Big Boobs- why do people complain?
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apparently we have vastly different standards of beauty. marcus is the least unattractive but most of the pictures ive seen of him, from cutscene and screen shots, had him looking rather pig faced (i never played the game, dont have a 360). i find it baffling that you would consider kratos to be attractive. next to pigsy i found him to be the ugliest character on my list. constantly scowling, disfigured, and scarred. i struggle to think of a single female protagonist who carries those same characteristics. and why dont the cartoons relate to this topic? this argument has strayed from the original busty topic and is about attractiveness alone. if the female (human) cartoons in mario are all designed to be more attractive than the male (humans) in mario, how does that in no way relate to what we are talking about? i used the mutated characters in fighting games to illustrate a point that it is more common to see an ugly guy in those games than it is to see an ugly girl. but fine, take your average street fight, tekken, whatever else, roster and compare the amount of ugly guys, to ugly girls (excluding games like darkstalkers, where everyone is a freak, and mortal kombat where, as long as they keep their masks on, all the playable characters look like they just recovered from plastic surgery).Steve Fidler said:The majority of the characters you chose illustrate my point, not yours:00slash00 said:
are just two of the pictures I dug of of the way male characters are portrayed.
None of the characters you mentioned are ugly, short of the cartoon characters (which are not even close to what we are talking about) and mutants. Fighting games have joke characters all the time, but the core characters are generally attempts at attractive characters. Ryu, Guile, Zangief are all muscular, chiseled, built men. They have a body style that is unattainable for most men who don't have time to work out every minute of the day, and are made that way to look cool to guys, and to appeal to women.
There is a difference between beautiful, and sexually appealing. Never heard the term "Women love scars"?00slash00 said:apparently we have vastly different standards of beauty. marcus is the least unattractive but most of the pictures ive seen of him, from cutscene and screen shots, had him looking rather pig faced (i never played the game, dont have a 360). i find it baffling that you would consider kratos to be attractive. next to pigsy i found him to be the ugliest character on my list. constantly scowling, disfigured, and scarred. i struggle to think of a single female protagonist who carries those same characteristics. and why dont the cartoons relate to this topic? this argument has strayed from the original busty topic and is about attractiveness alone. if the female (human) cartoons in mario are all designed to be more attractive than the male (humans) in mario, how does that in no way relate to what we are talking about? i used the mutated characters in fighting games to illustrate a point that it is more common to see an ugly guy in those games than it is to see an ugly girl. but fine, take your average street fight, tekken, whatever else, roster and compare the amount of ugly guys, to ugly girls (excluding games like darkstalkers, where everyone is a freak, and mortal kombat where, as long as they keep their masks on, all the playable characters look like they just recovered from plastic surgery).Steve Fidler said:The majority of the characters you chose illustrate my point, not yours:00slash00 said:
are just two of the pictures I dug of of the way male characters are portrayed.
None of the characters you mentioned are ugly, short of the cartoon characters (which are not even close to what we are talking about) and mutants. Fighting games have joke characters all the time, but the core characters are generally attempts at attractive characters. Ryu, Guile, Zangief are all muscular, chiseled, built men. They have a body style that is unattainable for most men who don't have time to work out every minute of the day, and are made that way to look cool to guys, and to appeal to women.
I think a lot of people are arguing at cross purposes here because they're missing a key part of the argument:
Lots of those opposed to freakish breasts on female characters are also opposed to freakish muscles on male characters.
We're not opposed to breasts specifically, we're opposed to absurdist, stereotyped character design which has nothing to do with the game at hand.
Interesting that Bayonetta has come up in this discussion. Despite being generally opposed to breasts that are larger than a character's head, I enjoyed Bayonetta's hyper-sexualisation. Why? Because it was actually made sense in the game. The sexualisation made sense for her as a character, and was intrinsic to how she saw the world and interacted with it. So I'm OK with sexualised characters when it makes sense, but I object to it when it has been thrown in for no reason.
(Which, to answer an earlier question, is why Mirror's Edge would have been a worse game if Faith had been recast as Bouncy McKnockers. It would have actually made the game worse IMO.)
Lots of those opposed to freakish breasts on female characters are also opposed to freakish muscles on male characters.
We're not opposed to breasts specifically, we're opposed to absurdist, stereotyped character design which has nothing to do with the game at hand.
Interesting that Bayonetta has come up in this discussion. Despite being generally opposed to breasts that are larger than a character's head, I enjoyed Bayonetta's hyper-sexualisation. Why? Because it was actually made sense in the game. The sexualisation made sense for her as a character, and was intrinsic to how she saw the world and interacted with it. So I'm OK with sexualised characters when it makes sense, but I object to it when it has been thrown in for no reason.
(Which, to answer an earlier question, is why Mirror's Edge would have been a worse game if Faith had been recast as Bouncy McKnockers. It would have actually made the game worse IMO.)
You people are why we can't have nice things. Seriously, if I have to explain why an unhealthy portrayal of women is a bad thing, then there's no chance for humanity.jawakiller said:
It's simple. If the game has big boobs, and a girl sees you playing it, or knows you play it, she'll think you're a perv. Gamers have a hard enough time getting girls, so having them think you're perverted makes it extra hard.
Gamers want to be able to enjoy their hobby without having it further damage their chances at a relationship.
Gamers want to be able to enjoy their hobby without having it further damage their chances at a relationship.
Hang on... Yes women are portrayed negatively but its a fantasy world. Yes this degrading but I said that I don't care cuz I realize the difference between my gf and Square Enix's version of a female. (square enix sucks but i needed an example)Fex Worldwide said:
Simply put, sex sells. Look at Dead or Alive in Japan. There is a point for me where a character's chest reaches the point of being obscenely large (especially in Japanese games). Those that have larger breasts also tend to be characters that we as players are not supposed to have vested interests in nor feel compelled to like.
Kasumi from Dead or Alive is fun to look at but she has NO character. Hell, half the time we don't even know she has a face. But in games like Mass Effect 2, where a massive chest size is not as important as personality, characters like Miranda are designed with a deeper personality and a body within the limits of reality. It helps us as players to identify and become immersed in the game. The focus of Dead or Alive isn't exactly dynamic storytelling.
Of course, this doesn't me from getting ridiculous mods for Oblivion that completely replace the models and textures of my characters. In that case, I'm simply projecting my desires for my character's appearance into the game.
Kasumi from Dead or Alive is fun to look at but she has NO character. Hell, half the time we don't even know she has a face. But in games like Mass Effect 2, where a massive chest size is not as important as personality, characters like Miranda are designed with a deeper personality and a body within the limits of reality. It helps us as players to identify and become immersed in the game. The focus of Dead or Alive isn't exactly dynamic storytelling.
Of course, this doesn't me from getting ridiculous mods for Oblivion that completely replace the models and textures of my characters. In that case, I'm simply projecting my desires for my character's appearance into the game.
I just imagined a new form of perpetual motion energy based on the amount of intense, fascinated scrutiny it receives. The engines will be made of realistic synthesized flesh.Outright Villainy said:
Having generally been out with girls with a fairly obscene band size/cup size ratio I think there are 2 fundamental problems:
1) Big breasted girls IRL generally recognize that their bust size fundamentally limits what they can wear, and usually deliberately dress so they won't look obscene. Big breasted girls in games are dressed by (generally male) concept artists and designers who have no understanding of good taste. In games like DA2 for example, the problem isn't that all the women all have massive knockers (relative to their size) but that few of them look like they dressed themselves.
My current girlfriend (using the term loosely) generally wears a breast reduction bra, because it means she can wear so much more and look so much better in it.
2) Video game breasts generally adhere to an impossible shape. Sure, there are people IRL who have large breasts, but noone has breasts which always look like a pair of perfectly round balloons taped to their chest without extensive (and dangerous/debilitating for most people) surgery. Hence, the point about 'above averageness' or elitism is moot. It's an impossible standard, it's like adding extra muscles which human beings don't really have to the physique of your male characters to make them more muscular. You can work out for the rest of your life and not look like that.. likewise, you can have the biggest natural breasts in the world and they won't look like that.
1) Big breasted girls IRL generally recognize that their bust size fundamentally limits what they can wear, and usually deliberately dress so they won't look obscene. Big breasted girls in games are dressed by (generally male) concept artists and designers who have no understanding of good taste. In games like DA2 for example, the problem isn't that all the women all have massive knockers (relative to their size) but that few of them look like they dressed themselves.
My current girlfriend (using the term loosely) generally wears a breast reduction bra, because it means she can wear so much more and look so much better in it.
2) Video game breasts generally adhere to an impossible shape. Sure, there are people IRL who have large breasts, but noone has breasts which always look like a pair of perfectly round balloons taped to their chest without extensive (and dangerous/debilitating for most people) surgery. Hence, the point about 'above averageness' or elitism is moot. It's an impossible standard, it's like adding extra muscles which human beings don't really have to the physique of your male characters to make them more muscular. You can work out for the rest of your life and not look like that.. likewise, you can have the biggest natural breasts in the world and they won't look like that.
Just seeing those first two words of the title, anyone could guess that this topic would have pages and pages of responses. I can't offer any insight to the opinion of the public at large, but I can tell you why I hate them.
I'm just a bitter person. The fact that I don't feel sexual attraction toward either sex, combined with the overexposure of sexual influence in media, including games, pisses me off. Yes, it's the worst justification I could give outside of "because I say so", but I honestly have no reason beyond simply being an ass. So yes, I have a problem with big-breasted women in games, and a problem with shirtless men, and close-up glamor shots, and anything intended to mark a character as attractive. But I also despise humanity as a whole for celebrating a beauty I don't see, instead of the alternative, which is... Um... I'll get back to you.
(Halfway through this I realized people might take this as an ironic statement. I feel a need to clarify that this post has been 100% serious, and yes, I have such low self esteem that I went to this topic just to insult myself.)
I'm just a bitter person. The fact that I don't feel sexual attraction toward either sex, combined with the overexposure of sexual influence in media, including games, pisses me off. Yes, it's the worst justification I could give outside of "because I say so", but I honestly have no reason beyond simply being an ass. So yes, I have a problem with big-breasted women in games, and a problem with shirtless men, and close-up glamor shots, and anything intended to mark a character as attractive. But I also despise humanity as a whole for celebrating a beauty I don't see, instead of the alternative, which is... Um... I'll get back to you.
(Halfway through this I realized people might take this as an ironic statement. I feel a need to clarify that this post has been 100% serious, and yes, I have such low self esteem that I went to this topic just to insult myself.)
Same reason anyone criticizes anything, because they don't like it.Sir John the Net Knight said:
Why do you give a game a 3 rating when you didn't enjoy it? Why don't you just ignore the things you didn't like about it?
Why do you not buy clothes that you think look bad? Why don't you just ignore the parts that are ugly?
Why is this even a topic. You're essentially saying, Why do people complain about something they don't like. And the answer will always be because they want something changed. If everyone just ignored everything they don't like instead of complaining about it we'd have a boring ass world.