best example of a game that you could call "art"

[Daveman]

Surely art's only purpose is itself, in which case no game can ever be art?

Maybe games can be functional art.

But then it's not art? If it functions, then it serves another purpose other than itself.

So if a painting happens to cover up a nasty stain on the wall, then it's not art. Even if it was done by Picasso or whatever.

You're taking it a little too far and out of context.

Nah, I'm just saying it's a rubbish, pretentious definition.

Well considering art is entirely subjective, I'd like to see you come up with something.

It makes sense to me and fits with my idea of art which, in retrospect, is the whole point.

Well I disagree because anything that doesn't take the view from my window as art doesn't fit for me.
http://www.durhamcathedral.co.uk/introduction/gallery/cathedral

 

[Woodsey]

Surely art's only purpose is itself, in which case no game can ever be art?

Maybe games can be functional art.

But then it's not art? If it functions, then it serves another purpose other than itself.

So if a painting happens to cover up a nasty stain on the wall, then it's not art. Even if it was done by Picasso or whatever.

You're taking it a little too far and out of context.

Nah, I'm just saying it's a rubbish, pretentious definition.

Well considering art is entirely subjective, I'd like to see you come up with something.

It makes sense to me and fits with my idea of art which, in retrospect, is the whole point.

Well I disagree because anything that doesn't take the view from my window as art doesn't fit for me.
http://www.durhamcathedral.co.uk/introduction/gallery/cathedral

"Well I disagree"

...

Duh?

 

[Daveman]

Surely art's only purpose is itself, in which case no game can ever be art?

Maybe games can be functional art.

But then it's not art? If it functions, then it serves another purpose other than itself.

So if a painting happens to cover up a nasty stain on the wall, then it's not art. Even if it was done by Picasso or whatever.

You're taking it a little too far and out of context.

Nah, I'm just saying it's a rubbish, pretentious definition.

Well considering art is entirely subjective, I'd like to see you come up with something.

It makes sense to me and fits with my idea of art which, in retrospect, is the whole point.

Well I disagree because anything that doesn't take the view from my window as art doesn't fit for me.
http://www.durhamcathedral.co.uk/introduction/gallery/cathedral

"Well I disagree"

...

Duh?

actually the crucial word was "because"

 

[delet]

I bolded where I stated why I considered it art. Read the full thing before commenting, please.

I did read it but I didn't see an adequate explanation.

And no, Bioshock is based on SystemShock. Nowhere on that wiki do I see anything related to Bioshock, granted I skimmed due to lack of time. Even if Bioshock were based on a book that'd only make it better, in my opinion.

Yes, I'm pretty sure I'm already aware of the fact that it's based on System Shock 2, but that doesn't mean it isn't also based on Atlas Shrugged.

I gave MY reasons for why I liked it, and why I consider it art. Art is completely up to perception. As I mentioned before, I've seen a pure, one shade, blue canvas in an art museum. I don't consider that art, but some do. I gave why I believed the games to be art. Truly, you could consider just about any game art because of the amount of time spent on them, or how pretty the graphics look. I choose story, gameplay, and my general experience in the game world.

And with Bioshock, what does it matter if it's based on Atlas Shrugged? It's more book like and so it has a greater story? Terrific, I love that and require that in a game that I can consider my favorite. I don't really see your point in mentioning it, though..

 

[ThatsBitch3n]

Shadow of the Colossus, I got as a birthday gift more or less on day one. I saw a video of it on the internet and was amazed by the giants you would get to kill. Once able to play it, I played nonstop and beat it within 2 days. I then did what I have done with no other game and played through a second time, then a third, and a fourth.

Part of why I love this game is how it has almost no story, and yet tells one that is quite profound. Truly, it nearly made me cry for that horse, Agro. I loved it because it wasn't a particularly happy ending, and that gave it a much more profound meaning. I loved the game itself because the game play was quite fun. It was a puzzle where you had to figure out how to get to a weakpoint and stab at precise times so you can do some actual damage.

I found this game to be art simply because of the story told in such a minimal way, and the huge landscape that just begged you to explore it. The colossi, who were truly giants, their size was portrayed excellently. Even now I take out a dusty old PS2 to play it once in a while.

You did not actually explain why it's supposed to be "art."

Now for Bioshock. I loved this game because of, once again, the story. This is the first game I have ever played that almost felt like it could have been a book, especially with the 'would you kindly' revelation. I could see this game as both movie and book, as it had an excellent story. I gasped, my jaw dropped, when I got to the point where I killed Andrew Ryan.

BioShock is essentially based on a book, Atlas Shrugged [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrugged].

BioShock looks and sounds cool and all that, but I see nothing "artistic" about it. It just says "free market capitalism sucks if you take it too far," and that's about it.

Metal Gear Solid series. I have completely fallen in love with the story line. Its just told so well!

Oh God...

 

[caprisun]

final fantasy 10

 

[xXGeckoXx]

Okami, gotta be Okami

Ninja'd

As a narrative bioshock but visually okami

 

[Philomorph]

Ico
A little flash game I just found called "Small Worlds" (available on armorgames.com)

 

[WhizEd]

Braid. Without a doubt.

 

[sramota]

Braid and Psychonauts.
Case closed, NEXT.

 

[coffeeandmilf]

marumas demon blade
the game is practically a moving painting!
the gameplay is not the focus, merely the spectacle, with every image hand drawn with strong feudal japan influences

 

[Skiftnycklar]

Art?
I'm not going to trip into a nostalgic ramble here and quote my past favourites, because I may be slightly biased about ye olde games...
On topic, I'd have to go with Minecraft.

Sure, it's made by one guy.
Sure, it's basically 8 bit 3D.
Sure, it's not about killing hordes upon hordes of enemies.
Sure, it has less purpose than the Sims (What do I do here? Destroy every block until there is no more? Play Capture the Block with that guy? Make that guy fall to his death?).
Sure, it might not feel like it's worth 10$ considering that it's in alpha.

But it has been a long, long time since a game has inspired that kind of creativity in me. It has also inspired everyone I know who has played it, so far.
Every randomised map is an entirely new world to explore, and every block a piece of what could become art with some actual creative thinking. To me, that's art. Doesn't take Crysis-style graphics to make something good, even if it's the 21st century and all.

 

[Halo Fanboy]

It's nice to see that the Overrated Artsy Bullshit Squad (Shadow of the Colossus, Beyond Good & Evil and BioShock) are still getting plenty of head.

Okay, sorry. I'll stop trying to pick fights and answer the question.

Well, I mean, by what do we mean "art"? If we're just talking about how a game LOOKS, then every game is art, and the ones the people here are pointing out are simply GOOD art. I guess it depends on one's definition of art, then.

I'll go with Portal. It's mind-blowingly creative in the sense that it plays like no other game (and in fact is like nothing else, anywhere) and is still commendable for reasons that go well beyond gameplay. It's the kind of game that demonstrates just how versatile and open-ended the videogame medium is.

Well, technically it's like Narbacular Drop, the previous game by the same people that used the same mechanics... but still, thank you. At least you went for gameplay-as-art, not for "pretty pictures and hard to follow story".

And by the way, the reason Shadow of the Colossus is, in fact, an artistic accomplishment is because you don't really want to stab the colossi in the forehead, making you, the player, a reluctant antihero. The reason why Ico is art is because it's not a game about the player, it's a game about the player protecting something else. The reason why Bioshock and Beyond Good and Evil are good is... beyond me. They are a passable Zelda clone and a standard FPS with a kinda neat setting.

Using such a specific definition of art and reducing a work down to its bare essentials seems more like rationalizing your love for a game than a serious evaluation of it. Deciding that art is a game where you kill people you don't want to kill (A lot of games do this for me like Devil may cry 3, Kingdom Hearts 2 or Metal gear Solid 3) or a game about protecting people (how about Resident Evil 4 or Yoshi's Island?) You might as well say that Mario is great art because it is about saving a princess.

@ Original person quoted ; I won't defend Bioshock (it sucks ass) or Shadow of the Collosus (which has enough support already) but beyond good and evil is one of my favorite games. It has the best world I've ever explored among other things like charming story and characters and great puzzles. Other games mentioned consistently in this thread like Silent Hill 2 and Portal are also very good, even though that stupid cube puzzle in SH2 hurt it a lot IMHO.

My definition of games as art in a previous post was like this: a game that delivers an emotional payload in a deliberate way through gameplay.

Because typical elements in the academic definition of art are expression (i.e. communication) and a reactive experience in the observer (that is, causing enjoyment, or rejection, in the person watching). Since games are interactive, they are art when they do this through gameplay, not as much through story or graphics, although story and graphics are often gameplay elements that help deliver the emotional payload.

That is why I said that Shadow of the Colossus making you a reluctant killer of natural wonders was where its artistic focus was obvious: the gameplay plus the graphics plus the story makes you feel conflicted about killing the colossi. It sets out to make you feel in a specific way, and it does so through the gameplay. I prefer the 2d Mario games because they do something similar with abstract graphics and story, so what they do they do with gameplay alone.

But with Beyond Good and Evil you get the same gameplay you get in Zelda. EXACTLY the same gameplay. If Beyond Good and Evil expresses something different than Zelda, it does so through presentation, not through gameplay. A good game it may be, but it doesn't hold up as an artistic achievement.

Well I disagree that only gameplay is important, story and presentation can help a game be art in a ton of ways. Like the Music in Shadow of The Colossus. I still don't understand your justification for why not wanting to kill monsters is more of an emotional payload than wanting to kill them. I wanted to kill the DomZ priest more than I didn't want to kill any collosi which is saying something since I beat him even though interface scrambling is one of the most annoying enemy attacks ever.

What does having gameplay like Zelda have to do with emotional payload anyway (not to mention the Pokemon Snap elements which differentiate it)? Ico has a ton of stuff from previous games (Prince of Persia, Tomb Raider, Zelda) are those amount of times you spend pushing boxes or jumping around not part of the "art?"

Beyond Good and Evil is filled with emotional payload for me. I was invested in saving Hillys and I was even invested in taking pictures of all the wacky critters. You said you didn't know what people saw in the game earlier, so at least now you know why I like it.

 

[Vrex360]

I think that I've said this enough times but seriously Otogi: Myth of Demons is a brilliant example of a game going for artistic beauty over just endless violence and tits. A rare game that still holds up to this day as one of the most wonderfully artistic and spiritually relaxing hack and slash games I've ever played and definetly on my list of top ten games.

Also I have to mention Bioshock for it is equally beautiful, same with Mass Effect and yes even Halo 3 because you have to admit while not the most hyper detailed, the visuals were vibrant and colorful.

 

[Zaksav91]

Max Payne

Borderlands

Shadow of the Colossus

Psychonauts

 

[delet]

I gave MY reasons for why I liked it, and why I consider it art.

You reasons were vague and wishy-washy.

And with Bioshock, what does it matter if it's based on Atlas Shrugged?

I said that in response to you remarking that it could be a book. BioShock is already based on a book.

Regardless of being vague, you could still say the same of all art. My reasons are my own, not based on other peoples opinions. If I wanted to follow the crowd, I'd say Okami, as it's known as art, due to its' different art style, and the fact that I've never played it before.

And Bioshock being based on Atlas Shrugged? If Wikipedia is to be believed, then all that was mentioned is that they read books from the author of that book before, as well as books from George Orwell. In that respect, I could make a game about whatever subject I wanted and then say it was based on Cat in the Hat, because I read it before.

In any case, Atlas Shrugged is a moderately different story when compared to Bioshock. I can see the connection you'd make, but it's still quite different. If you really want to make connections, I think I could see Atlas Shrugged as a prequel to Bioshock. Granted, I take this only from the wikipedia plot summery, so I can't know for sure.