Barack Obama - so much for change

[beddo]

[link]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8052676.stm[/link]

So it turns out that Barack Obama, who proclaimed that under him, the US was entering a new era of respect for human rights has now decided to continue with military trials for those illegally detained at Guantanamo Bay.

While he is giving them more rights and denying evidence obtained through abuse and torture and refusing to allow heresay evidence if he wants to respect their human rights then they must be tried in a regular court of law.

Trying someone in a military court is a way of avoiding their right to justice. This seems like 'met the new boss, same as the old boss'.

The man who promised hope is now shattering the grandeur ideal of him as a true human rights supporter. It seems as though what he's done is the same old politics we see everywhere; blame the last guy for everything, pretend to repeal their ideas, implement those same ideas in a different way.

So they can torture American citizens but we shouldn't F- That! If someone wants to slice my neck off just because of my religious beliefs I would be more than glad if they got hanged or tortured in order to get info that will save lives. The problem if they are taken to a regular court is that they will have to be freed, as they were not read their rights before arrested. I don't think they would make it 3 steps outside jail, its for their own good. Human rights? someone who does not believe in human rights doesn't deserve human rights, eye for an eye it is my idea.

Firstly I'll address the idealogy; if someone uses torture against your people it does not mean torture in retaliation is justified. Else, how are you better than them? What do you stand for? Values are worth more than lives.

Consider the Rwanda genocide; the Tutsis and Hutus tortured and massacred each other in retaliation. All this caused was immense suffering and social scars that will last many generations. There is no case of one side being victimised; both sides were the bad guys and commited the most horrific acts against each other.

While the US was no where near this level in their treatment of detainees, accepting torture is a slippery slope.

Irrespective, there aren't many people in Guantanamo who the authorities are sure were involved in beheadings and other such murders. Those who were involved are unlikely to be able to provide decent information on the structure or tactics of their groups. Al Queda aren't all that powerful, most of their strategies were taught to them by the US anyway. Moreover, there are more effective methods of obtaining information than toure.

Human rights? someone who does not believe in human rights doesn't deserve human rights, eye for an eye it is my idea.

I hate this argument. If you're a Christian you can't seriously believe this. Jesus Christ himself; God in human form says:

[link]http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=5&version=31[/link]

Matthew 5 Verse 38:

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'[g] 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."

So Jesus invalidates the argument of an eye for an eye and his word over-rules any preceeding religious laws from the Bible.

 

[vampirekid.13]

[link]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8052676.stm[/link]

So it turns out that Barack Obama, who proclaimed that under him, the US was entering a new era of respect for human rights has now decided to continue with military trials for those illegally detained at Guantanamo Bay.

While he is giving them more rights and denying evidence obtained through abuse and torture and refusing to allow heresay evidence if he wants to respect their human rights then they must be tried in a regular court of law.

Trying someone in a military court is a way of avoiding their right to justice. This seems like 'met the new boss, same as the old boss'.

The man who promised hope is now shattering the grandeur ideal of him as a true human rights supporter. It seems as though what he's done is the same old politics we see everywhere; blame the last guy for everything, pretend to repeal their ideas, implement those same ideas in a different way.

ehh, i dont know how to say this without being insensitive but, the people in guantanamo bay barely deserve human rights.

most people there are VERY BAD men.

I did realize that George w. Bush Junior ised the Escapist.

Tell me, how are they bad? What have they done?

most are terrorists, or people plotting attacks against the US, letting them go is counter productive.


also i guess you need to do a tour as a guard in guantanamo to understand but, yeh.

 

[beddo]

most are terrorists, or people plotting attacks against the US, letting them go is counter productive.


also i guess you need to do a tour as a guard in guantanamo to understand but, yeh.

Firstly, don't mis-quote me.

Secondly, where is your proof? How do you know?

Being a Muslim from the Middle East, even one who disapproves of the US does not mean that they are 'plotting' against the US. There has yet to be a full and conclusive investigation on the 9/11 attacks. There is much debate over those who were involved and many other aspects such as an unrelated building collapsing. Without giving into conspiracy theories, there are still a lot of unanswered questions.

The Iraqi was not involved in the terrorist attacks on the US. They had no WMDs. They had one thing; oil. The biggest threat to the US is a lack of it.

If you believe that it's because the US are so determined to enforce democracy around the world, why don't they start somewhere that needs it more than the Middle East like Zimbabwe. Why not put all that effort into helping people in Rwanda?

 

[beddo]

You do realize that the other option was to just sit in guantanamo indefinitely right? These people werent going to get any sort of trial to begin with under the previous administration, they had a slim hope of it but not any time soon. He is doing the only thing he can, give them a trial as fair as possible and move them on with their lives. He inherited this problem, you cant just release them all or bury them there is still a due process to be followed.

You nailed it.​

There's more than just two options. He could sign up to the international criminal court, submit the evidence of any crimes and let them deal with it.

 

[lacktheknack]

The problem is that everyone thought Obama was a perfect being who would lead everyone to paradise. I got this from my friends and coworkers.

I live in Canada. Go figure.

 

[Zersy]

[link]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8052676.stm[/link]

So it turns out that Barack Obama, who proclaimed that under him, the US was entering a new era of respect for human rights has now decided to continue with military trials for those illegally detained at Guantanamo Bay.

While he is giving them more rights and denying evidence obtained through abuse and torture and refusing to allow heresay evidence if he wants to respect their human rights then they must be tried in a regular court of law.

Trying someone in a military court is a way of avoiding their right to justice. This seems like 'met the new boss, same as the old boss'.

The man who promised hope is now shattering the grandeur ideal of him as a true human rights supporter. It seems as though what he's done is the same old politics we see everywhere; blame the last guy for everything, pretend to repeal their ideas, implement those same ideas in a different way.

Look on the Bright side at least he's not Bush
Bush would make them have to suck big bob's dick (Harold and Kumar joke)

 

[Trace2010]

I have to say I'm not an Obama supporter, but if you actually read that article it says that he is improving the human rights of these people.

I'm definitely NOT AN OBAMA supporter...but if I were I'd encourage him to improve the human rights of the 6.5 billion or so people on the planet who are NOT at Gitmo. I would even to pay the taxes required on the bullets he uses to send all of those guys onward. And please, if you're going to close the fishery...send the fish back...we don't need them here stinking up the joint.

 

[xChevelle24]

Yay for Obama bashers!

What would McCain be doing right now, other than trying to live another day in a hospital chair while making sure the southern people have their gun control rights so they can shoot more people who 'trespass' onto their property.

Oh, and I love how people say "He's a democrat, what do you expect." What the fuck does that mean? Democrat is just a title, it doesn't mean he is any different than a Republican, just has a different title in front of his name.

Just because he promised change doesn't mean it's going to come overnight, or over 3 monhts. Bush had 8 years to destroy this country, and sadly, he succeeded. Now, Obama is expected to clean it all up in 4 months? You must be fucking kidding me. I just love the people who look for every excuse to say he is such a bad presidnt. Give him some fuckin' time, and then criticise him!

K thx bai!

 

[Trace2010]

says it all

Not really--South Park is about taking the piss out of everything. Sometimes it winds up being biting social commentary. Sometimes it winds up being nothing more than some smartass kid making sarcastic jokes at the back of the class.

Trey and Matt are tone deaf to when they are doing one as opposed to the other...or maybe they don't care, and it's their audience that is tone deaf and they find that hilarious.

I'm sorry...but you're analysis of this is completely off base (probably due to political/social prejudice)...it took 5 seasons, but Trey and Matt have become excellent satirists...and I must acknowledge good satire when I see it (there is way too many self proclaimed yet single sided satirists making money in this country).

 

[Trace2010]

says it all

To answer the question: soon...very soon...

 

[Trace2010]

[link]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8052676.stm[/link]

So it turns out that Barack Obama, who proclaimed that under him, the US was entering a new era of respect for human rights has now decided to continue with military trials for those illegally detained at Guantanamo Bay.

While he is giving them more rights and denying evidence obtained through abuse and torture and refusing to allow heresay evidence if he wants to respect their human rights then they must be tried in a regular court of law.

Trying someone in a military court is a way of avoiding their right to justice. This seems like 'met the new boss, same as the old boss'.

The man who promised hope is now shattering the grandeur ideal of him as a true human rights supporter. It seems as though what he's done is the same old politics we see everywhere; blame the last guy for everything, pretend to repeal their ideas, implement those same ideas in a different way.

Look on the Bright side at least he's not Bush
Bush would make them have to suck big bob's dick (Harold and Kumar joke)

You act like that's a bad thing in this case...odd.

 

[ffxfriek]

[link]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8052676.stm[/link]

So it turns out that Barack Obama, who proclaimed that under him, the US was entering a new era of respect for human rights has now decided to continue with military trials for those illegally detained at Guantanamo Bay.

While he is giving them more rights and denying evidence obtained through abuse and torture and refusing to allow heresay evidence if he wants to respect their human rights then they must be tried in a regular court of law.

Trying someone in a military court is a way of avoiding their right to justice. This seems like 'met the new boss, same as the old boss'.

The man who promised hope is now shattering the grandeur ideal of him as a true human rights supporter. It seems as though what he's done is the same old politics we see everywhere; blame the last guy for everything, pretend to repeal their ideas, implement those same ideas in a different way.

i dont mean to start a flame war or anything but a human rights supporter is pro lif; against abortion and against stem cells from babies. you can get the same thing from adults. so he is no human rights supporter.

on topic: torture should be used if it keeps us safe from terrorist attacks.

 

[Fbuh]

I think that is a little unfair to judge him so soon into his presidency. He only came into office four months ago. He still has a few more years ahead of him, not counting if he runs for office a second time.

I think what happened is that his campaign detailed change so much that people expect him to perform instant miracles. He has a lot to clean up if America is to change, so it will probably take some time.

 

[Zersy]

[link]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8052676.stm[/link]

So it turns out that Barack Obama, who proclaimed that under him, the US was entering a new era of respect for human rights has now decided to continue with military trials for those illegally detained at Guantanamo Bay.

While he is giving them more rights and denying evidence obtained through abuse and torture and refusing to allow heresay evidence if he wants to respect their human rights then they must be tried in a regular court of law.

Trying someone in a military court is a way of avoiding their right to justice. This seems like 'met the new boss, same as the old boss'.

The man who promised hope is now shattering the grandeur ideal of him as a true human rights supporter. It seems as though what he's done is the same old politics we see everywhere; blame the last guy for everything, pretend to repeal their ideas, implement those same ideas in a different way.

Look on the Bright side at least he's not Bush
Bush would make them have to suck big bob's dick (Harold and Kumar joke)

You act like that's a bad thing in this case...odd.

Well what did they prisoner's do that got them their in the first place ?

 

[vampirekid.13]

most are terrorists, or people plotting attacks against the US, letting them go is counter productive.


also i guess you need to do a tour as a guard in guantanamo to understand but, yeh.

Firstly, don't mis-quote me.

Secondly, where is your proof? How do you know?

Being a Muslim from the Middle East, even one who disapproves of the US does not mean that they are 'plotting' against the US. There has yet to be a full and conclusive investigation on the 9/11 attacks. There is much debate over those who were involved and many other aspects such as an unrelated building collapsing. Without giving into conspiracy theories, there are still a lot of unanswered questions.

The Iraqi was not involved in the terrorist attacks on the US. They had no WMDs. They had one thing; oil. The biggest threat to the US is a lack of it.

If you believe that it's because the US are so determined to enforce democracy around the world, why don't they start somewhere that needs it more than the Middle East like Zimbabwe. Why not put all that effort into helping people in Rwanda?

people dont get detained for no reason.


its not like we go around the world and kidnap innocent civilians just so we can have guantanamo bay full.


realistically i was on your side with doing investigations and so on until i talked to some people that were serving in guantanamo on shore duty as guards....ehh....yeh.

 

[Trace2010]

[link]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8052676.stm[/link]

So it turns out that Barack Obama, who proclaimed that under him, the US was entering a new era of respect for human rights has now decided to continue with military trials for those illegally detained at Guantanamo Bay.

While he is giving them more rights and denying evidence obtained through abuse and torture and refusing to allow heresay evidence if he wants to respect their human rights then they must be tried in a regular court of law.

Trying someone in a military court is a way of avoiding their right to justice. This seems like 'met the new boss, same as the old boss'.

The man who promised hope is now shattering the grandeur ideal of him as a true human rights supporter. It seems as though what he's done is the same old politics we see everywhere; blame the last guy for everything, pretend to repeal their ideas, implement those same ideas in a different way.

Look on the Bright side at least he's not Bush
Bush would make them have to suck big bob's dick (Harold and Kumar joke)

You act like that's a bad thing in this case...odd.

Well what did they prisoner's do that got them their in the first place ?

Considering we only stream media out of Gitmo when something goes wrong (and only through channels that I don't believe are unbiased)...and do not know the rank/file/serial number of every terrorist/political prisoner/hostage there...I would say neither of us can speak for every last prisoner at Gitmo and what they did that put them there. However, I can say that if closing Gitmo is a concession by Obama- I would definitely like to know what the United States receives/received in return.

 

[Trace2010]

I think that is a little unfair to judge him so soon into his presidency. He only came into office four months ago. He still has a few more years ahead of him, not counting if he runs for office a second time.

I think what happened is that his campaign detailed change so much that people expect him to perform instant miracles. He has a lot to clean up if America is to change, so it will probably take some time.

There is a problem with buying at face value a campaign of change and subscribing to the Beavis and Butthead philosophy:

"Heh-heh. This sucks, change it."
"Huh-huh. Change it to what?"
"Heh-heh. I don't give a crap. Just change it."

 

[Agrosmurf]

Well if he has done anything he has changed alot. He has changed the format of our healthcare system, he has changed the possitioning of our relationships with severall countries and so many more things.
now is this change good? thats for you to dicide, but in a debait at my school for why Obama is the most qualified to be president. They siply stated "He will change, and change is good, YEAH CHANGE! BUSH SUCKS! IF WE DON'T CHANGE WE WILL ALL DIE FROM GLOBAL WARMING!" I then asked "please, explain what he will change." They replied, "He will change lots! he will change america to be the best place evaaaaar"

Even my mother had about the equivalent response, I just don't think most people who voted for Obama to change our country understand that change is not linear, change can also lead us to the path of destruction.

 

[aww yea]

he's come into power at a hard time

everythings falling apart and he would do well to just maintain

cut him some slack the pressure he has right now is going to be pretty huge