Bethesda (Makers of such hits as Oblivion and Fallout 3) Says That WRPG's Are More Realistic Than JR
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I wouldn't say "realistic", but someone mentioned the word "grounded" yeah, WRPGs are more "grounded" than JRPGs. no question.
More so then I Belive in a world with weird haired children fighting theseJazzeki said:
Or these....
While one of them is useing one of these as a viable weapon
To defeat someone who looks like this
How a whip can actually peirce metal is beyond me?, Actually can they?
Anywase that's not the point... I Think I added enough pictures.
JRPGs are VERY realistic!
I know I was mistaken for a girl many a time as a teen and I also used to carry items bigger than my body with ease and use them as weapons...what's so unusual about that?
I never however had a mangled face, jumped off a mountain, survived then threw a fireball at a wooden house that never caught fire.
EDIT: In addition, I must add that realism does NOT mean "This is like real life" it means "Oh, this is believable, I think this would happen in the world this is set in"
So for example Final Fantasy XIII having a gravity cancelling machine in a complete cyberpunk setting is completely believable. As is Cyrodil having trolls and other crazy things that try and kill you.
Final Fantasy XIII's seperate dimension and menu based battle system is NOT realistic. Neither is Oblivion's guards automatically knowing if you've stolen something even though no one saw you.
I know I was mistaken for a girl many a time as a teen and I also used to carry items bigger than my body with ease and use them as weapons...what's so unusual about that?
I never however had a mangled face, jumped off a mountain, survived then threw a fireball at a wooden house that never caught fire.
EDIT: In addition, I must add that realism does NOT mean "This is like real life" it means "Oh, this is believable, I think this would happen in the world this is set in"
So for example Final Fantasy XIII having a gravity cancelling machine in a complete cyberpunk setting is completely believable. As is Cyrodil having trolls and other crazy things that try and kill you.
Final Fantasy XIII's seperate dimension and menu based battle system is NOT realistic. Neither is Oblivion's guards automatically knowing if you've stolen something even though no one saw you.
Well this is a silly. However, I think people are looking at this the wrong way. I think if we switch from more or less realistic to more or less over-the-top and out there crazy ridiculous people start to agree more. And really he may have said something kinda dumb, but he wasn't saying it was a bad game. When I want something in the crazy over-the-top fantastical adventure department, I go with JRPG.
(Of course, I didn't read all the pages, so maybe that happened)
(Of course, I didn't read all the pages, so maybe that happened)
but again i take it you do belive in wizards and dragons then?Javarock said:More so then I Belive in a world with weird haired children fighting theseJazzeki said:
Or these....
While one of them is useing one of these as a viable weapon
To defeat someone who looks like this
How a whip can actually peirce metal is beyond me?, Actually can they?
Anywase that's not the point... I Think I added enough pictures.
we've just decided we should only acknowledge the things that are realistic at all and focus soley on them so i'm asking do you truely belive the middel ages were anything like a standard fantasy world?
i'm sorry but i can't take you seriously when you are trying to argue "that is so unrealistic compared to my pet dragon" you sound like an insane person wrap up in so many delusions.
again i'm not saying JRPGs are realistic i'm saying the notion that WRPGs should be any better at this is hilariously wrong since it is clearly just as unrealistic we have simplyu gotten used to it by now so we can better relate to it.
How this thread goes.
1. Random WRPG fanboy comes in, says a strawman about how ALL JRPGs suffer the problems of the trashy ones.
2. Random JRPG fanboy comes in, says that WRPGs aren't that much more realistic.
Repeat ad nauseam.
I'd like to point something out here: Fallout 3/new vegas are, in no sense of the word, realistic.
1. Ghouls mutated by radiation? Radiation doesn't work like that.
Here's a few based on what my character has done.
2. Greatly slowed down time in order to shoot someone in the head four times in rapid succession.
3. Walked through automatic fire without taking any real damage.
4. My character has perfectly maintained Pompadour hair despite the wasteland having any level of proper hair gel.
5. Everyone has perfectly clean tighty-whities despite it being a wasteland.
6. Oh yeah, and children are IMMORTAL. If they even exist at all.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to be wearing my +agility jumpsuit and my +energy weapon hat and gonna kill myself a 40-foot-tall, super pissed off, super mutant. WITH MA LASERS.
Can we close this thread, please? No real discussion is happening. People are just shouting their opinions to an empty void.
1. Random WRPG fanboy comes in, says a strawman about how ALL JRPGs suffer the problems of the trashy ones.
2. Random JRPG fanboy comes in, says that WRPGs aren't that much more realistic.
Repeat ad nauseam.
I'd like to point something out here: Fallout 3/new vegas are, in no sense of the word, realistic.
1. Ghouls mutated by radiation? Radiation doesn't work like that.
Here's a few based on what my character has done.
2. Greatly slowed down time in order to shoot someone in the head four times in rapid succession.
3. Walked through automatic fire without taking any real damage.
4. My character has perfectly maintained Pompadour hair despite the wasteland having any level of proper hair gel.
5. Everyone has perfectly clean tighty-whities despite it being a wasteland.
6. Oh yeah, and children are IMMORTAL. If they even exist at all.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to be wearing my +agility jumpsuit and my +energy weapon hat and gonna kill myself a 40-foot-tall, super pissed off, super mutant. WITH MA LASERS.
Can we close this thread, please? No real discussion is happening. People are just shouting their opinions to an empty void.
I agree with ol' Bethy. WRPG's tend to be a bit less surrealist, which is pretty much anti-realism.
Edit: Looking over the posts, you guys are missing the point. Realism doesn't mean an attachment to science; rather, it means a world makes sense within it's own laws. It outlined it's world and logic, and follows them. Some big JRPG's have the tendency to make magic-y stuff up midgame, and that's all right. But WRPGs are generally more... not full, but... logical, I guess. Yeah.
Edit: Looking over the posts, you guys are missing the point. Realism doesn't mean an attachment to science; rather, it means a world makes sense within it's own laws. It outlined it's world and logic, and follows them. Some big JRPG's have the tendency to make magic-y stuff up midgame, and that's all right. But WRPGs are generally more... not full, but... logical, I guess. Yeah.
For the most part WRPGs are more internally consistent. JRPGs like to pull stuff out of their asses.
Fallout New Vegas. My character gets shot in the head once (in a cutscene) almost dies.King Toasty said:
Gets shot many, many times in the head during the course of the game. Pffft. Minor injury.
Walking through bullets is another one.
My bullets work on almost every man or beast going. They die horribly. Shoot a child? Bullet-proof!
Bethesda games aren't internally consistent at all.
I actually find JRPGs to be more internally consistent. Sure they have a set of fictional rules, but those rules seldom change without good reason. Sometimes the reason isn't fully explained, or is only hinted at. But it's there.
The old cutscene vs. gameplay argument? No. You can't compare the two, since it's pretty hard to force AI to only shoot your body. Bethy is still internally consistent, because what happens in the cutscenes follows the game logic, and what happens in gameplay follows the same game logic, with exceptions.Chibz said:
Then there's stuff like children being immortal. Bethesda has almost no place to talk about realism. Also he said realism, not "internal consistency". This is just an example of either CEO Stupidity or simply using the wrong word [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouKeepUsingThatWord].King Toasty said:
So much wasted thoughts and such a pointless argument. If you like JRPGs, play them. If you like WRPGs, play THEM! Don't get ur balls tangled up just because someone was all like, "Our games are more realistic." Does that make them better? No.
Anyone saying that any game where you can shoot fireballs and/or fight deathclaws/mutants is realistic should have their right to speak revoked... or throat punched, Either/or. This thread is full of ignorance and bias.
Anyone saying that any game where you can shoot fireballs and/or fight deathclaws/mutants is realistic should have their right to speak revoked... or throat punched, Either/or. This thread is full of ignorance and bias.
First, I don't think the article was using the term "realistic" in a derogatory way.
Second, the Bethesda representative was just bad at describing what he meant by it. I think he meant "realistic" not in the sense that the themes are more believable, but that the moment-to-moment reactions of the characters to what happens around them are more out there in JRPGs than in WRPGs.
I personally loooove Persona 3 and Devil Survivor, but one of its charms for me is the fact that these kids will be faced with apparitions that look like a Freudian nightmare and just go about their business of kicking their butt without batting an eye. Try plopping one of those Shin Megami Tensei demons into a Fallout or Oblivion world and see the fans return their discs for credit at the local GameStop faster than you can say "F.O.E."!
Second, the Bethesda representative was just bad at describing what he meant by it. I think he meant "realistic" not in the sense that the themes are more believable, but that the moment-to-moment reactions of the characters to what happens around them are more out there in JRPGs than in WRPGs.
I personally loooove Persona 3 and Devil Survivor, but one of its charms for me is the fact that these kids will be faced with apparitions that look like a Freudian nightmare and just go about their business of kicking their butt without batting an eye. Try plopping one of those Shin Megami Tensei demons into a Fallout or Oblivion world and see the fans return their discs for credit at the local GameStop faster than you can say "F.O.E."!
Bu
It is not something bad, it's one of the things that makes JRPGs so charming, but you can see how more traditional Western gamers might be put off by those scripts and not being able to identify with the main characters in the game...
But that is a problem with limitations in character animation and AI that are technical, not on purpose... I'm talking about a character fighting a demon to impress a would-be-girlfriend, or worrying about the state of their motorcycle as their world is coming to an end. You can see similar unexpected reactions in Japanese anime, where there are no technical limitations of that kind.Chibz said:
It is not something bad, it's one of the things that makes JRPGs so charming, but you can see how more traditional Western gamers might be put off by those scripts and not being able to identify with the main characters in the game...