to take care of everybody.

That's like blaming bad parenting on the availability of "World's Greatest Dad" coffee mugs.

No, it isn't. No one honestly believes they're the worlds greatest dad because they got a mug that says so, but a child certainly swallows just about everything you tell them. Children learn a lot in their early years and if you give them a certain message about life they'll often carry it into adulthood - that's why kids believe in Santa Claus and Jesus.

No they don't--they swallow the meaning behind the message. That's why even people who grow up to be atheists still give out Christmas presents and treat others as they would like to be treated.

You've just contradicted yourself. You've suggested that athiests carry the message of christmas into adulthood - this is obviously not true according to what said. The message behind Christmas is celebrating the birth of Christ. If you are an athiest, you do not celebrate the birth of christ - thus, the true meaning of christmas has been lost on you. Us athiests only exchange presents because it's a cultural norm, and it's a fun thing to do. The cultural norm tells us that on December 25th we give gifts, and we do it. The cultural norm is to tell every child that they're special no matter what they do, so they believe it.

Aww, you ignored me.

 

[Imitation Saccharin]

You've just contradicted yourself. You've suggested that athiests carry the message of christmas into adulthood - this is obviously not true according to what said. The message behind Christmas is celebrating the birth of Christ.

If the message is of Christ's birth, why is it on the day of an old pagan holiday, and contain more pagan-imagery then christian?

 

[Mistah Kurtz]

Something tells me this entitlement business comes from the bullshit self esteem movement. We start telling kids that everyone is special and that in the end, everyone wins. No one loses in games anymore, everyone gets a trophy. They tell the loser that he was 'the last winner'. Kids don't experience failure anymore and they're afraid to experience it when they become adults. Now we have kids believing that they're all special no matter what they do or what they achieve or how hard they work, and that everyone is equally special. I don't have to explain the socialist undertones to this kind of child rearing. Now look what we have - a generation of Marxist and socialist whiners with entitlement issues that expect the government to take care of everybody.

Wait a tic...life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

I'm pretty sure health care falls under the category of life. Without it, they die. I think people should be able to buy food (food stamps) and health care (for everyone) under welfare. Not a cent of currency, however.

I don't get you, dude. We're at the stage where the rich people (not you, I'm talking the top 1%) of this country inherited their wealth, not earned it.

You know what I think? Raise the taxes on inheritance! Then the most hard-working people will get the money rather than the most well-related.

(I didn't ignore you, I've just had about 35 responses to me specifically - can't get back to everyone)
The constitution doesn't give us life, "god" does. "God" also gives us liberty and the right to pursue happiness. The constitution just specifies that the government won't take away those rights. Is the government responsible to pay for someone's 5th open heart surgery who's 84 years old because it would violate his right to 'life'?

EDIT: I actually don't have a huge problem with that. I wouldn't mind seeing an increase on taxes of inheritances of sums over, say, 300,000 dollars. I say this because I don't think we should infringe on people's right to pass down their belongings to their kids, as is most people's intention, but I'm not entirely opposed to using a socialist tactic to combat a socialist result of capitalism.

 

[Mistah Kurtz]

I don't want the government to be my parent, and I don't want to have to pay for the government to be anyone else's. Babysitters are expensive.

According to that logic, why should childless people pay taxes to support a public school system?

Because the spillover benefits of public schools far outweigh their costs. An economy can't thrive on uneducated people - no one will have the skill or knowledge to compete in a global marketplace. However, you could easily turn this around, and suggest, 'well we need a healthy work force to compete as well, don't we?'
Touche`, hypothetical you. To this I would say public school differs from issues like health care because if people attend and work hard in the public schools and colleges (which despite my red hysteria, i feel should be a public service, or at least better regulated in terms of cost) you will be able to get a job that earns you a proper wage so that you'll be able to afford health care for yourself.

Why do you think just working hard will get you a job that earns you a proper wage? What if you are a hard worker, but you're not talented enough to get one of those jobs even with hard work?

Then you aren't a valuable enough member of society to earn the kind of money you want to. Either go back to school to get an education or work more hours, but don't expect the government (ie - everyone else) to pay your way.

So why shouldn't those people vote for Socialism?

Well if you're a talentless lazy bastard with no education who thinks he's entitled to things he hasn't worked for, then you should absolutely vote for Socialism. It sounds like the perfect plan for most degenerates, really.