I guess it all comes down to what you value in a gaming experience or what kind of game one prefers at the moment.AlternatePFG said:
Bethesda: Why 90% of the community is misinformed
- Thread starter Omnific One
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Omnific One said:As everyone has inevitably seen, there is a massive Bio vs Beth poll running. And, as usual, everyone is attacking Bethesda with misinformation. So here we go:
Myth: Bethesda made all those terrible (and they are) games like WET, Rogue Warrior, etc.
Fact: Bethesda Game Studios has only made TES and FO3 in recent years. So those terrible games are published by Zenimax, the publishing arm masquerading under the Bethesda name. That's like saying Bioware is terrible because they "made" Spore (EA published it).
Myth: Bethesda's pumping out too many games lately. They are all going to be awful.
Fact: Bethesda (BGS)didn't make NV, and isn't making Hunted, Rage, or Brink.
Myth: Bethesda's games don't have a backstory/story and have no depth.
Fact: The Elder Scrolls games have an insane amount of lore. Their lore people can't even keep track of everything. See the Imperial Library: http://www.imperial-library.info/
That's about it right now. I just can't stand misinformation but I still adore Bioware, so don't take this as an attack
I stated my opinion in that thread. Both are great companies, but I tend to like the amount of freedom in Bethesda's titles more.
I think your being a little unfair though in a way. While people won't like me saying so, you have to remember that there really aren't that many hardcore gamers out there. Most hardcore gamers are casuals that like to think otherwise. Bioware's games have great storylines but also tend to be very linear affairs, dressed up with the abillity to decide what path to walk down first so to speak. You'll also notice that due to people finding the RPG elements of games like "Mass Effect" too difficult, Bioware dumbed down the mechanical/state elements to make them easier for casuals. It pretty much shows what their development priorities are.
I am not saying Bioware's games are not fun, they are, and I do play them, I just don't think they are especially deep as games.
In comparison Bethesda's games usually have an okay plotline, that can be ignored more or less indefinatly. The overwhelming amount of content in such games being unconnected to the plotline, and to get the most out of the game, you as a player actually have to head out with your character and explore and dig around. Your not going to see the coolest stuff and fattest loot by doing the main quest line. In comparison if you follow the plot in Bioware's games your going to see just about everything, and the sidequests where you diverse are usually easily marked and pointed out.
When it comes to *lore* I actually think it's about even nowadays. At one time Bethesda had the edge in world building if not plots, but truthfully they haven't done much development since Morrowwind with the majority of books in Oblivion being recycled from that game. Again though, the big differance is that Bethesda's games are not intended for a purely casual audience. In general if you want lore in Bethesda's games you do what a scholor would and head to a library or book store and find a tome on the subject your interested in. There is a lot of information for people that want it, but very few people are like me and will sit down and actually read those books, or see if they can find answers written down somewhere that explain what seem to be inconsistincies (and usually you can). Bioware's take on things is much better for the MTV generation where there is little simulation of scholorship/RP and the information is worked into the dialogues, or loaded as soundbites/buzz clips into a voiced over in-game encyclopedia.
See, one of the things that is kind of cool about Bethesda's games is that some books are VERY rare and it can be quite an effort to put together complete sets of some of them. While there might be hundreds or thousands of copies of some books, others only have 1, 2, or 3 copies in the entire game. While easier to do in Oblivion, in Morrowwind putting together the entire Princess Talara story set was actually not an easy thing to do and counted as a sort of easter egg. I doubt many players even realized there was anything special about it, even if it was mentoned in brief in one of the strategy guides.
The point being that both developers are good, however Bethesda is more for the "hard core" RPG gaming crowd, where Bioware is aiming for a more general demographic.
Honestly though, this distinction *IS* starting to blur a bit because as many long term fans will point out, Bethesda's games have been dumbing themselves down too, at least according to the mechanics. Each installment features less skills and options. Morrowwind was missing a lot of features from Daggerfall ironically, and Oblivion was missing a lot of what Morrowwind had both in terms of guilds you could join, skills you could use, and what you could accomplish with the enchanting system. Being able to fly around the map in Morrowwind was cool, and I was a bit disappointed that they got rid of the abillity to empower yourself to do stuff like that in Oblivion. Even so, Bioware has generally never even had anything close to that, because it's just not open enough for it to be viable. Where is Commander Shepard going to fly to in those fairly confined mission maps? Even on Mass Effect 1 like planets there wasn't enough stuff out there to really mandate that kind of exploration.
....I didn't know people believed those things. I thought everyone knew that Fallout:NV was Obsidian and not Bethesda.
Still love Bioware more than Bethesda. Way more.
Still love Bioware more than Bethesda. Way more.
You havent convinced me to buy a Bethesda game, but you have convinced me to buy the first season of House
I feel the same way. I think maybe it's the lack of multiplayer. Can you imagine how much goddamn FUN it would be with shit like that? Oh but it is only a dream...for now.mad825 said:
To all you deep criticizers, I would love to agree with you if you show me the games you made that has the depth of games like Morrowind or Oblivion.
Lore isn't the problem; it's the sheer shallowness of their characters.Omnific One said:
Just like with a movie, you need a (at the very least) a good script and good actors to craft a compelling performance.
Bethesda can't do that because they spread their content too thin. It's a tradeoff of making the world as immense as it is.
After reading this thread, I legitimately like Bethesda less. I liked New Vegas and I am looking forward to Rage.Omnific One said:
I have.benderinTime said:
Mass Effect 1 - no AMD multicore CPU (or possibly just AMD quadcore CPU) support which made the configuration utility (compulsory through the game launcher on first go) chuck a spaz and refuse to let you into the game. Was eventually hotfixed and could be circumvented by launching from the game .exe instead of the launcher but still a bug and a gamebreaker if you didn't know how to get around it.
Also, while not a bug, the DRM on KOTOR was stupid because it refused to install or run the game if it detected a virtual CD drive or clone program on your system. Eventually patched out but, seriously, fuck you guys. Trying to tell me what other programs I can or can't have on my system just to run your fucking game.
I'm not really bound to any one company so as long as they both make good games that everyone can enjoy why should it be a problem? Also I like the whole myth and fact thing you did and in my honest opinion, they are both good companies with good games, people shouldn't be such dicks about the company that made the game unless the companies are incompetent asses... like Nexon
PS Judge a game on the features of the game, not of the company that made it.
PS Judge a game on the features of the game, not of the company that made it.
It's because people don't like to do research. Also, when a developer also acts like a publisher, some people get confused. While everyone knows that Activision is a publisher, many think that Bethesda is solely a developer. They aren't.
A similar thing happened with Kane and Lynch 2 - that game was made by IO interactive, yet since Eidios and Square published it, those companies get their reputation tarnished too.
Let that be a lesson to all companies - even if you don't make bad games, publishing them can hurt your reputation.
A similar thing happened with Kane and Lynch 2 - that game was made by IO interactive, yet since Eidios and Square published it, those companies get their reputation tarnished too.
Let that be a lesson to all companies - even if you don't make bad games, publishing them can hurt your reputation.
You can stuck on any of the waist-high boxes in ME2 and you'll have to start the level over or from the last save point because you can't simply walk off. It often happens during the Freedoms Progress mission, the railing in the part right before you battle the YMIR mech.benderinTime said: