Bethesda: Why 90% of the community is misinformed

[Therumancer]

The point being that both developers are good, however Bethesda is more for the "hard core" RPG gaming crowd, where Bioware is aiming for a more general demographic.

*looks at Dragon Age, Icewind Dale, Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment, KotOR*

*looks at The Elder Scrolls and Fallout 3*

What the hell are you smoking man?

Now read what I actually wrote.

Not only are a lot of those games so old that they pre-date Bioware as Bioware (Black Isle) but also I addressed several of them directly.

Dragon Age and KoTOR specifically represent the differance I'm talking about. Good games, with good storylines they are, but in the end they are also extremely linear games without much of an exploration element at all.

[snip]

I'm not knocking Bioware, it's simply that I think in the end Bethesda makes better games for a hardcore RPG fan (which I am). Bioware makes better games from the perspective of a more casual player. Both are however good enough where they don't simply attract one demographic though, as a lot of casuals play Elder Scroll games, and a lot of Hardcore players like Bioware RPGs (which I myself do). The style is however very differant and people are going to prefer one over the other when you get down to it.

Wandering around holding the walk button is hardcore now?

Knights of the Chalice is hard. Gothic 2 is hard.
Oblivion is not hard.
Instead of offering a fair challenge, Beth let you exploit loopholes to game their broken system. Time consuming doesn't equal hardcore. TES4 is casual.

On topic: while it's true that Bioware caters to storyfags and Beth caters to a different audience, that also means you can only compare their games on their technical merits and polish.

It's a differnat kind of hard/challenge. It's true, Elder Scrolls games don't put the player's character in constant jeopardy of death. On the other hand finding all of the things in the game is not easy. I gave that tomb as an example of why.

Haeven't played "Knights Of The Chalice", but "Gothic 2" isn't that bad except when you start out. Like the Elder Scrolls games with a bit of development you wind up becoming pretty much unkillable if you know what your doing. But then again "Gothic" games and "Risen" aren't really entirely RPGs either, but Action-RPG hybrids. Truthfully I think they tend to be somewhat easy because while the stats can make things much easier, you can do almost anything in the game by saving and reloading, especially when it comes to combat. Your not going to find an enemy you simply cannot beat under any circumstances until you level up and have better stats. You can for example take fairly basic weapon, walk up to some of the toughest NPCs in the game, and start swinging madly and eventually you'll succeed with the most basic character.

"Demon's Souls" is a similar example, it's a hard game, but it's also not really an RPG. Indeed the stats in that game are so irrelevent compared to player reflexs and pattern memorization that you have people beating the game with basic characters who never raise an attribute or upgrade from their starting gear. In an RPG that shouldn't be possible, yet there it is.

In a game like Oblivion you do need to raise skills, but then again it happens as you play. Even if you "cheeze" the game by setting skills you never use as the ones you advance off of, so everything stays low level, and then fight entirely with misc. skills, those skills STILL raise as you play which is big part of what makes you able to beat a lot of the stuff in the game even at the lowest levels they appear at.

 

[veloper]

The point being that both developers are good, however Bethesda is more for the "hard core" RPG gaming crowd, where Bioware is aiming for a more general demographic.

*looks at Dragon Age, Icewind Dale, Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment, KotOR*

*looks at The Elder Scrolls and Fallout 3*

What the hell are you smoking man?

Now read what I actually wrote.

Not only are a lot of those games so old that they pre-date Bioware as Bioware (Black Isle) but also I addressed several of them directly.

Dragon Age and KoTOR specifically represent the differance I'm talking about. Good games, with good storylines they are, but in the end they are also extremely linear games without much of an exploration element at all.

[snip]

I'm not knocking Bioware, it's simply that I think in the end Bethesda makes better games for a hardcore RPG fan (which I am). Bioware makes better games from the perspective of a more casual player. Both are however good enough where they don't simply attract one demographic though, as a lot of casuals play Elder Scroll games, and a lot of Hardcore players like Bioware RPGs (which I myself do). The style is however very differant and people are going to prefer one over the other when you get down to it.

Wandering around holding the walk button is hardcore now?

Knights of the Chalice is hard. Gothic 2 is hard.
Oblivion is not hard.
Instead of offering a fair challenge, Beth let you exploit loopholes to game their broken system. Time consuming doesn't equal hardcore. TES4 is casual.

On topic: while it's true that Bioware caters to storyfags and Beth caters to a different audience, that also means you can only compare their games on their technical merits and polish.

It's a differnat kind of hard/challenge. It's true, Elder Scrolls games don't put the player's character in constant jeopardy of death. On the other hand finding all of the things in the game is not easy. I gave that tomb as an example of why.

Haeven't played "Knights Of The Chalice", but "Gothic 2" isn't that bad except when you start out. Like the Elder Scrolls games with a bit of development you wind up becoming pretty much unkillable if you know what your doing. But then again "Gothic" games and "Risen" aren't really entirely RPGs either, but Action-RPG hybrids. Truthfully I think they tend to be somewhat easy because while the stats can make things much easier, you can do almost anything in the game by saving and reloading, especially when it comes to combat. Your not going to find an enemy you simply cannot beat under any circumstances until you level up and have better stats. You can for example take fairly basic weapon, walk up to some of the toughest NPCs in the game, and start swinging madly and eventually you'll succeed with the most basic character.

"Demon's Souls" is a similar example, it's a hard game, but it's also not really an RPG. Indeed the stats in that game are so irrelevent compared to player reflexs and pattern memorization that you have people beating the game with basic characters who never raise an attribute or upgrade from their starting gear. In an RPG that shouldn't be possible, yet there it is.

In a game like Oblivion you do need to raise skills, but then again it happens as you play. Even if you "cheeze" the game by setting skills you never use as the ones you advance off of, so everything stays low level, and then fight entirely with misc. skills, those skills STILL raise as you play which is big part of what makes you able to beat a lot of the stuff in the game even at the lowest levels they appear at.

Gothic 2 is an action rpg, yes.
Now Oblivion is an action RPG too, just with a clunkier system so you're more likely to get hit when you try to block. Player reflexes still make enough difference to classify it as action.
Fallout 3 is a RPShooter, so also not "really an RPG".

Non-action rpgs would be turn-based, like the early rpgs and indies.

I suppose you could make a case for Morrowind, as the blocking in ES3 was automatic and your own attacks connected with the mobs on the roll of a vitual dice.

 

[Blondi3]

I'm an avid hater of all things Bethesda. Even things sidelinked to Bethesda. FO3 and Oblivion which everyone seems so happy about, came out BROKEN. I couldn't play 2h in either of them without falling asleep. I loved the games eventually, but that's due to HEAVY modding. I really should thank all of you modders for their hard work.

PS: Bioware is god. I haven't played a single Bioware game I haven't liked.

You be flame baiting buddy! Watch your step or you might piss many people off.

Eh people get pissed off because I have an opinion? What is the world coming to these days... I guess I'm doing something right since the majority is usually wrong.

 

[Rainboq]

I'm an avid hater of all things Bethesda. Even things sidelinked to Bethesda. FO3 and Oblivion which everyone seems so happy about, came out BROKEN. I couldn't play 2h in either of them without falling asleep. I loved the games eventually, but that's due to HEAVY modding. I really should thank all of you modders for their hard work.

PS: Bioware is god. I haven't played a single Bioware game I haven't liked.

You be flame baiting buddy! Watch your step or you might piss many people off.

Eh people get pissed off because I have an opinion? What is the world coming to these days... I guess I'm doing something right since the majority is usually wrong.

Its not your content, its the way you worded it.

And the majority isn't usually wrong.

 

[Slaanax]

Besides good companies can occasionally make a bad game.

What do people have against Jade Empire, anyway?

You know... apart from it using the same story formula Bioware has used since KOTOR (or was it Neverwinter Nights? Whichever came first).

I never played it, I was making a blanket statement that most people don't care about what company makes what game.

 

[Blondi3]

I'm an avid hater of all things Bethesda. Even things sidelinked to Bethesda. FO3 and Oblivion which everyone seems so happy about, came out BROKEN. I couldn't play 2h in either of them without falling asleep. I loved the games eventually, but that's due to HEAVY modding. I really should thank all of you modders for their hard work.

PS: Bioware is god. I haven't played a single Bioware game I haven't liked.

You be flame baiting buddy! Watch your step or you might piss many people off.

Eh people get pissed off because I have an opinion? What is the world coming to these days... I guess I'm doing something right since the majority is usually wrong.

Its not your content, its the way you worded it.

And the majority isn't usually wrong.

I don't see what you mean. *innocent eyes*

Oh, how naive you are...I wish I was still like that.

 

[AnarchistAbe]

Can't we all just get along, and love them both? Honestly children, it's not a deathmatch.

 

[maturin]

I'm genuinely curious about this, do you have a link?[/quot]

the lore was written by the OLD BETHESDA which was fired after Bethesda was bought out and replaced with its current staff. So in essence, they didn't write shit.

I'm genuinely curious about this, do you have a link?

Nobody got fired, and there is no link.

Most of the creative people left the company, and some new lore or backstory is worth a damn, chances are they contract wrote it.

The lore wasn't [/b]WRITTEN BY THEM[/b] which the scenario REQUIRES, and the lore was trashed. Cyrodiil was a JUNGLE until Bethesda changed it to a forest.

Nevermind the stupid jungle. That's just one simple retcon. Cyrodiil was a *place,* with a complex culture and bizarre history backed up by a fantasy world infinitely deeper and on a completely different track than Bioware's excellent character dramas. TES IV turned it into some sort of formulaic Narnia campaign setting.

Lore isn't the same as storytelling.

Daggerfall I've never played, but the reason it isn't in the RPG hall of fame is that no one else did either. I'm under the impression that its central story was, in the era before cinematic, involved stories, quite effective. Morrowind, on the other hand, boasted an unusual type of storytelling. The dialog boxes weren't so great, but the story was the world itself, and every quest and every faction fed into that, reinforcing the atmosphere and the importance of whatever you were doing. In that context, all those random notes and texts really meant something. Bioware builds interactive stories professionally. Bethesda built worlds.

I don't mind the scraps of text approach to lore so much, given that the way Mass Effect, for example, did wasn't much better. As games approach the cinematic and artistic quality of, say, television, they apparently adopt its flaws. And standing in one place listening to people I barely know calmly expound on the political, mystical and philosophical in words that are just barely this side of believable makes me want to click through the excellent voice acting and re-write their dialog.

 

[Rainboq]

I'm an avid hater of all things Bethesda. Even things sidelinked to Bethesda. FO3 and Oblivion which everyone seems so happy about, came out BROKEN. I couldn't play 2h in either of them without falling asleep. I loved the games eventually, but that's due to HEAVY modding. I really should thank all of you modders for their hard work.

PS: Bioware is god. I haven't played a single Bioware game I haven't liked.

You be flame baiting buddy! Watch your step or you might piss many people off.

Eh people get pissed off because I have an opinion? What is the world coming to these days... I guess I'm doing something right since the majority is usually wrong.

Its not your content, its the way you worded it.

And the majority isn't usually wrong.

I don't see what you mean. *innocent eyes*

Oh, how naive you are...I wish I was still like that.

I'm not naive, in fact, look at the poll that inspired this thread, the majority voted Bioware.

As well, you seem to be confusing the loudest with the silent majority, most people have fairly accurate understanding of the world. Its people like you, the elitests who say that everyone is wrong unless they agree with your opinion.

Seriously, that Bioware is god is your opinion, and while you are entitled to it, you are NOT entitled to force that upon others, organized religion kinda preempted you on that one.

 

[Blondi3]

I'm an avid hater of all things Bethesda. Even things sidelinked to Bethesda. FO3 and Oblivion which everyone seems so happy about, came out BROKEN. I couldn't play 2h in either of them without falling asleep. I loved the games eventually, but that's due to HEAVY modding. I really should thank all of you modders for their hard work.

PS: Bioware is god. I haven't played a single Bioware game I haven't liked.

You be flame baiting buddy! Watch your step or you might piss many people off.

Eh people get pissed off because I have an opinion? What is the world coming to these days... I guess I'm doing something right since the majority is usually wrong.

Its not your content, its the way you worded it.

And the majority isn't usually wrong.

I don't see what you mean. *innocent eyes*

Oh, how naive you are...I wish I was still like that.

I'm not naive, in fact, look at the poll that inspired this thread, the majority voted Bioware.

As well, you seem to be confusing the loudest with the silent majority, most people have fairly accurate understanding of the world. Its people like you, the elitests who say that everyone is wrong unless they agree with your opinion.

Seriously, that Bioware is god is your opinion, and while you are entitled to it, you are NOT entitled to force that upon others, organized religion kinda preempted you on that one.

Key word being usually, but hey good example ;D

I'm not confusing anything nor am I forcing my opinion on anyone. You proved your naitivity with that statement, in case you were wondering. It's cute how defensive you are due to something that isn't there. Way to read into things!

Please rage more!

 

[Rainboq]

I'm an avid hater of all things Bethesda. Even things sidelinked to Bethesda. FO3 and Oblivion which everyone seems so happy about, came out BROKEN. I couldn't play 2h in either of them without falling asleep. I loved the games eventually, but that's due to HEAVY modding. I really should thank all of you modders for their hard work.

PS: Bioware is god. I haven't played a single Bioware game I haven't liked.

You be flame baiting buddy! Watch your step or you might piss many people off.

Eh people get pissed off because I have an opinion? What is the world coming to these days... I guess I'm doing something right since the majority is usually wrong.

Its not your content, its the way you worded it.

And the majority isn't usually wrong.

I don't see what you mean. *innocent eyes*

Oh, how naive you are...I wish I was still like that.

I'm not naive, in fact, look at the poll that inspired this thread, the majority voted Bioware.

As well, you seem to be confusing the loudest with the silent majority, most people have fairly accurate understanding of the world. Its people like you, the elitests who say that everyone is wrong unless they agree with your opinion.

Seriously, that Bioware is god is your opinion, and while you are entitled to it, you are NOT entitled to force that upon others, organized religion kinda preempted you on that one.

Key word being usually, but hey good example ;D

I'm not confusing anything nor am I forcing my opinion on anyone. You proved your naitivity with that statement, in case you were wondering. It's cute how defensive you are due to something that isn't there. Way to read into things!

Please rage more!

Calling me naive is like calling a sea urchin cuddly. And you'd be surprised, about just how many people are beginning to take a more objective rather than subjective view on the world, its the loudest people, like the Glenn Beck, who try to keep people from doing that.

You however, seem to be confusing loudest with the majority, and that is somewhat disquieting to me.

 

[Blondi3]

I'm an avid hater of all things Bethesda. Even things sidelinked to Bethesda. FO3 and Oblivion which everyone seems so happy about, came out BROKEN. I couldn't play 2h in either of them without falling asleep. I loved the games eventually, but that's due to HEAVY modding. I really should thank all of you modders for their hard work.

PS: Bioware is god. I haven't played a single Bioware game I haven't liked.

You be flame baiting buddy! Watch your step or you might piss many people off.

Eh people get pissed off because I have an opinion? What is the world coming to these days... I guess I'm doing something right since the majority is usually wrong.

Its not your content, its the way you worded it.

And the majority isn't usually wrong.

I don't see what you mean. *innocent eyes*

Oh, how naive you are...I wish I was still like that.

I'm not naive, in fact, look at the poll that inspired this thread, the majority voted Bioware.

As well, you seem to be confusing the loudest with the silent majority, most people have fairly accurate understanding of the world. Its people like you, the elitests who say that everyone is wrong unless they agree with your opinion.

Seriously, that Bioware is god is your opinion, and while you are entitled to it, you are NOT entitled to force that upon others, organized religion kinda preempted you on that one.

Key word being usually, but hey good example ;D

I'm not confusing anything nor am I forcing my opinion on anyone. You proved your naitivity with that statement, in case you were wondering. It's cute how defensive you are due to something that isn't there. Way to read into things!

Please rage more!

Calling me naive is like calling a sea urchin cuddly. And you'd be surprised, about just how many people are beginning to take a more objective rather than subjective view on the world, its the loudest people, like the Glenn Beck, who try to keep people from doing that.

You however, seem to be confusing loudest with the majority, and that is somewhat disquieting to me.

Glenn Beck is an idiot. Stop making naive statements if you don't like it. You'd be surprised how many people AREN'T and others that don't even care. Even more are just sheep following the herd. Those have and always will outnumber your "enlightened" group. I'm glad you surrounded yourself with intelligent people. I WISH you were right.

 

[Rainboq]

I'm an avid hater of all things Bethesda. Even things sidelinked to Bethesda. FO3 and Oblivion which everyone seems so happy about, came out BROKEN. I couldn't play 2h in either of them without falling asleep. I loved the games eventually, but that's due to HEAVY modding. I really should thank all of you modders for their hard work.

PS: Bioware is god. I haven't played a single Bioware game I haven't liked.

You be flame baiting buddy! Watch your step or you might piss many people off.

Eh people get pissed off because I have an opinion? What is the world coming to these days... I guess I'm doing something right since the majority is usually wrong.

Its not your content, its the way you worded it.

And the majority isn't usually wrong.

I don't see what you mean. *innocent eyes*

Oh, how naive you are...I wish I was still like that.

I'm not naive, in fact, look at the poll that inspired this thread, the majority voted Bioware.

As well, you seem to be confusing the loudest with the silent majority, most people have fairly accurate understanding of the world. Its people like you, the elitests who say that everyone is wrong unless they agree with your opinion.

Seriously, that Bioware is god is your opinion, and while you are entitled to it, you are NOT entitled to force that upon others, organized religion kinda preempted you on that one.

Key word being usually, but hey good example ;D

I'm not confusing anything nor am I forcing my opinion on anyone. You proved your naitivity with that statement, in case you were wondering. It's cute how defensive you are due to something that isn't there. Way to read into things!

Please rage more!

Calling me naive is like calling a sea urchin cuddly. And you'd be surprised, about just how many people are beginning to take a more objective rather than subjective view on the world, its the loudest people, like the Glenn Beck, who try to keep people from doing that.

You however, seem to be confusing loudest with the majority, and that is somewhat disquieting to me.

Glenn Beck is an idiot. Stop making naive statements if you don't like it. You'd be surprised how many people AREN'T and others that don't even care. Even more are just sheep following the herd. Those have and always will outnumber your "enlightened" group. I'm glad you surrounded yourself with intelligent people. I WISH you were right.

Care to look at the number of nonreligious people in the world? The majority may associate with any given religion are nonpracticing, or are atheist/agnostic.

Unfortunately, this is also causing a rise in religious zealots, but these are the minority, but they seem to be the majority, because what they lack in numbers they make up for in volume and activity.

 

[Cyanin]

Ah, when it came to playing oblivion and fallout 3, i was bowled over initially. But the longer you play, the one thing i find can't be ignored with Bethesda is facial expression, very little characterization is brought into it beyond gimmicks or side-quests.

The first time i played Mass Effect 2, (never played the first) Again i was bowled over, but i found it near perfection, other than that GOD-AWFUL resource collection.

In comparison, Bethesda don't include inane aspects to their games, in fact, anything vaguely inane just comes across as world building, (traps, interactivity with landscape, etc).

Both are heavyweights in their league and i think it's a close fight, but Bioware have it for me.

 

[Blondi3]

I'm an avid hater of all things Bethesda. Even things sidelinked to Bethesda. FO3 and Oblivion which everyone seems so happy about, came out BROKEN. I couldn't play 2h in either of them without falling asleep. I loved the games eventually, but that's due to HEAVY modding. I really should thank all of you modders for their hard work.

PS: Bioware is god. I haven't played a single Bioware game I haven't liked.

You be flame baiting buddy! Watch your step or you might piss many people off.

Eh people get pissed off because I have an opinion? What is the world coming to these days... I guess I'm doing something right since the majority is usually wrong.

Its not your content, its the way you worded it.

And the majority isn't usually wrong.

I don't see what you mean. *innocent eyes*

Oh, how naive you are...I wish I was still like that.

I'm not naive, in fact, look at the poll that inspired this thread, the majority voted Bioware.

As well, you seem to be confusing the loudest with the silent majority, most people have fairly accurate understanding of the world. Its people like you, the elitests who say that everyone is wrong unless they agree with your opinion.

Seriously, that Bioware is god is your opinion, and while you are entitled to it, you are NOT entitled to force that upon others, organized religion kinda preempted you on that one.

Key word being usually, but hey good example ;D

I'm not confusing anything nor am I forcing my opinion on anyone. You proved your naitivity with that statement, in case you were wondering. It's cute how defensive you are due to something that isn't there. Way to read into things!

Please rage more!

Calling me naive is like calling a sea urchin cuddly. And you'd be surprised, about just how many people are beginning to take a more objective rather than subjective view on the world, its the loudest people, like the Glenn Beck, who try to keep people from doing that.

You however, seem to be confusing loudest with the majority, and that is somewhat disquieting to me.

Glenn Beck is an idiot. Stop making naive statements if you don't like it. You'd be surprised how many people AREN'T and others that don't even care. Even more are just sheep following the herd. Those have and always will outnumber your "enlightened" group. I'm glad you surrounded yourself with intelligent people. I WISH you were right.

Care to look at the number of nonreligious people in the world? The majority may associate with any given religion are nonpracticing, or are atheist/agnostic.

Unfortunately, this is also causing a rise in religious zealots, but these are the minority, but they seem to be the majority, because what they lack in numbers they make up for in volume and activity.

About damn time, but religion isn't the only form of brainwashing and lemming-control. I know what you're saying, though. I seriously doubt that anything will change without some kind of spark.

 

[Rainboq]

I'm an avid hater of all things Bethesda. Even things sidelinked to Bethesda. FO3 and Oblivion which everyone seems so happy about, came out BROKEN. I couldn't play 2h in either of them without falling asleep. I loved the games eventually, but that's due to HEAVY modding. I really should thank all of you modders for their hard work.

PS: Bioware is god. I haven't played a single Bioware game I haven't liked.

You be flame baiting buddy! Watch your step or you might piss many people off.

Eh people get pissed off because I have an opinion? What is the world coming to these days... I guess I'm doing something right since the majority is usually wrong.

Its not your content, its the way you worded it.

And the majority isn't usually wrong.

I don't see what you mean. *innocent eyes*

Oh, how naive you are...I wish I was still like that.

I'm not naive, in fact, look at the poll that inspired this thread, the majority voted Bioware.

As well, you seem to be confusing the loudest with the silent majority, most people have fairly accurate understanding of the world. Its people like you, the elitests who say that everyone is wrong unless they agree with your opinion.

Seriously, that Bioware is god is your opinion, and while you are entitled to it, you are NOT entitled to force that upon others, organized religion kinda preempted you on that one.

Key word being usually, but hey good example ;D

I'm not confusing anything nor am I forcing my opinion on anyone. You proved your naitivity with that statement, in case you were wondering. It's cute how defensive you are due to something that isn't there. Way to read into things!

Please rage more!

Calling me naive is like calling a sea urchin cuddly. And you'd be surprised, about just how many people are beginning to take a more objective rather than subjective view on the world, its the loudest people, like the Glenn Beck, who try to keep people from doing that.

You however, seem to be confusing loudest with the majority, and that is somewhat disquieting to me.

Glenn Beck is an idiot. Stop making naive statements if you don't like it. You'd be surprised how many people AREN'T and others that don't even care. Even more are just sheep following the herd. Those have and always will outnumber your "enlightened" group. I'm glad you surrounded yourself with intelligent people. I WISH you were right.

Care to look at the number of nonreligious people in the world? The majority may associate with any given religion are nonpracticing, or are atheist/agnostic.

Unfortunately, this is also causing a rise in religious zealots, but these are the minority, but they seem to be the majority, because what they lack in numbers they make up for in volume and activity.

About damn time, but religion isn't the only form of brainwashing and lemming-control. I know what you're saying, though. I seriously doubt that anything will change without some kind of spark.

That spark is coming, the number of people trapped in the working class will cause it.

 

[Blondi3]

I'm an avid hater of all things Bethesda. Even things sidelinked to Bethesda. FO3 and Oblivion which everyone seems so happy about, came out BROKEN. I couldn't play 2h in either of them without falling asleep. I loved the games eventually, but that's due to HEAVY modding. I really should thank all of you modders for their hard work.

PS: Bioware is god. I haven't played a single Bioware game I haven't liked.

You be flame baiting buddy! Watch your step or you might piss many people off.

Eh people get pissed off because I have an opinion? What is the world coming to these days... I guess I'm doing something right since the majority is usually wrong.

Its not your content, its the way you worded it.

And the majority isn't usually wrong.

I don't see what you mean. *innocent eyes*

Oh, how naive you are...I wish I was still like that.

I'm not naive, in fact, look at the poll that inspired this thread, the majority voted Bioware.

As well, you seem to be confusing the loudest with the silent majority, most people have fairly accurate understanding of the world. Its people like you, the elitests who say that everyone is wrong unless they agree with your opinion.

Seriously, that Bioware is god is your opinion, and while you are entitled to it, you are NOT entitled to force that upon others, organized religion kinda preempted you on that one.

Key word being usually, but hey good example ;D

I'm not confusing anything nor am I forcing my opinion on anyone. You proved your naitivity with that statement, in case you were wondering. It's cute how defensive you are due to something that isn't there. Way to read into things!

Please rage more!

Calling me naive is like calling a sea urchin cuddly. And you'd be surprised, about just how many people are beginning to take a more objective rather than subjective view on the world, its the loudest people, like the Glenn Beck, who try to keep people from doing that.

You however, seem to be confusing loudest with the majority, and that is somewhat disquieting to me.

Glenn Beck is an idiot. Stop making naive statements if you don't like it. You'd be surprised how many people AREN'T and others that don't even care. Even more are just sheep following the herd. Those have and always will outnumber your "enlightened" group. I'm glad you surrounded yourself with intelligent people. I WISH you were right.

Care to look at the number of nonreligious people in the world? The majority may associate with any given religion are nonpracticing, or are atheist/agnostic.

Unfortunately, this is also causing a rise in religious zealots, but these are the minority, but they seem to be the majority, because what they lack in numbers they make up for in volume and activity.

About damn time, but religion isn't the only form of brainwashing and lemming-control. I know what you're saying, though. I seriously doubt that anything will change without some kind of spark.

That spark is coming, the number of people trapped in the working class will cause it.

Once again, I HOPE you're right. I'll remain skeptical till then.

 

[Rainboq]

I'm an avid hater of all things Bethesda. Even things sidelinked to Bethesda. FO3 and Oblivion which everyone seems so happy about, came out BROKEN. I couldn't play 2h in either of them without falling asleep. I loved the games eventually, but that's due to HEAVY modding. I really should thank all of you modders for their hard work.

PS: Bioware is god. I haven't played a single Bioware game I haven't liked.

You be flame baiting buddy! Watch your step or you might piss many people off.

Eh people get pissed off because I have an opinion? What is the world coming to these days... I guess I'm doing something right since the majority is usually wrong.

Its not your content, its the way you worded it.

And the majority isn't usually wrong.

I don't see what you mean. *innocent eyes*

Oh, how naive you are...I wish I was still like that.

I'm not naive, in fact, look at the poll that inspired this thread, the majority voted Bioware.

As well, you seem to be confusing the loudest with the silent majority, most people have fairly accurate understanding of the world. Its people like you, the elitests who say that everyone is wrong unless they agree with your opinion.

Seriously, that Bioware is god is your opinion, and while you are entitled to it, you are NOT entitled to force that upon others, organized religion kinda preempted you on that one.

Key word being usually, but hey good example ;D

I'm not confusing anything nor am I forcing my opinion on anyone. You proved your naitivity with that statement, in case you were wondering. It's cute how defensive you are due to something that isn't there. Way to read into things!

Please rage more!

Calling me naive is like calling a sea urchin cuddly. And you'd be surprised, about just how many people are beginning to take a more objective rather than subjective view on the world, its the loudest people, like the Glenn Beck, who try to keep people from doing that.

You however, seem to be confusing loudest with the majority, and that is somewhat disquieting to me.

Glenn Beck is an idiot. Stop making naive statements if you don't like it. You'd be surprised how many people AREN'T and others that don't even care. Even more are just sheep following the herd. Those have and always will outnumber your "enlightened" group. I'm glad you surrounded yourself with intelligent people. I WISH you were right.

Care to look at the number of nonreligious people in the world? The majority may associate with any given religion are nonpracticing, or are atheist/agnostic.

Unfortunately, this is also causing a rise in religious zealots, but these are the minority, but they seem to be the majority, because what they lack in numbers they make up for in volume and activity.

About damn time, but religion isn't the only form of brainwashing and lemming-control. I know what you're saying, though. I seriously doubt that anything will change without some kind of spark.

That spark is coming, the number of people trapped in the working class will cause it.

Once again, I HOPE you're right. I'll remain skeptical till then.

*shrugs* That's up to you