The thing everyone seems to forget is that when you put a sex scene in a game, some poor bastard has to spend the next week or so animating it. I can think of few things that would make me feel more awkward.
BioShock Creator Compares Videogame Sex to Naked Puppets
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There is indeed something inherently awkward about video game sex. What I don't understand is why developers refuse to use that awkwardness. Why not write a sex scene that involves nervousness, or discomfort, or even outright disappointment?
Without spoiling anything for those who haven't played, I can think of more than one pairing in Mass Effect 2 where this would have been appropriate. But nope. Shepard is only capable of perfect superhero sex.
And it's inherently boring and immature to have the protagonist be some unstoppable sex machine, rather than a real human being with quirks and kinks and insecurities. Perfection in such a compellingly imperfect realm of human interaction--that's a serious turn-off.
Also, game developers should turn away from the visual language of Hollywood cinema when approaching sex, because Hollywood cinema is, by and large, the very source of the aesthetic "prudishness" that Levine is talking about. The Team America scene is funny specifically because you would never, ever, ever see human actors doing half of that stuff in a serious, big-budget Hollywood action movie.
Without spoiling anything for those who haven't played, I can think of more than one pairing in Mass Effect 2 where this would have been appropriate. But nope. Shepard is only capable of perfect superhero sex.
And it's inherently boring and immature to have the protagonist be some unstoppable sex machine, rather than a real human being with quirks and kinks and insecurities. Perfection in such a compellingly imperfect realm of human interaction--that's a serious turn-off.
Also, game developers should turn away from the visual language of Hollywood cinema when approaching sex, because Hollywood cinema is, by and large, the very source of the aesthetic "prudishness" that Levine is talking about. The Team America scene is funny specifically because you would never, ever, ever see human actors doing half of that stuff in a serious, big-budget Hollywood action movie.
Now i have to watch Team America (fuck yeeeeeahhh!!) again 
On topic: I completely agree. Videogames as a medium has matured in its audience and should display the same evolution regarding content. There should be games for all kinds of demographic groups. Just like in the film industry.
On topic: I completely agree. Videogames as a medium has matured in its audience and should display the same evolution regarding content. There should be games for all kinds of demographic groups. Just like in the film industry.
Agree with pretty much everything here. Tali's scene was spot on perfect. So adorable, and real.GrizzlerBorno said:
Yeah, I agree. I just laughed when that scene came about. And any sense of maturity that it was trying to grasp immediately dissolved when I got the trophy alert.Onyx Oblivion said:
Edit: That being said, sex scenes in games feel like a parody at this point.
Even without the trophy alert, it still all dissolved very quickly, no?Jbird said:
lol Bioware sex
Getting upset about video game sex is like getting upset about puppet sex.
Thanks, Ken Levine, for essentially summing up how everyone should feel about the situation. I still don't think that the "RAWR! BAN GAMES BECUZ OF TEH SEX!" crowd will care too much, even after you equate it to puppet sex. Those people don't get mad because of sex in games...they get mad because they hate games, period.
As far as sex in games growing to be a more, uh, realistic depiction of the act, I don't think it's coming anytime soon. Not in the US, anyways.
Thanks, Ken Levine, for essentially summing up how everyone should feel about the situation. I still don't think that the "RAWR! BAN GAMES BECUZ OF TEH SEX!" crowd will care too much, even after you equate it to puppet sex. Those people don't get mad because of sex in games...they get mad because they hate games, period.
As far as sex in games growing to be a more, uh, realistic depiction of the act, I don't think it's coming anytime soon. Not in the US, anyways.
The romances for FemShep are similar. Garrus' and Thane's love scenes are very well constructed and nuanced, while Jacob's just falls flat (then again, he's just a boring character).GrizzlerBorno said:
I disagree; I don't think BioWare is "scared," I think they realize that trying to do a sex scene in-engine (which they must do, because of the character creation mechanic) would look ridiculous--which is exactly what Levine is pointing out here. The tech is really the limiting factor at this point, if you ignore the "moral guardians."Selvec said:
The rule of thumb being that, while alien hotness is available, don't go "Human"? Makes sense.Undead Dragon King said:
These "mature themes" are never going to happen in AAA titles; just get over it.
The economics of making the big blockbusters is such that they can't afford to piss anyone off, and that means it's going to be kiddie fare indefinitely. If you want mature themes, you're going to have to go for indie titles - just like you do with movies today. The middle 90s was about the last time you ever saw a blockbuster released with an R rating. Nowadays, if a movie costs more than $100 million to make, you'd better believe it will be PG-13 or PG (the most expensive R-Rated movie, as far as I can tell, in the last 20 years was "Saving Private Ryan" at $70 million). Why should games be any different?
The economics of making the big blockbusters is such that they can't afford to piss anyone off, and that means it's going to be kiddie fare indefinitely. If you want mature themes, you're going to have to go for indie titles - just like you do with movies today. The middle 90s was about the last time you ever saw a blockbuster released with an R rating. Nowadays, if a movie costs more than $100 million to make, you'd better believe it will be PG-13 or PG (the most expensive R-Rated movie, as far as I can tell, in the last 20 years was "Saving Private Ryan" at $70 million). Why should games be any different?
Sounds about right. I've always thought these things were ridiculous.
I don't have a problem with them being in there, they just tend to make me giggle is all, and not in that girlish way I giggle when I find something titillating. More in the, "That dude is wearing full armor. Dear lord that must hurt!" way.
I don't have a problem with them being in there, they just tend to make me giggle is all, and not in that girlish way I giggle when I find something titillating. More in the, "That dude is wearing full armor. Dear lord that must hurt!" way.
America, and to a lesser degree Western society in general, has always had a very hypocritical attitude towards sex and violence in media.Realitycrash said:
There's a weird dichotomy going on for sure, where it's ok in movies and television to have scads of people killed by various means, yet the first hint of a nipple has people crying out "Think of the children!". I'm sure a big part of that dichotomy is formed by the USA's violent past, from civil wars to the systematic subjugation of indigenous peoples, to gang violence, the war on drugs and America's overseas military campaigns. It feels like violence is out there as a part of life, so it's okay. Yet, due to the puritanical roots of many of the early settlers, sex and sexuality was repressed and hidden and a thing that was supposed to be used only for procreation. I'm not excusing other countries like Canada, where I live, but I definitely think that the US really takes the whole issue to the extremes.
I think it's similar to the reasons that so much strange sexuality and fetishistic behaviour comes out of Japan. Japanese sexuality has been repressed in certain ways for so long, it finally started coming out in strange and wonderful ways involving tentacles, dickgirls and all the other bizarre creations dreamed up.
Personally, if I ever had children I'd be far more comfortable exposing them to casual sexuality (i.e., not porn, but romantic and sexual expression including nudity) than I would having the sit in front of a tv and absorb violence for years and years.
My thoughts exactly. I love swearing too, and employ it frequently, but there's a time at a place. I can just imagine how much Levine's wife (if he's married) would have appreciated it if, in front of all their friends and relatives, when asked the penultimate question he said something along the lines of "I sure as fuck do!". Obviously a ridiculous example, but hopefully he has enough sense to know when and where it's appropriate to drop an F-bomb or two and not sound like an immature fool.canadamus_prime said:
He lost it when he made Bioshock in my opinion. How could you replicate System Shock 2 so badly, the game was ridiculously mediocre in comparison. I advise any Bioshock fan to play SS2, you won't regret it.Rex Fallout said:
He should abandon steampunk and go back to his sci-fi roots. System Shock 3 please Mr. Levine.
OT: The most hilarious sex scene has to go to fahrenheit's secret one where you get to push the analogue stick up occasionally to thrust in the most mechanical way possible.
It would be good to see some tasteful sex scenes in games but Levine's right there is along way to go till then.
Every time I see sex scenes from either Dragon Age game, I just laugh awkwardly. They're all done SO badly. How could they be so bad? Well, the silly music is part of it... That and the characters tend to either put more clothes on (MORRIGAN) or stay in their clothes. Or you could just look at God of War III where instead of watching yourself have sex, you watch your sexual prowess be SO overwhelming you get some servants to have lesbian sex with each other.
Video games will feature puppet sex forever if this is what they think sex is like.
Video games will feature puppet sex forever if this is what they think sex is like.
There's one in the DLC that's not bad either. It's definitely not "good" in the eyes of kids who just want to see some skin, but seeing Shepard and one of the characters from the first game get back together was one of the moments that makes ME2 special.Undead Dragon King said:
