Batman, Batman, Batman, Batman, Batman.... (Me rambling against Batman)

[Saelune]

Having super powers doenst ruin relatability. Having all of them does. And you don't need to be so hostile about it

I made a topic awhile back asking what people liked about DC, and it made a lot of sense to me, and made me less critical of DC as a whole. The answer I mostly got was that DC heroes are more mythical, which kind of yeah, does mean they are ALL less relatable, and ya know what? I do like relating to my heroes. And I do like Marvel more because of it. (Thanks to Stan Lee I should add)

I'm not saying people cant prefer the more mythic figures DC presents, but it does make -me- not as into it. Not like I am some sort of Anti-DC person who wants to see them crumble to nothingness. Hell, I want the DC movie universe to be successful, so I can perhaps appreciate the characters more.

But still, Superman is not portrayed relatable at all, and just some OP guy in a cape. But I get why. Superman, and many DC heroes came from the 30s and 40s when strength and confidence were valued. Most of Marvel's big shots came latter in the 60s and 70s, and I do think these eras heavily shaped both comic studios heavily and to this day.

But thanks for just trying to shit on me and actually the fans of those you are supposedly defending.

Oh, don't be so dramatic. I said nothing insulting or personal, I just criticized your stance on how relatable Superman is. Unless you find me using the word "dumb" to describe your stance personally insulting, in which case... get some thicker skin. Your idea of Superman is so antiquated it's obvious you haven't taken any interest in in the character in at least a long time, if ever. Again, that's fine, but it also completely disqualifies everything you have to say about him. Yes, he was created in the 30's. He's also existed SINCE the 30's and has changed significantly with the times. Yes, he's very strong. There are also dozens of characters in the DC universe who can go toe-to-toe with him, and some he has no chance of beating alone. Sure, he's an alien with godlike power, and those aspects aren't really relatable. But he also has a family. A job. A romantic life. Friends. None of those are relatable? Really?

It's obvious you don't get Superman. Totally fine. But it's not fine to pretend you do. I don't get Spider-man, and I stay out of discussions of his character because I don't get Spider-man.

Superman is boring, and nothing Ive seen has shown him to be anything but that. And I've yet to see a single episode of "Everybody loves Superman" so really, doesn't do much to make him "relate" to me, not that at of that stuff specifically would relate to me anyways.

And if I am out of touch with Superman, well, so is anyone who would help make him popular. So if they cant even get someone like me who is paying some attention, they won reach anyone even farther from, and he will continue to fall to the wayside of characters like Batman.

 

[Fox12]

Having super powers doenst ruin relatability. Having all of them does. And you don't need to be so hostile about it

I made a topic awhile back asking what people liked about DC, and it made a lot of sense to me, and made me less critical of DC as a whole. The answer I mostly got was that DC heroes are more mythical, which kind of yeah, does mean they are ALL less relatable, and ya know what? I do like relating to my heroes. And I do like Marvel more because of it. (Thanks to Stan Lee I should add)

I'm not saying people cant prefer the more mythic figures DC presents, but it does make -me- not as into it. Not like I am some sort of Anti-DC person who wants to see them crumble to nothingness. Hell, I want the DC movie universe to be successful, so I can perhaps appreciate the characters more.

But still, Superman is not portrayed relatable at all, and just some OP guy in a cape. But I get why. Superman, and many DC heroes came from the 30s and 40s when strength and confidence were valued. Most of Marvel's big shots came latter in the 60s and 70s, and I do think these eras heavily shaped both comic studios heavily and to this day.

But thanks for just trying to shit on me and actually the fans of those you are supposedly defending.

Oh, don't be so dramatic. I said nothing insulting or personal, I just criticized your stance on how relatable Superman is. Unless you find me using the word "dumb" to describe your stance personally insulting, in which case... get some thicker skin. Your idea of Superman is so antiquated it's obvious you haven't taken any interest in in the character in at least a long time, if ever. Again, that's fine, but it also completely disqualifies everything you have to say about him. Yes, he was created in the 30's. He's also existed SINCE the 30's and has changed significantly with the times. Yes, he's very strong. There are also dozens of characters in the DC universe who can go toe-to-toe with him, and some he has no chance of beating alone. Sure, he's an alien with godlike power, and those aspects aren't really relatable. But he also has a family. A job. A romantic life. Friends. None of those are relatable? Really?

It's obvious you don't get Superman. Totally fine. But it's not fine to pretend you do. I don't get Spider-man, and I stay out of discussions of his character because I don't get Spider-man.

I don't know. I tried reading the "classic" Superman stories and... not too impressed. I get the character, I just can't stand what he stands for. Overpowered super character? Shallow and boring. Working man with a wife, kid, and friends? Relateable, but boring. A heroic icon who represents what we should all strive to be? I hate that idea for all sorts of reasons, but if I had to sum it up, it's because I hate heroes that represent the status quo. The point is, I have yet to see an interpretation of Superman that didn't grate my nerves, with the possible exception of the Animated Series. Honestly, I think I have to side with Saelune on this one.

 

[BeeGeenie]

You did the title wrong, it's supposed to go: "Nana nana nana nana, Nana nana nana nana Batman!"

Not "Batman Batman Batman Batman Batman"

On Topic, I would argue that people like Batman more than Superman not because he's "more relateable," but because he's more interesting. Superman has always been more of a Marty Stu than Batman. Granted, some writers have taken Batman to some pretty Marty Stu levels, but Superman was a MS from conception, it's his defining trait.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

Why would Superman deserve to be the face of DC any more than Batman?

DC stands (or at least used to) for Detective Comics, the home of Batman and is currently the name of one of his longest running comic lines.

Batman is not just one man, Batman is a idea franchise. His villains, his sidekicks, his city, hell his prison are the most popular in the business.

Also, he makes the most money. Why wouldn't he be the face of DC?

 

[SweetShark]

As I said in a previois Thread, it maybe have to do with the fact Batman is an "underdog" so to speak. Nearly all the heroes in DC as far I know are super humans or even Gods to a degree or ridiculousness.
However Batman is just a mortal man. This give him many bonus points to be awesome alone.

 

[SweetShark]

Also Superman can be a very interesting character if the writers do him right.
As I said again my favourite is the story with him and Sazam.
He is the type of Superman we need.

 

[King Billi]

Every superhero is the star of their own comicbook, the one with their name on it. And all the major DC heroes have their own ongoing titles right now. Batman isn't barging into anyone else's book and stealing the spotlight from them.

Also about the "talent" supposedly being wasted on Batman... They move it around you know? Most noteworthy writers and artists have done work on multiple characters and books.

Geoff Johns is arguably one of the most famous and acclaimed writers working at DC currently and Batman is actually one of the characters he's had the least impact on, only focusing on him in two Earth One graphic novels which are disconnected from the mainstream DC universe.

 

[JUMBO PALACE]

Every superhero is the star of their own comicbook, the one with their name on it. And all the major DC heroes have their own ongoing titles right now. Batman isn't barging into anyone else's book and stealing the spotlight from them.

Also about the "talent" supposedly being wasted on Batman... They move it around you know? Most noteworthy writers and artists have done work on multiple characters and books.

Geoff Johns is arguably one of the most famous and acclaimed writers working at DC currently and Batman is actually one of the characters he's had the least impact on, only focusing on him in two Earth One graphic novels which are disconnected from the mainstream DC universe.

Pretty much this. Batman being insanely popular doesn't mean there isn't good talent working on the other books and creating really interesting characters. What's DC supposed to do? Decline everyone's Batman money because they want them to buy Green Lantern instead? The success of Batman titles keeps the other books afloat.

As for the talent, another good example would be Morrison. He's one of the most famous Batman writers in recent times and he's worked on JLA, Wonder Woman, and Superman along with many other lesser known characters.

Batman is a great gateway drug. Lots of people (including myself) start reading about the character they like and realize that comics are great and start investigating other books.

 

[rosac]

To weigh in on the superman discussion, it varies wildly from writer to writer, but Superman is seen as the icon, the paragon of truth, justice and the american way. He isn't infallible, he makes mistakes (particularly the stories about his youth. He killed a guy by shouting so loud the bloke had a heart attack. Admittedly said bloke was threatening to shoot him and his mum and he resuscitated him). Superman is a symbol of hope in many comics and is actually portrayed effectively as this.

Then there's Clark Kent. He is a normal man. Perhaps overly normal. He has a job, he chases the girl he has a crush on, he has family that care about him and he cares about them, he has a social life. But he has to balance this life with being one of (if not the) most powerful man on the planet.

Superman is not at his most interesting when he's knocking 10 bells out of Darkseid (again) it is when his morality is challenged, when he has difficulty finding another way, when he is reminded that he is in some respects just a man. He is interesting when you see how he selflessly helps others knowing that he can do what they cannot (oil rig scene, taking kids from a cancer ward on a trip and eventually healing them etc.)

That said, there is some horrendous stuff out there when superman goes edgy and becomes an antihero. nah.

As for Batman, there is oversaturation of both him and supes but he is a money machine! After Green Lantern flopped it would appear that DC are less willing to take risks and ensure batman features in their films to attract viewers (he was even in suicide squad for crying out loud). If DC were willing to take more risks and release work for characters like cyborg and the flash on the big screen they could improve their repertoire of heroes in the public mind rather than the "big 3" of supes, wonder woman and batman.

 

[SirSullymore]

I agree with the OP, I also think Harley Quinn is going in the Batman/Wolverine/Deadpool direction. Check out this image from the recently announced Justice League vs Suicide Squad:

Geez DC, can you transparently shill your popular characters more?

 

[Qizx]

Batman is more relatable because well, as unlikely as it is, we can become Batman. We can become rich, smart, athletic...but we cant become Superman...atleast not on this planet. Stupid yellow sun.

Ehh,
This I disagree with. I think Batman has the same level of power as Superman and same unrelatability. You literally couldn't be Batman, and you literally couldn't be superman. Batman has more degrees than any human at his age possibly could, he's stronger than any human his size could be, and he happens to be "smarter" than any human can be.

 

[Saelune]

Batman is more relatable because well, as unlikely as it is, we can become Batman. We can become rich, smart, athletic...but we cant become Superman...atleast not on this planet. Stupid yellow sun.

Ehh,
This I disagree with. I think Batman has the same level of power as Superman and same unrelatability. You literally couldn't be Batman, and you literally couldn't be superman. Batman has more degrees than any human at his age possibly could, he's stronger than any human his size could be, and he happens to be "smarter" than any human can be.

The OP brought up relatability. I honestly don't relate to either characters. Superman is just boring, and Batman isn't.

 

[Qizx]

Batman is more relatable because well, as unlikely as it is, we can become Batman. We can become rich, smart, athletic...but we cant become Superman...atleast not on this planet. Stupid yellow sun.

Ehh,
This I disagree with. I think Batman has the same level of power as Superman and same unrelatability. You literally couldn't be Batman, and you literally couldn't be superman. Batman has more degrees than any human at his age possibly could, he's stronger than any human his size could be, and he happens to be "smarter" than any human can be.

The OP brought up relatability. I honestly don't relate to either characters. Superman is just boring, and Batman isn't.

I'll give you that Superman is boring (I honestly hate both of them) but Batman is just plain infuriating. He needs to put a stupid bullet in the Joker's damn head. I'll stop before I go on my own tangent now...

 

[Cicada 5]

Having super powers doenst ruin relatability. Having all of them does. And you don't need to be so hostile about it

I made a topic awhile back asking what people liked about DC, and it made a lot of sense to me, and made me less critical of DC as a whole. The answer I mostly got was that DC heroes are more mythical, which kind of yeah, does mean they are ALL less relatable, and ya know what? I do like relating to my heroes. And I do like Marvel more because of it. (Thanks to Stan Lee I should add)

I'm not saying people cant prefer the more mythic figures DC presents, but it does make -me- not as into it. Not like I am some sort of Anti-DC person who wants to see them crumble to nothingness. Hell, I want the DC movie universe to be successful, so I can perhaps appreciate the characters more.

But still, Superman is not portrayed relatable at all, and just some OP guy in a cape. But I get why. Superman, and many DC heroes came from the 30s and 40s when strength and confidence were valued. Most of Marvel's big shots came latter in the 60s and 70s, and I do think these eras heavily shaped both comic studios heavily and to this day.

But thanks for just trying to shit on me and actually the fans of those you are supposedly defending.

Oh, don't be so dramatic. I said nothing insulting or personal, I just criticized your stance on how relatable Superman is. Unless you find me using the word "dumb" to describe your stance personally insulting, in which case... get some thicker skin. Your idea of Superman is so antiquated it's obvious you haven't taken any interest in in the character in at least a long time, if ever. Again, that's fine, but it also completely disqualifies everything you have to say about him. Yes, he was created in the 30's. He's also existed SINCE the 30's and has changed significantly with the times. Yes, he's very strong. There are also dozens of characters in the DC universe who can go toe-to-toe with him, and some he has no chance of beating alone. Sure, he's an alien with godlike power, and those aspects aren't really relatable. But he also has a family. A job. A romantic life. Friends. None of those are relatable? Really?

It's obvious you don't get Superman. Totally fine. But it's not fine to pretend you do. I don't get Spider-man, and I stay out of discussions of his character because I don't get Spider-man.

Superman is boring, and nothing Ive seen has shown him to be anything but that. And I've yet to see a single episode of "Everybody loves Superman" so really, doesn't do much to make him "relate" to me, not that at of that stuff specifically would relate to me anyways.

And if I am out of touch with Superman, well, so is anyone who would help make him popular. So if they cant even get someone like me who is paying some attention, they won reach anyone even farther from, and he will continue to fall to the wayside of characters like Batman.

I've met people who said they didn't like Superman before just one story changes their minds. Hell, he's the only superhero Garth Ennis likes. He hates Batman with a passion.

Quite frankly, I've found Batman less and less relatable and the idea that his world is more grounded comes across as comical. Don't even get me started on the outdated idea of a rich, white guy beating down on the poor and the mentally ill being seen as heroic.

 

[Saelune]

Batman is more relatable because well, as unlikely as it is, we can become Batman. We can become rich, smart, athletic...but we cant become Superman...atleast not on this planet. Stupid yellow sun.

Ehh,
This I disagree with. I think Batman has the same level of power as Superman and same unrelatability. You literally couldn't be Batman, and you literally couldn't be superman. Batman has more degrees than any human at his age possibly could, he's stronger than any human his size could be, and he happens to be "smarter" than any human can be.

The OP brought up relatability. I honestly don't relate to either characters. Superman is just boring, and Batman isn't.

I'll give you that Superman is boring (I honestly hate both of them) but Batman is just plain infuriating. He needs to put a stupid bullet in the Joker's damn head. I'll stop before I go on my own tangent now...

I wont disagree with that. As much as I do like Batman, I cannot stand his refusal to kill. Joker and Zsasz deserve brutal deaths, and killing them wont make you stoop to their level. Really, by not killing them two in particular, he is as guilty for every murder they have committed since.

 

[Qizx]

Batman is more relatable because well, as unlikely as it is, we can become Batman. We can become rich, smart, athletic...but we cant become Superman...atleast not on this planet. Stupid yellow sun.

Ehh,
This I disagree with. I think Batman has the same level of power as Superman and same unrelatability. You literally couldn't be Batman, and you literally couldn't be superman. Batman has more degrees than any human at his age possibly could, he's stronger than any human his size could be, and he happens to be "smarter" than any human can be.

The OP brought up relatability. I honestly don't relate to either characters. Superman is just boring, and Batman isn't.

I'll give you that Superman is boring (I honestly hate both of them) but Batman is just plain infuriating. He needs to put a stupid bullet in the Joker's damn head. I'll stop before I go on my own tangent now...

I wont disagree with that. As much as I do like Batman, I cannot stand his refusal to kill. Joker and Zsasz deserve brutal deaths, and killing them wont make you stoop to their level. Really, by not killing them two in particular, he is as guilty for every murder they have committed since.

Damn dude, that's exactly what I say too. Good to finally see someone who thinks the same line, every time I try and say that most people say "But then he's just on their level." no, he's not.

God Speed particularly wise person, god speed.

 

[Saelune]

Batman is more relatable because well, as unlikely as it is, we can become Batman. We can become rich, smart, athletic...but we cant become Superman...atleast not on this planet. Stupid yellow sun.

Ehh,
This I disagree with. I think Batman has the same level of power as Superman and same unrelatability. You literally couldn't be Batman, and you literally couldn't be superman. Batman has more degrees than any human at his age possibly could, he's stronger than any human his size could be, and he happens to be "smarter" than any human can be.

The OP brought up relatability. I honestly don't relate to either characters. Superman is just boring, and Batman isn't.

I'll give you that Superman is boring (I honestly hate both of them) but Batman is just plain infuriating. He needs to put a stupid bullet in the Joker's damn head. I'll stop before I go on my own tangent now...

I wont disagree with that. As much as I do like Batman, I cannot stand his refusal to kill. Joker and Zsasz deserve brutal deaths, and killing them wont make you stoop to their level. Really, by not killing them two in particular, he is as guilty for every murder they have committed since.

Damn dude, that's exactly what I say too. Good to finally see someone who thinks the same line, every time I try and say that most people say "But then he's just on their level." no, he's not.

God Speed particularly wise person, god speed.

I think Robot Chicken also agrees with us.

 

[Saltyk]

I've seen good Superman stories. I've seen good Batman stories. It's probably easier to write a good Batman story.

I'm not saying this because Batman is a bad character. I'm saying this because he is still mortal. He still is fallible. It's easier to write a story about a man struggling to do what is right, even while he is breaking the law, who is vulnerable, and put him against foes who can threaten him and also themselves be liked by the audience.

Superman on the other hand is perfect. He's so powerful that nothing can really threaten him. He's always perfectly moral. He is what we should all aspire to be in many respects. That is not easy to write and do it well. It can easily come off as a Mary Sue and not be accepted or believed by the audience.

 

[SirSullymore]

I've seen good Superman stories. I've seen good Batman stories. It's probably easier to write a good Batman story.

I'm not saying this because Batman is a bad character. I'm saying this because he is still mortal. He still is fallible. It's easier to write a story about a man struggling to do what is right, even while he is breaking the law, who is vulnerable, and put him against foes who can threaten him and also themselves be liked by the audience.

Superman on the other hand is perfect. He's so powerful that nothing can really threaten him. He's always perfectly moral. He is what we should all aspire to be in many respects. That is not easy to write and do it well. It can easily come off as a Mary Sue and not be accepted or believed by the audience.

Idk, In my reading I've found Batman to be much more of a Mary Sue than Superman.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

The people that thinks Batman should not kill let me say this:

Some people deserves redemption, some people deserve to die.