Bioware, are you taking the piss?

[boag]

without any of the compelling endgame that Massively MULTIPLAYER Online games are supposed to be about.

Ugh what?

compelling Endgame, on an MMO?

I dont think thats ever been possible.

 

[boag]

So.. you hate them so much that you're going to buy their next game?

Yup, that'll show 'em.

This. Everyone loves to rage about stuff like this but in the end, they don't show their opinion in the one way that matters, by not buying their games.

One purchase is not "the one way that matters". I'm sick of people thinking they're calling others out on hypocrisy for such trivially "logical" reasons. You're ignoring the whole concept of living in a society based heavily on communication. The OP showed his opinion in a way that matters, by voicing it.

EA being down $50 is nothing, and lacking an insignificant passive personal boycott of ME3 does nothing to invalidate the OP's point.

But it is hipopcrisy, and worse yet its a self absorbed entitlement issue.

I want X product to cater to me, and will buy it because I am sure they will cater to me, because I spent a great deal of time bitching about it on an internet forum, and if they make it to cater to me, I will ***** even harder.

 

[artanis_neravar]

(Spoilers)
Not only do I wait fucking 10 years for a conclusion to KOTOR's plotline only to be offered a bloody MMO, but you make me kill my main character from the 1st game AND HK-47!? Is Bioware trying to troll its fanbase that have been waiting a decade by killing 2 fan favourites and making us pay monthly for a WOW clone?! This is not fan-service Bioware, after DA2 I hoped you would get your act together. I swear ME3 is the last game i'll buy from you.

You don't kill Revan, Spoilers should be put in a spoiler tag

Spoiler

like this

, and it is not a WOW clone at all. Trying to claim that it is is like complaining that Halo is a Call of Duty clone.

 

[boag]

Logical triviality :S /shudder

You ever heard the sentence practise as you preach?

Where a persons actions isn't to the standard he wants to hold he wants to hold to hold people to?

Yes of course I've heard the phrase, but repeating an empty cliche means nothing. Actually think about it before you say "practice what you preach". Especially in this case, it's a superficial phrase with little real use. Don't just throw an expression at me and hope it'll do the work for you.

The OP was not a call to boycott, it was rage against Bioware's recent work. It's not unnatural for someone to still be interested in the ME franchise after enjoying the first two; that in no way invalidates his arguments against TOR and DA2. Instead of trying to robotically find the most objective criticism by using tired cliches, actually attempt to see the circumstances at work here.

And again, $50 is nothing to EA. Hell, if an angry post on the forums makes someone just skeptical enough to not buy the game straight away, then that angry post is more effective than a single passive protestor.

Of course it doesnt, but it does call his principles into question if he will still buy stuff from a company he loathes so much.

Its the beaten housewife syndrome.

 

[xplay3r]

So.. you hate them so much that you're going to buy their next game?

Yup, that'll show 'em.

This.... this has got to be one of my favorite comments ever....

 

[Hobonicus]

For the record, I thought the OP brought up a tired subject and didn't even execute it all that well, but the unjustified heckling he's received is ignorant, unfair, and hurts discussion as a whole. So instead of actually discussing the topic, people would rather play Gregory House and rip a guy to shreds for some invented character flaw they've projected onto him.

People can be so oblivious to their own misunderstandings while at the same time continuing to condescend.

But it is hipopcrisy, and worse yet its a self absorbed entitlement issue.

I want X product to cater to me, and will buy it because I am sure they will cater to me, because I spent a great deal of time bitching about it on an internet forum, and if they make it to cater to me, I will ***** even harder.

It's amazing how often people call criticism "bitching", and how often "entitlement" can get arbitrarily added onto anyone, but that's beside the point.

It would only be hypocrisy if he continued buying Bioware games after ME3. That's it. He's obviously still invested in Mass Effect, but dislikes Bioware's work on Dragon Age and The Old Republic, therefore he doesn't trust the company to produce anything of quality after ME3. It's not a question of principles. Which leads to this...

Of course it doesnt, but it does call his principles into question if he will still buy stuff from a company he loathes so much.

Its the beaten housewife syndrome.

You called his principles into question because you decided to. His issue wasn't a moral cause, his principles were never a part of this. People love attributing negative characteristics to others and this is a great example of it. You assume he has some personal vendetta against Bioware and wants them to fail, as if he claimed to be crusading against the company and isn't simply criticizing their games.

 

[lockthompson]

Don't blame Bioware, blame EA. They are notorious for buying out game companies and ruining them. EA ruined the entire Command and Conquer series when they bought out Westwood and I can see Bioware going down the same path.

 

[Hobonicus]

He doesn't have doubts... he seems pretty sure in his assumptions that Bioware is now bad. To such a degree he wants to shout it from the rooftops. And then he buy their games. And that is what I replied to. That is hypocrisy.

Even you admitted he was hypocritical, yet you just brushed it away.

I'm sick of people thinking they're calling others out on hypocrisy for such trivially "logical" reasons.

Btw there is no such thing as "trivial logic". There illogical and logical. "Trivial" logic is any logic.

You really need to get your stuff together. As oppose to what you may have been taught having an opinion is meaningless if you dont even respect it yourself. And if he cant practise as he preaches, then his opinion is no more than a whine.

Yeah he thinks Bioware has lost their touch, but he's not morally against them. He's invested in Mass Effect and wants to see it through the same way the rest of us paid to watch Star Wars Episodes 2 and 3. We weren't morally against the movies, we didn't want Lucas to crash and burn, but we all pretty much knew they'd suck. I wasn't too happy with the last two A Song of Ice and Fire books and I'm mad at the author for misleading fans but I'm invested in that particular series and will sure as hell buy the sequels even if I'm no longer interested in his other work.

So at what point did he not respect his own opinion? He thinks Mass Effect 3 will be worth a purchase and the following Bioware games won't be, that's his own opinion. Did he go to the future and purchase Bioware games after ME3?

The problem is you keep arbitrarily lumping these ideas together. Having criticism for Bioware does not automatically mean that he's a hypocrite for purchasing their products. I have criticism for almost every game I play. Again you say he doesn't "practice what he preaches", but what he preaches is displeasure for Bioware's apparent shift in direction. That's not a call to action, there's nothing about that opinion that obligates him to be morally opposed to purchasing their products.

And I said trivially "logical" with the word "logical" in quotes because that's a common indication for sarcasm. I guess you didn't realize that. The people calling him a hypocrite did so using the internet's ever popular pseudo-robotic (or what they see as "logical") method of ignoring context. Anyone who understands real logic would know that criticism does not automatically imply boycotting.

 

[Hobonicus]

yeah... this is objective criticism....

This is clearly a guy who is trying to make Bioware aware of the flaws of their products and still loves developer and therefore supports them. Clearly how can not see that?

Wha- guh- buh- that's exactly what I've been saying this whole time. He's criticizing Bioware, but criticism=/=boycott. <- Main point right there.

Now excuse me I am about to Post on the internet about a shitty plumber who fucked up my kitchen, but I am having him fix my bathroom this year. BUT IT WILL BE THE LAST JOB I HAVE HIM DO!

That isn't hypocritical. If you then had him do more jobs after the bathroom you'd be a hypocrite, but criticizing his work doesn't mean you're morally opposed to him. And this example would only be valid if he had already done a great job on your other bathrooms (as Bioware already did a great job on Mass Effect). You saw my own examples, right?

And btw your attempt at pinning it on sarcasm doesn't change a thing. If you meant "logical" was sarcastic then it changes into

I'm sick of people thinking they're calling others out on hypocrisy for such trivially illogical reasons.

Trivially illogical is as stupid as trivially logical. You might as well say Black logically, or heavy, or dark.

No, wow, come on. Sarcasm doesn't instantly reverse something to it's polar opposite, you can't honestly think that can you? Did you even read my explanation? You're misunderstanding.

Obviously this is going nowhere. You and many others are gonna continue unjustly demonizing this guy for something he hasn't done. If you're just gonna ignore half the things I wrote, then it's pointless to explain why such obtuse hatred is wrong.

 

[Caligulove]

Hard to fit Revan and HK47 into an MMO framework. For what it's worth, I think it could have been a lot worse. Lore always suffers when a series has been turned into an MMO. Look at WarCraft. Never got into WoW- so as far as I'm concerned the last thing that happened in Warcraft lore was Arthas taking the Lich King's place (or melding with; whatever)

I looked at the Warcraft wiki some months ago and its all gone crazy with Dragons and stuff blowing up all over the place. I wish there was a Warcraft III campaign that went through all of that. I'm genuinely interested in what happened, but don't like MMOs and wouldn't like to play the eventual WarCraft IV with a huge gap between my last excursion into Azeroth.

 

[Hobonicus]

If he had said

"This is not fan-service Bioware, after DA2 I hoped you would get your act together. I swear ME3 is the last chance i'll give you"

then it is logically consistent.

That's obviously what he meant, why else would he buy ME3 if he didn't think it had a chance of holding up better than DA2 and TOR? This is what I meant by "trivially 'logical'". When people purposefully ignore context and subjectivity and pretend they can only understand literal interpretations. They end up reading something insignificant and blow it out of proportion because they refuse to actually understand the real point. We all know what he's trying to say, but people will ignore his point in favor of attacking the way he phrased it. You don't see me getting on your ass about not actually knowing what doublespeak is because at least I understood what you meant.

And the only way for him to be a hypocrite for buying something is if he's boycotting it, which is why I keep using that word. Or if to someone else he says "Bioware is great", that'd be hypocrisy. I said before that the OP was poorly executed, but his real point wasn't hypocritical and doesn't deserve to be buried by legions of people who would rather demean him for poor wording than actually discuss the topic. His criticisms don't inherently obligate him to stop buying anything from Bioware starting now, that's something you just made up after hearing his plan to start boycotting after ME3.

And the insults really aren't necessary.

 

[Talon_Skywarp]

I love things like this. Happens all the time

'GRRRRRR I hate this company so much, screw you never buying anything from you again.'

3 months later

'Their new game is amazing!'

Lets be honest here, no one maintains their boycotts.

 

[boag]

For the record, I thought the OP brought up a tired subject and didn't even execute it all that well, but the unjustified heckling he's received is ignorant, unfair, and hurts discussion as a whole. So instead of actually discussing the topic, people would rather play Gregory House and rip a guy to shreds for some invented character flaw they've projected onto him.

People can be so oblivious to their own misunderstandings while at the same time continuing to condescend.

But it is hipopcrisy, and worse yet its a self absorbed entitlement issue.

I want X product to cater to me, and will buy it because I am sure they will cater to me, because I spent a great deal of time bitching about it on an internet forum, and if they make it to cater to me, I will ***** even harder.

It's amazing how often people call criticism "bitching", and how often "entitlement" can get arbitrarily added onto anyone, but that's beside the point.

You just said it yourself, its poorly worded and makes a mountain out of a molehill, its way past the point of criticism

It would only be hypocrisy if he continued buying Bioware games after ME3. That's it. He's obviously still invested in Mass Effect, but dislikes Bioware's work on Dragon Age and The Old Republic, therefore he doesn't trust the company to produce anything of quality after ME3. It's not a question of principles. Which leads to this...

a fair point

Of course it doesnt, but it does call his principles into question if he will still buy stuff from a company he loathes so much.

Its the beaten housewife syndrome.

You called his principles into question because you decided to. His issue wasn't a moral cause, his principles were never a part of this. People love attributing negative characteristics to others and this is a great example of it. You assume he has some personal vendetta against Bioware and wants them to fail, as if he claimed to be crusading against the company and isn't simply criticizing their games.

Lets see.

The OP he admits that he waited 10 years for a game.

He then goes on to deride them for killing characters, he generalizes as fan favorites.

Further more he makes a blanket statement about Bioware Trolling, adds in how they are FORCING HIM to pay monthly for a game, which he obviously has no options of overlooking.

Derides them for not applying themselves after DA2, which implies he had a first hand experience with it.

And tops it all off with saying "I am done after ME3"

I mean, he wont quit right now, he states he will quit after ME3.

Maybe youre right, maybe his principles arent in question, what would do you call a person that continuously derides X thing, but continuously seeks it out? and dont say Tsundere.

 

[Mahoshonen]

I won't buy ME3 either, but that' because they trivialized the Holocaust in DA2.