Phoenixmgs said:
So I just beat Bioshock Infinite the other day, and I read through a few story/ending discussion threads to see other people's reactions, different takes on the story, etc. I was shocked to see some people saying Bioshock Infinite's story was just bad writing/storytelling/filled with holes to then see that same person point to the original Bioshock as a good story. What?!?! The plot of Bioshock was horrible.
First of all let me start by saying than neither Bioshock game had any holes in it(Except for the one I mention later in this comment). Neither one of the ONLY TWO BIOSHOCK GAMES THAT EXIST! There was Bioshock and Bioshock Infinite and nothing in between them.
In Bioshock the holes were filled by the Audio Logs and the fact that the player character was a clone of Ryan.
In Bioshock Infinite the holes were filled by the Audio Logs and the fact that there exist infinite doors into infinite universes that anyone can step through and that anything could be pulled through provided you had enough magical power or scientific gizmos...
Which one requires more suspension of disbelief? I'll leave that up to you (Hint: It's probably the Audio Logs, having personalized voice recorders in 1912 just seems ridiculous)
When the twist happened in Bioshock, my initial reactions were "Wow! Awesome! Really great twist!" Literally 10 seconds later, I put everything together, and then realized it didn't make any damn sense. Bioshock's plot is basically an elaborate assassination plot that happens to be, perhaps, the worst assassination plot ever (since it had an extremely low % of actually working). You couldn't kill Ryan with physical violence because of the Vita-chambers, and Ryan knew about the mind control (All Ryan had to say was "Would you kindly not kill me?"). The very reason Atlas/Fontaine wants you to kill Ryan is because he knows the Vita-chambers will work for you (the same blood as Ryan) so you can't really die from the splicers and whatnot on the way to Ryan; therefore, he had to know you can't kill Ryan by normal means. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt about not knowing that Ryan knew about the mind control. A much better means of killing Ryan would have been poisoning him or something. Ryan only died because he wanted to and he disabled his own Vita-chamber.
Low chance sure, but the best chance Atlas had.
Him, or any of his goons (Assuming he had any goons left) couldn't use the bathyspheres because he didn't have Ryan's DNA. Jack did, because...clone. The reason Andrew Ryan's vita chamber was off, was because Jack was Andrew Ryan and Andrew Ryan is A MAN not a slave, and A MAN CHOOSES! A slave obeys! When Ryan is yelling at you in that scene "A man chooses!" he's really saying "I am not weak enough to be brainwashed and I'm willing to bet my life on it"
Atlas couldn't have poisoned Ryan (Or anything else like that) because he couldn't get to him.
Now onto Bioshock Infinite. If you liked it, fine; if you didn't, fine as well. But to not like it because the plot has holes (especially while praising the original Bioshock) is idiotic. Whether the multiverse actually exists isn't a known fact, it's a theory (that really can't be dis-proven). We don't even know if they exist nor how things would resolve themselves if we were able to go back and forth between them.
Not liking something because of plot holes is a 100% acceptable reason. People who value their suspension of disbelief are entitled to deem something of poor quality if it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Do I have to bring up Mass Effect?
Anyway, like I said Bioshock and Infinite are breft of plot holes because of things surrounding their central premises (As bizarre as those things are)
1) I don't get how anyone can prove that Bioshock Infinite doesn't make sense.
2) Since you can't prove unequivocally that the story has a hole, why would then want the plot to have holes? Just to have an objective (instead of subjective) reason to not like the plot?
We're in spoiler town now.
Answer to point 1: My first playthrough of Bioshock Infinite I missed Literally, the very last Audio Log. And because of that I thought there was a MASSIVE hole in the story. (The very last audio log is the one where Lutece is saying that because of exposure to the Lutece tare Comstock was aging far faster than normal)
Without that Audio log questions would be raised like: "Why didn't Slate recognize Comstock as Dewitt?" "Did Comstock come back from the future? If so why try and kill Dewitt?" "Is Comstock or Dewitt in the wrong Universe?" "Wouldn't Comstock know that Dewitt was going to kill him since Comstock has already been Dewitt killing Comstock?" and so on.
So it is very easy to think that Bioshock Infinite is full of holes, all it takes is missing one important audio log.
As it stands the only plot hole in Bioshock Infinite is..."Where did all the racism come from? What part of baptism makes you go starkraving mad?" But I chock that up to the writer's personal commentary on religion.
And in response to point 2: If something doesn't make since for any reason, like missing an audio log. you were still left with unexplained plot points. And while that may not be a plot hole, well, if it looks like a plot hole and smells like a plot hole, if you stick your finger in it it'll still get stuck.... or how ever the saying goes.
That's not a fault of the story tellers, it's a fault of the level designers, all of the plot relevant audio logs should have been almost impossible to miss on your first play through.
Also... "The plot is confusing" is an objective reason not to like something.
It seems like people are just wanting to not like the ending, and then coming up with their own made up plot holes to "prove" the story has holes just to contrive a reason that the story is factually bad. Why try to prove the story doesn't work when you can just as easily prove it does work all while getting even more enjoyment out of your $60? The people showing ways in which the story does work itself out are using logic and using math to demonstrate what infinities are.
For some people (My self included) poking holes in stuff is EXTREMELY FUN!
If, after I complete something, I can sit there and mull over it for hours on end and find every single nit that needs picking I have spent my time and money well. That's why Mass Effect 3 wasn't a waste of money, I mean I wanted to kill my self after it was done, but still not a waste.
There's some issues with the story. For example, once Booker and Elizabeth went through the first tear on their quest to get guns from the gunsmith to give to Fitzroy for an airship, they should've known to either not go through or go through and just give up on the whole quest. Before you go through, Elizabeth says they can't get back so that means once you go through, that deal with Fitzroy is void and there's no point in getting the guns or the machinery. The characters (especially Elizabeth) should've figured that out much sooner. But that really doesn't ruin the main plot, it's not a plothole so-to-speak.
Yeah, that wasn't explained. Why did they think there deal would still be valid in a different universe.
To be fair their deal wasn't valid. After the Tare hops Fitzroy didn't honor the deal (That never happened) She just tried to have them killed.
Another plot hole I can think of is "How do Tare's send things back in time?" All the Tares pop them between different universes at the exact same point in time until Booker just jumps 30 some odd years into the future and then back. The time travel was never explained, Especially with Old Comstock being explained by premature aging. Why did one Tare just send him into the future?
So yeah, Racism and Time travle are the only two plot holes in Bioshock Infinite.
You didn't prove Infinite was better, you just said people should stop complaining.
