Bethesda: Consoles to be the lead platform for Skyrim, aim to make it ?really accessible?
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It does indeed matter. I don't know how many games I've seen that were ported from consoles to PC with absolute horrible UI or mechanics. This sort of development generally leads to laziness in the porting to the point that the PC version is largely crippled.NinjaDeathSlap said:
One example is Mass Effect 2. The game had one action button for cover/sprint/interact. On a PC there's no excuse or reason to do this other than not wanting to put in the work to actually make the PC version work well on PCs.
None of that to say that Skyrim's interface for PC will definitely suck but there is a much higher likelihood of it with consoles being the focus. Naturally though once it comes out assuming mod tools are released the interface will be improved by the community making the point largely null, but that doesn't mean it's not an unfortunate state that the industry views PCs as second class at best.
....I dont like my favorite devs saying that. Bioware did it...and DA2 happened. Morrowind worked fine. Oblivion worked fine. I still play both on consoles. Did not have to "consolify" the whole game to do that. I swear if Skyrim is not better than Morrowind, I dont really know what I will do...
I really had to read this bullshit before I go to bed... now im in a bad mood.
Next thing you know, they will say that the PC version will only release with DirectX 9...
Bc, ya know... consoles only have DX9... and apparently they like to think 'hey, fuck PC gamers'
Bethesda, I used to love you but not I kinda want to kick whoever thought this was a good idea in the balls
Next thing you know, they will say that the PC version will only release with DirectX 9...
Bc, ya know... consoles only have DX9... and apparently they like to think 'hey, fuck PC gamers'
Bethesda, I used to love you but not I kinda want to kick whoever thought this was a good idea in the balls
The biggest obstacle to mods coming to consoles is the reticence of the console makers. They like have massive amounts of content control and allowing mods goes against that.Platypusbill101 said:
The other major problem is that many of the best mods require 3rd party tools to enable their use. Mods built using official dev tools are one thing for the console makers... letting unvetted 3rd party apps be run on a system that connects directly to their network? Not very likely.
This just covrs titles with built in mod support. Consoles are extremely unlikely to be able to run mods for titles that don't have that built in support.
Raving Pc owners everywhere *Runs and hides*. But seriously, as if designing it for console is going to ruin it for PC. Designing console ports of a PC game is a bad idea..not the other way around.
Bethesda have said they are releasing a toolset for the PC version. So I'm sure any annoying UI issue will be corrected in a short time after the games release. The Darnified UI Mod is a must have for PC version of Obivion. But even before that mod the game was still fun.
I'm assuming you mean the 'accessability' part not the 'console lead platform' part because Bioware have been doing that for years. Mass Effect didn't suffer for being a port (an outsourced one, at that) nor did KotOR suffer for it (except for the low rez cutscenes).Saelune said:
DA2 was the result of Bioware giving it's least talented team a short dev cycle and, apparently, the directive of "fuck canon, bring new players".
They should have done their old trick of farming their sequels out to Obsidian. The result may have been an incomplete, buggy mess but it would have been a GREAT incomplete, buggy mess.
Just be thankful Skyrim wont have a two weapon limit or face-jam with regenerating health. Yeah.
Not a good thing for me, an avid PC gamer, I just hope it won't be a half-arsed game because Bethesda is one of my fav developers.If Skyrim won't live up the my expectations, I will lose my faith in this awesome franchise.Well, good thing there will be mods, but the PC gamers deserve more than this.Besides, I don't see why this is the end of the world.Just because a game is first designed on a console, then modified for the PC doesn't necessary mean it is gonna suck.
I also don't understand this rage regarding RPG stats.Skyrim is meant to be a game that gives the player great deals of freedom, including changing the 'class' of your character during the 100+ hours of gameplay.You can start as a thief and become a warrior later.No more stats set in stone.
I also don't understand this rage regarding RPG stats.Skyrim is meant to be a game that gives the player great deals of freedom, including changing the 'class' of your character during the 100+ hours of gameplay.You can start as a thief and become a warrior later.No more stats set in stone.
Honestly, while this has obviously been beaten to death, the news presents to me two concerns.
1.) The game mechanics will be thoroughly dumbed-down, not streamlined.
Before anyone goes into a rage with this statement, it's nothing to do with Skyrim being developed for consoles vs. PC; it more has to do with the general trend of gaming. RPGs, the style of RPGs I prefer at least (Morrowind, and the old collection of gems from Black Isle such as Planescape and Baldur's Gate), have been dying a not-so-slow death. Modern titles from old powerhouses such as Bioware are more action games than RPGs; same goes with the Final Fantasy series, or Oblivion.
Unfortunately, this is largely console-driven. They're cheap and highly accessible in comparison to a PC; very few people build a $2000 PC if they aren't a serious gamer. Countless millions will buy a console, serious or not. In order to tap into this vast market, the game must be dumbed down. This may involve removing numbers and stats in any way possible (because math is evil, ZOMG!). It may instead translate into cover systems and regenerating health that we've seen in many recent FPS games, systems which in effect destroy the intelligence of how to approach a situation. It's not to blame consoles; more just the nature of the beast (or beauty, depending on how you view them). There are of course countless other methods developers are trying, with varying results.
2.) The UI will suffer.
Now, let me address this in a simple phrase: consolized menu systems in RPGs suck. They just really, really suck. There are two primary reasons for this. The first is that inventories are just too large; you aren't dealing with 5 guns and a medkit, you're dealing with hundreds of keys, quests, spells, alchemy ingredients, whatever. Scrolling is slow. That's why RPGs in the past were designed around highly visible systems; Morrowind was a perfect example. Your inventory didn't have a ton of scrolling because you had high-resolution icons laid out in a grid. This is far more efficient. It is also very hard to work around easily with a gamepad; it almost necessitates a mouse for easy access. I highly suspect the desire to remove a lot of skills and simplify the game is to make the menu systems small enough to be workable; Oblivion's UI was an epic disaster because of the forced scrolling. Scrolling, however, is about the only method developers have come up with for console interfaces (in some disguise or anothe). There isn't a desktop-style option.
Another reason is that there are just too many menus to deal with in a proper RPG. You have your character stats, your inventory, your spell and weapon selections, your map, your quest log, your personal notes, your actual on-screen displays, etc. etc. This is a system that is ideally managed through a series of full-screen windows (or, better still, custom-sized a la Morrowind). Scrolling menus are slow, here; hotkeys are the way to go, and while Oblivion actually managed this OK, Fallout 3 did not. Consider that if I want to check what my RADS level is, I need two clicks; I cannot simply hit a hotkey. If I want to get to my items instead of my stats? Two clicks. I could go on and on. It gets irritating. That the entire thing is rendered in 3D to try and disguise the menu nature is worse; the mouse movements are not as crisp as they could be (and it is not an issue of the game performance).
These two concerns add up to a growing sense of unease about Skyrim. Bethesda can certainly surprise me, and I welcome them to. But the fairly consistent failure of developers to do so is why PC elitists scream when franchises they have grown to love move on to greener pastures. It feels like a betrayal when the console-styled changes harm the overall product. It would be different if they booted up a whole new franchise for it; that doesn't leave the same sour taste in one's mouth.
I guess that brings me to my end point. If Bethesda is intent on producing a dumbed-down fantasy action game with RPG elements, be my guest. But don't fucking attach Elder Scrolls to it. TES is synonymous with RPG for your most loyal core of followers; we expect an RPG out of this, in every sense of the word. All the depth, all the difficulty, and all of the sense of reward when you finally realize you have managed to survive in a strange new world. To attempt a different aim is, largely, a cash-out on an established IP that rightfully will piss off their most loyal of fans. Hopefully they deliver the goods =)
1.) The game mechanics will be thoroughly dumbed-down, not streamlined.
Before anyone goes into a rage with this statement, it's nothing to do with Skyrim being developed for consoles vs. PC; it more has to do with the general trend of gaming. RPGs, the style of RPGs I prefer at least (Morrowind, and the old collection of gems from Black Isle such as Planescape and Baldur's Gate), have been dying a not-so-slow death. Modern titles from old powerhouses such as Bioware are more action games than RPGs; same goes with the Final Fantasy series, or Oblivion.
Unfortunately, this is largely console-driven. They're cheap and highly accessible in comparison to a PC; very few people build a $2000 PC if they aren't a serious gamer. Countless millions will buy a console, serious or not. In order to tap into this vast market, the game must be dumbed down. This may involve removing numbers and stats in any way possible (because math is evil, ZOMG!). It may instead translate into cover systems and regenerating health that we've seen in many recent FPS games, systems which in effect destroy the intelligence of how to approach a situation. It's not to blame consoles; more just the nature of the beast (or beauty, depending on how you view them). There are of course countless other methods developers are trying, with varying results.
2.) The UI will suffer.
Now, let me address this in a simple phrase: consolized menu systems in RPGs suck. They just really, really suck. There are two primary reasons for this. The first is that inventories are just too large; you aren't dealing with 5 guns and a medkit, you're dealing with hundreds of keys, quests, spells, alchemy ingredients, whatever. Scrolling is slow. That's why RPGs in the past were designed around highly visible systems; Morrowind was a perfect example. Your inventory didn't have a ton of scrolling because you had high-resolution icons laid out in a grid. This is far more efficient. It is also very hard to work around easily with a gamepad; it almost necessitates a mouse for easy access. I highly suspect the desire to remove a lot of skills and simplify the game is to make the menu systems small enough to be workable; Oblivion's UI was an epic disaster because of the forced scrolling. Scrolling, however, is about the only method developers have come up with for console interfaces (in some disguise or anothe). There isn't a desktop-style option.
Another reason is that there are just too many menus to deal with in a proper RPG. You have your character stats, your inventory, your spell and weapon selections, your map, your quest log, your personal notes, your actual on-screen displays, etc. etc. This is a system that is ideally managed through a series of full-screen windows (or, better still, custom-sized a la Morrowind). Scrolling menus are slow, here; hotkeys are the way to go, and while Oblivion actually managed this OK, Fallout 3 did not. Consider that if I want to check what my RADS level is, I need two clicks; I cannot simply hit a hotkey. If I want to get to my items instead of my stats? Two clicks. I could go on and on. It gets irritating. That the entire thing is rendered in 3D to try and disguise the menu nature is worse; the mouse movements are not as crisp as they could be (and it is not an issue of the game performance).
These two concerns add up to a growing sense of unease about Skyrim. Bethesda can certainly surprise me, and I welcome them to. But the fairly consistent failure of developers to do so is why PC elitists scream when franchises they have grown to love move on to greener pastures. It feels like a betrayal when the console-styled changes harm the overall product. It would be different if they booted up a whole new franchise for it; that doesn't leave the same sour taste in one's mouth.
I guess that brings me to my end point. If Bethesda is intent on producing a dumbed-down fantasy action game with RPG elements, be my guest. But don't fucking attach Elder Scrolls to it. TES is synonymous with RPG for your most loyal core of followers; we expect an RPG out of this, in every sense of the word. All the depth, all the difficulty, and all of the sense of reward when you finally realize you have managed to survive in a strange new world. To attempt a different aim is, largely, a cash-out on an established IP that rightfully will piss off their most loyal of fans. Hopefully they deliver the goods =)