Bashing the P0rnz

[RaphaelsRedemption]

[:]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess you're a Christian.

And "absolute truth" therefore means "a commandment of God backed up by natural law".

I hav no problems with this. But you haven't mentioned this "absolute truth" before, preferring to cite negative issues which may be connected to the viewing of porn.

I honestly think you would have been better served by putting your main reason first, and then mentioning issues you believe are consequences of porn.

As a Catholic, I know we believe that sex is a gift. It is meant to be shared between husband and wife within the sacrament of marriage.

Porn is not a good thing because:

A. It involves people having sex outside of marriage.

B. It is degrading to the fundamental dignity of human beings.

C. It portrays sex as a casual activity, not as a sacred gift.

D. It often leads to masturbation, which in itself is considered wrong by the Catholic Church.

E. It promotes a selfish view of sex, as something to relieve one's own urges, without considering the other uses of sex, such as an expression of love between spouses and the means of procreation.

I could go on, but you can see my reasons for not approving of porn personally are quite different to yours, and that I express them in a very different way.

I would also like to emphasise that while I believe this to be true, and I am happy to share my views, I would not ever want to enforce them on others who do not hold the same beliefs.[/quote]

Spot on. I'm a devout evangelical Christian. I started this thread with a broad opening paragraph just to see people's opinion on the topic. I didn't want to give all the facts straight away because I rather enjoy open ended discussions. Even if there are many comments which I can't get to.

A. Yes, but what can I do about that? People believe that it is perfectly ethical to do so these days.

B. I would say that it probably has influenced more than a few people to forget what love truly is and only see it as love for a sexual partner. That "meat inserted into orifice" idea that some people may have of love springs to mind lol.

C. Again, casual sex is a norm already. Freedom speaks.

D. The act isn't, but the thoughts associated with it are - according to mainstream Protestant's interpretation of scripture. But we won't get into that for now.

E. Spot on again.

Who says I disagree with you on this topic? The only thing we will likely disagree on are doctrinal issues as well as Theology. But again - that would be off topic.[/quote]

In which case, God bless you, and good luck.

My only concerns at all within this topic have been with presentation of beliefs, as I really didn't know where you were coming from.

 

[Gentile]

And how does any of this change with porn?

If you've been sexually active with more than one partner in your life, then something must have told you in your mind that it's acceptable. So why not take a look at the most obvious thing that screams "Oh hey, look at us - we're having sex with x number of people."

 

[OptimisticPessimist]

Wow. I just...wow. Dude. That's kinda fucked up. I could kinda see where you're coming from, but at the same time I can't. Just out of curiosity, have you ever had sex?

Don't be absurd, of course not.

I'm afraid that this is the opposite of fucked up. This is completely logical and practical. The more we have control over, the less chaos there is the world. And the less chaos, the better.

I sincerely hope this make sense.

No, it doesn't. The most glaring problem I see is that if you've never had sex, what the fuck do you think qualifies you to make that kind of judgement call? The other is that you're talking about taking out one of the best parts of life. I mean, I just cannot imagine a world without sex, but I'm guessing it'd be something shallow and sterile. Sex isn't just a means of reproduction or a source of pleasure, although it serves admirably for both. It's also a level of intimacy that transcends what one feels on a day to day basis. It's a connection, it binds people together. Sex is a celebration of the very things that make us human. To talk so casually, so coldly about just getting rid of that is monsterous. It's inhuman. It's frankly terrifying.

The original thought is that chaotic and unchecked birthrates is going to leave our planet dry. Since adequate space travel is turning out to be a pipe dream, it doesn't look as though we will be able to spread to other planets and use those resources. Controlled birth rates suit both situations of both discovering and not discovering quick space travel. But unfortunately, we cannot control birth rates through artificial reproduction as long as humans are able to reproduce on their own. So my next thought was ''sterilization.'' Unfortunately, this alone would cause massive unrest for generations to come from people who still have their sex drives speaking to them. Which leads to the point that sex drives just get in the way of any plans to control birth rates.

This is not the disappearance of a human's own humanity. Humans still have culture. And they will form new culture in time after sex drives are engineered out.

Allright, clearly we're not gonna agree here. I still think you're crazy, but I generally try to stay away from internet arguements. Bravo for getting me into one in the first place.

I can see things from your perspective. It's a scary thought for most humans I am sure. However, the end will most certainly justify the means. People will be living happier lives.

Fair enough.

 

[Gentile]

In which case, God bless you, and good luck.

My only concerns at all within this topic have been with presentation of beliefs, as I really didn't know where you were coming from.

could have sworn that my name gave it away.

But anyway, thanks :] God bless you too.

 

[Gentile]

-snip-

my 2 cents (canadian)

The Onion always pleases me <3

Ty (But that's expected considering that you're Canadian)

 

[michael_ab]

.................are you debating that people watch porn, that we should expose our children to sex ed earlier, or that porn is good/evil? I got confused reading and didn't click the link.

But yeah, sex is natural, the consequences are the results of the act itself, and "I'm fairly sure if they took porn off the internet there'd only be one website left and it'd be called Bring Back the Porn" - Dr Perry Cox, Scrubs.

I never quite believed in taking people's desires away, even if it is something in which I am against. Free choice is something that I have to respect if I expect others to respect me for making my choices.

/Proof http://www.spike.com/video/truth-about-internet/3052562

I kind of quit taking you seriously after you posted a from Spike TV link...(Which is a hugely sexualized site IMO)

OT: I wouldn't actually say that children are exposed to sex for the first time through Pornography. Every single person that I know well was first exposed to sex with all this talk about "condoms" and "boners"....notice how I said "condoms"?

Your claims of all teenagers now being "hedonistic" are kind of over-blown. Sure, a lot of us want sex at this age, but that doesn't actually mean that we all just go out and fuck whenever we feel like. It's more common for people to just whack it off(which is what the afromentioned porn is for), and not have to deal with the potential STDs and pregnancy. I know this because I AM a teenager in a pretty "sexualized" highschool.

As for the exploitation of pornstars, 95 times out of a hundred they have willingly walked into the industry, so they're obviously prepared to get an STD, get railed in the ass, and fake moaning for hours on end. Only pornstars really have sex with pornstars, so it isn't like they're spreading a lot of it. They also have birth control that they require the stars to take, and government enforced AIDS tests that they need to take once every month.

All that being said, I'd rather have a generation of kids fapping off to consenting adults having sex in front of camera instead of becoming promiscuous and doing sexual acts on camera themselves.

I used the link because it featured semi-erotic imagery as well as a bunch of statistics - which I thought would appeal to you~ But I guess you focus on the superficial.

condoms and boners are probably ideas that they got somewhere on the web anyway. Personally, I never even heard about those terms prior to moving to North America from Thailand at age 9, but I did view porn as a young kid back then.

whacking off is essentially a hedonistic activity isn't it? You can argue that it's the safest form of sex but that doesn't explain how I am wrong to assume (based on personal observations) that many high school students these days have developed a strong affinity for physical pleasures.

As for your last point, you give a statistic that basically says "95% of people would like to suffer irreversible physical and emotional damage to make a living." But I guess we're not pornstars - we're real human beings, so we don't need to care about them.

?! are you serious? no child first learns of porn from the internet, they would need to know what to look for to find it. you dont accidently come across porn, and if you recieve spam for it you are already visiting questionable sites. YOU LOSE YOUR INNOCENCE FROM THOSE YOU TRUST! anywhere else you wouldnt know what your looking at. all those kids in school that are talking about boners? its because their older siblings (who are at right about the right age to have that be the natural focus of their train of thought, in all situations) are talking about them, and the younger siblings are emulating, after that the idea spreads from friend to friend in school, because the little buggers think its the "adult" thing to do, solely because their older siblings are doing it.

as for hedonistic, yes masterbation is hedonistic, only because it is "the seeking and/or fulfilling of personal pleasure for the sole purpose of pleasure"

and you CLEARLY have prosstitution confused with pornography... umm... ok im just going to start from the beginning.

pornography is the graphical depiction of a sexual act, simple as that. so yes there is porno, a lot of porno, that was taken without regard to the safely of the people involved. however that is, for lack of a better term, "indie" porn (like indie games or movies, not actually funded or endorsed by any company, its just a couple people having fun). these people do not have a career in this field, although they may be aspiring to do so. pornography done by an actual studio requires all of their... um... "clients" (i cant call them actors with a straight face) to take birth control, and are required by federal law to submit STD tests every month, at least in the US.

ok thats enough informative ranting for tonight. sorry its way too early for me to bother clipping that quote.

 

[drdamo]

The problem these days is that sex isn't the means to reach the goal of a good relationship anymore.
Sex IS the goal for alot of people and they use (false)"love" as the means to get it.
Which results in more unprotective sex, blind people who believe the lies, blind people who realize the lies eventually and open their eyes again, hate humanity for it and eventually do the same manipulation dance vice-versa.
This is why (female) youngsters trade their body for the things they want. This is why teen pregnancy is up, this is why alot of relationships fail.

Logically speaking its all about the miscommunication with supply & demand.
If you want sex, say it. Go out there, put on your best confident smile and ask the person you want to shag "Fancy a fuck?" It might be too direct for some situations, yet strangely enough it works most of the time.
And if you want love, show love. Play, tease, genuinely show interest in the person and their opinion and don't give in too fast into your primordial urges.

-----------------------------------------
And to make things interesting I'll give my abstract opinion on love. This is a rough translation from a Dutch text I wrote about 2 years ago:
-------------------
Isn't love like water and vice-versa?
Logically concluding: Can true love ever be tamed?(Because true water can't be tamed either, right?)
And if you try to tame love anyway, is that love still love?

Because tamed water, caged, confined, cut off from the flow, will eventually be a breeding pool for diseases, loosing its freshness, no longer consumeable and therefore as good as dead, right?
And if love stands still, you'll eventually become sick aswell, it will be far from fresh and once you realize that consuming it becomes unhealthy it dies like water, right?

So is lust the same as thirst?
And aren't there too many people who want to satisfy their thirst for lust using love?
We don't need a sea's worth of water to satisfy our thirst, just enough to keep us hydrated, right?
And too much water at once is deadly, so why can't too much love be deadly aswell?

We humans are simply too spoiled and it doesn't amaze me anymore that there are alot of people who fail in their quest for love, simply because they want more than they need.
Or (as said above) miscommunication of supply & demand with which you'll only hurt yourself.
Every time we claim more, our base need increases up to a point where love becomes lust; a thirst you'll eventually be unable to satisfy, unless you open your eyes and stop lying to yourself.
-----------------------------------------

 

[Gentile]

You're the one making the point, back it up. Don't ask me to prove your point for you, especially when the information I've already seen on the subject contradicts you. If you have real information then post it by all means, but your other arguments seem completely ass-backwards, so it's hard to imagine you've actually researched this one thoroughly.

http://www.shelleylubben.com/pornstars

Didn't think I had to bring this into light. Ohwel.

 

[AugustFall]

snip

I'm one of those people who believes that the next time he sees a naked woman would be his future wife. And that she would be worth the wait. Because you know - I like to not get divorced in the future. One of the failings of my parents.

That's how I work towards that goal aite? Cool. Just a little case of "in my opinion" - y'know. :]

Correct, in your opinion. Not the opinion of others. Other people, and I don't think I'm wrong in saying the bulk of people, don't hold such belief. You'll find though that the reason couples of old didn't get divorced was not because they only had sex with their wives and husbands but because it wasn't socially acceptable.
I hate the whole "worth the wait" thing. There is more to a long term relationship than "I get to have sex with her."

 

[Kurokami]

I don't think there's been enough of these up for debate these days - So that's reason enough to start one. I will be bashing the thing that takes up 12% of the internet. I'll try to be as factual as possible as to avoid epic backlash for ignoring the facts (Because facts make people happy durrhurr) so please - Feel free to comment on anything. :]

Give or take one or two people in the free world, It's quite safe to say that everybody has viewed pornographic material on the internet to some degree.

/Proof http://www.spike.com/video/truth-about-internet/3052562

Despite being so popular (in the free world at least). It has perhaps unintentionally become the main outlet by which children get introduced to sexuality these days. Which seems to give public schools greater incentive to lower the grade in which sexual education begins. You could probably argue that exposing sexuality to children at such a young age has it's pros and cons but imo - It just adds more fuel to a nasty trend recently where kids' minds become eroticized before they can learn to truly find an appreciation for the ethics behind sexual relations. My take on your normal teenager in high school is that they are essentially hedonists, although most try to hide that fact. If you have any historical perspective on this sort of thing, its actually a recent development in the free world.~

I could go on to talk about the effect of the industry on the actors and actresses involved, but i'm sure we can all agree that we would definitely not wish for anybody we care about to be involved in this business for their own good. What with all the chances of diseases, unwanted pregnancy, physical and emotional turmoil, and such. Right? :] Yes that's why i'll let the focus of this discussion be on you, dear porn viewer. But if you wish to include this factor in your response. Then go right ahead.

If porn was gone, my life would be like watching a well lit aquarium, except it would be a well lit screen. And nothing in it.

What I've read from your post really was "Porn saves parents and children an awkward conversation", that + sex ed went quite well, it was like learning the theory and then seeing it in practice, partially anyway.

 

[Gentile]

Correct, in your opinion. Not the opinion of others. Other people, and I don't think I'm wrong in saying the bulk of people, don't hold such belief. You'll find though that the reason couples of old didn't get divorced was not because they only had sex with their wives and husbands but because it wasn't socially acceptable.
I hate the whole "worth the wait" thing. There is more to a long term relationship than "I get to have sex with her."

You're right. the bulk of people don't hold such belief. But i'm pretty sure that couples who do stay married are couples who have not cheated on one another.

The "worth the wait" thing is a countenance to people who do wish to have sex before marriage. Not "I get to have sex with her. Woohoo."

 

[Gentile]

Something tells me that you're the type of person who believes that our raw human instincts to reproduce were put there as 'tests' by some ulterior motive.
Basically arguing with you is gonna be impossible and I'd like to end this on a note wherein you don't tell me that sex before marriage is wrong.

We're humans. Not animals. I don't think anybody ever called up a hooker to feed their raw human instincts to reproduce.

As for your second point. I agree. end of discussion.

 

[face_head_mouth]

And how does any of this change with porn?

If you've been sexually active with more than one partner in your life, then something must have told you in your mind that it's acceptable. So why not take a look at the most obvious thing that screams "Oh hey, look at us - we're having sex with x number of people."

You're making a pretty big assumption here about what's natural for humans sexually. Who's to say that monogamy is more natural than having as many sexual partners as we can?

I'm certainly not advocating that people go out and try to have sex as often as possible or that we shouldn't strive to have intimate, long-lasting relationships; I'm just disputing the idea that people got the idea of promiscuity from pornography.

We are hardwired to want to have sex with as many people as we can in order to procreate and further our species. That, and not pornography, is why we desire so many sex partners. We had to evolve as a species before we could begin to get past the use of sex as solely a means of reproduction. We are still fighting urges that have been with us for millions of years.

 

[Gentile]

If porn was gone, my life would be like watching a well lit aquarium, except it would be a well lit screen. And nothing in it.

What I've read from your post really was "Porn saves parents and children an awkward conversation", that + sex ed went quite well, it was like learning the theory and then seeing it in practice, partially anyway.

Sex ed has it's benefits, non-prudish parents talking to their kids has it's benefits. But you're one of the few people who do imply that you regularly watch porn. I applaud you for that~

 

[QuantumT]

We're humans. Not animals. I don't think anybody ever called up a hooker to feed their raw human instincts to reproduce.

Umm... so you're saying they're calling up a hooker for some reason other than desire to have sex?