Bioware choices (here we go again)

[Raikas]

You could have killed Alistar and he only makes a cameo if you chose to kill him (?)

That's actually not true at all. Alistair appears late in the game as king if you made him king, he appears at the end of Act 2 as a grey warden if your warden became king (or if you made Anora queen without punishing him as part of the deal) and he appears as a drunk in the Hanged Man if you exiled or imprisoned him. I assume the fact that you got him despite killing him meant that the execute flag was the same as the exile one, rather than that it was a choice that didn't matter. I used three different imports and saw three different versions of him.

 

[GoGoFrenzy]

...But for the love of god people. Is your biggest complaint really going to be that a few choices you made were retconned? Are you really reaching THAT far to ***** and moan?

No. I can only speak for myself but the reason I'm complaining is cause I thought DA2 and ME3 ruined their respective trilogies with lazy writing and story inconsistencies. DA2's zoomed in camera also made for shite gameplay. They had a great thing going in DA1. And never leaving the city or not being able to choose another race besides human was a huge step down after DA1. Utter boredom...

 

[Mikeyfell]

I'm just saying that the situation here isn't equal to that of Mass Effect 3 or Dragon Age II, so preemptively calling them out on it isn't really fair. Yeah, they've stumbled in the past, but they've also hit it out of the park on more than one occasion.

Dragon Age 2 still makes me skeptical about the Dragon Age writing team.

DAO gave us the choice to kill Anders and Justice.
(In the playthrough I imported they had never met eachother) They still possessed eachother.
They gave us the chance to kill Nathan Howe, he is back regardless.

They gave us the opportunity to kill Lelianna, she's back
50% chance to kill Zeveran and he's back regardless
You could have killed Alistar and he only makes a cameo if you chose to kill him (?)
(I guess he makes a late game cameo if you made him king too)

None of those retcons had a decent explanation (or any form of explanation at all) I seriously doubt they'll pay more mind to using Morrigan again.

(I'll look the other way if they put Wynne back in the game)
I don't care if it's the biggest Retcon they ever pulled Wynne is my favorite Dragon Age Character, and as long as they're bringing people back from the dead she should be there.

Hmm... You know, I've played both Dragon Age Origins and DAII, but I may have to go back and play through them again. Honestly, the only Origins characters I remember making an appearance in DAII were Alistair and Leliana, both right around the climax as I recall. And I got the feeling that Alistair was only in Kirkwall because I didn't make him king in Origins, and after the Archdemon was killed, he didn't have anything else to do. I don't remember the context of Leliana's appearance: just that she appeared briefly. It was really just long enough for me to go "hey!" From the sounds of it, though, I'm forgetting some things.

Maybe I should come up with some kind of disclaimer.

*This opinion may be subject to change without notice.

That's a pretty good disclaimer to have.

I would like for DA:I to be good but I just don't see it happening.

I predicted a long time ago (Like before the Dragon Age 2 hub-bub was over) that the best possible course of action for the Dragon Age series would be to move farther and farther away from the events of Origins.
Just use DA:O as world building and let all the unrelated stories of later games happen without being bogged down with too much exposition. (Even though in Dragon Age 2 they reexplained everything they needed to so... so much for my idea)

Bioware is best at the boiler plate "Hero's journey" plot. Trying to break away from that is a noble goal but they've already proven (With Mass Effect 2, 3 and DA2) that they can't do that very well.
So I think they would be better off if they learned their lesson, cut their losses and went back to what they do best
Standard Hero's Journey with interesting characters that make up for the standard plots.

And they should also move away from "Action RPG's" or "Action games" as that's a more accurate description. and go back to a more old school stat based combat system.

 

[Mikeyfell]

You could have killed Alistar and he only makes a cameo if you chose to kill him (?)

That's actually not true at all. Alistair appears late in the game as king if you made him king, he appears at the end of Act 2 as a grey warden if your warden became king (or if you made Anora queen without punishing him as part of the deal) and he appears as a drunk in the Hanged Man if you exiled or imprisoned him. I assume the fact that you got him despite killing him meant that the execute flag was the same as the exile one, rather than that it was a choice that didn't matter. I used three different imports and saw three different versions of him.

I never saw him as a Warden. (Even if I imported a save where Anora was queen)
And I never actually made him King in Origins.
(But I believe you)

It's just not cool that they Retcon people back from the dead like that (Especially Lelianna)

 

[verdant monkai]

Bioware make some beautiful games but they are a pack of liars. Mass effect showed us that player choice ultimately means jack to them.

I'll just import whatever save I can find on my hard drive and just go for it, even though I prefer fantasy I was never as invested in DA as i was in mass effect. I'll just enjoy the game choices made in previous games be damned, if bioware doesn't give a shit I see no reason I should.

 

[SonOfMethuselah]

I'm just saying that the situation here isn't equal to that of Mass Effect 3 or Dragon Age II, so preemptively calling them out on it isn't really fair. Yeah, they've stumbled in the past, but they've also hit it out of the park on more than one occasion.

Dragon Age 2 still makes me skeptical about the Dragon Age writing team.

DAO gave us the choice to kill Anders and Justice.
(In the playthrough I imported they had never met eachother) They still possessed eachother.
They gave us the chance to kill Nathan Howe, he is back regardless.

They gave us the opportunity to kill Lelianna, she's back
50% chance to kill Zeveran and he's back regardless
You could have killed Alistar and he only makes a cameo if you chose to kill him (?)
(I guess he makes a late game cameo if you made him king too)

None of those retcons had a decent explanation (or any form of explanation at all) I seriously doubt they'll pay more mind to using Morrigan again.

(I'll look the other way if they put Wynne back in the game)
I don't care if it's the biggest Retcon they ever pulled Wynne is my favorite Dragon Age Character, and as long as they're bringing people back from the dead she should be there.

Hmm... You know, I've played both Dragon Age Origins and DAII, but I may have to go back and play through them again. Honestly, the only Origins characters I remember making an appearance in DAII were Alistair and Leliana, both right around the climax as I recall. And I got the feeling that Alistair was only in Kirkwall because I didn't make him king in Origins, and after the Archdemon was killed, he didn't have anything else to do. I don't remember the context of Leliana's appearance: just that she appeared briefly. It was really just long enough for me to go "hey!" From the sounds of it, though, I'm forgetting some things.

Maybe I should come up with some kind of disclaimer.

*This opinion may be subject to change without notice.

That's a pretty good disclaimer to have.

I would like for DA:I to be good but I just don't see it happening.

I predicted a long time ago (Like before the Dragon Age 2 hub-bub was over) that the best possible course of action for the Dragon Age series would be to move farther and farther away from the events of Origins.
Just use DA:O as world building and let all the unrelated stories of later games happen without being bogged down with too much exposition. (Even though in Dragon Age 2 they reexplained everything they needed to so... so much for my idea)

Bioware is best at the boiler plate "Hero's journey" plot. Trying to break away from that is a noble goal but they've already proven (With Mass Effect 2, 3 and DA2) that they can't do that very well.
So I think they would be better off if they learned their lesson, cut their losses and went back to what they do best
Standard Hero's Journey with interesting characters that make up for the standard plots.

And they should also move away from "Action RPG's" or "Action games" as that's a more accurate description. and go back to a more old school stat based combat system.

Now that I can tip my hat to. I don't mind a good action-game (or a hack-and-slash, as that's the prevailing feel I remember having with DAII), but Bioware games always leave me feeling warmest when they're using a more "old-school" system.

As for the story front, I think Bioware's biggest problem over the last few years has been a move away from the more intimate, character-based stories into things that might be dubbed "epic." I mean, a threat against almost all significant sentient life in an intergalactic civilization (or "civilizations," if you want to discern the different races)? That's a pretty huge leap from something like, say, Jade Empire. Bioware have always been best at character interaction. I mean, the most memorable moments of the Dragon Age game are the ambient inter-character dialogues, and some of the campfire moments. Same goes for Mass Effect: it was always conversations with and missions pertaining to individual squad-mates that left me feeling satisfied.

I think if Bioware can get back to the character moments in Inquisition, then at the very least there will be a few bright spots within the game, even if it does, unfortunately, turn out to be underwhelming overall.

 

[Raikas]

As for the story front, I think Bioware's biggest problem over the last few years has been a move away from the more intimate, character-based stories into things that might be dubbed "epic." I mean, a threat against almost all significant sentient life in an intergalactic civilization (or "civilizations," if you want to discern the different races)? That's a pretty huge leap from something like, say, Jade Empire. Bioware have always been best at character interaction.

I actually think that DA2 was very much character-driven and non-epic - Hawke doesn't save the world, he's just buffeted along by history while his city falls apart. If anything, I imagine that the poor reception of that game means we can expect DA:I to be a return to an Origins-style hero's quest.

 

[Dragonbums]

If Bioware couldn't handle all these choices things in their games, then perhaps they shouldn't of waved it around like a banner and make the biggest selling points of their games all about your "choices"
When naturally, all the things you did in a game that claims you choices matter end up being bullshit, don't be surprised when people get pissed at you.

 

[Arina Love]

hahah, well just as expected from creators of ShitEffect3, i gave up on bioware after ME2 and ME3. It would be awesome if they announce no loot no inventory "streamlining" , then i would laugh even harder!

 

[Ishal]

Bioware really lost their touch when it came to the whole choice thing, so it really doesnt matter.

I am sure a number of people are interested in the next Dragon Age, but that is most likely an academic interest. I for one am interested in seeing just how badly fucked up it is, no so interested in playing it or giving EA money for it...

For better or for worse, there are a great many people that will hate this game regardless of the way it turns out. And heaven help Bioware (and especially Gaider) if it flops. The fires on the BSN still burn... and this game will only add fuel to them.

At the core though, its Bioware who determines how bad this goes, and I don't mean by them making a good game or not. Nearly all the rage heaped upon them in ME3 was due to their treatment of the fans and the way they responded. Not unlike the rage we just saw toward Microsoft. For YEARS they have said, "we respect our audience and userbase so much, we consider them co-authors of the game." Then as soon as things go south, everyone is suddenly whiny entitled brats. Haha NO. Bioware is responsible for everything that has been thrown at them.

Bioware games have always been formulaic in nature and carried the same number of pros and cons throughout their existence, but the momentum they gained since Balders Gate eclipsed many of those flaws. Now that the momentum is gone, I don't see good things in Bioware's future. DA:I is the time and place where they need to circle the wagons and convene the council. It's when they need to get back to basics and really play up what people love about Bioware games. Focus on their strengths. What have we heard? "We've been looking at open world stuff," Skyrim namedrop, and more bullshit about choices. Not looking good...

 

[norashepard]

And even if the choice doesn't change much about the plot, remember that Male Wardens who did the boning, wait, I mean, ritual, will get to see their crazy demon child and go "That's my kid. I made that." And that's pretty cool.

That's basically how I feel about all of this. Many people want their choices to change big sweeping things, and there are a few choices like that, but not enough to be significant. But Bioware does do a ton of choices when it comes to the characters. Each of the characters in DA:O had several paths, both of friendship and enemies. And Hawke, for example, could be a prick, a goody two shoes, a sarcastic git, or all three, plus (depending on choice!) completely alone in the world by the end of the game, or still living happily with a brother or sister, and a merry band of friends/assholes. Hell, you didn't even have to have three of the companions. They were optional choices. There's a LOT of choice that goes into who Hawke is, even without race options like in DA:O. It's not as fancy as some big sweeping thing, but honestly, for me it's more impressive.

 

[i64ever]

I agree that your choices should have some impact on the game, but how much is reasonable to expect? Morrigan's demon baby is probably central to the plot. If you chose not conceive it or have Alister to the deed, what should happen? Having the baby not exist at all would probably mean a completely different story. While that would be nice, its probably not realistic to expect.

I would hope that if you did the "right" thing, the game would acknowledge that in the dialog (Not call you the baby daddy, not have NPC's make you feel guilty for helping span an abomination), and perhaps a different side quest (Looking for the daddy?)

I hate to say it, but as much as I love computer rpg's, if you want a game where huge portions of the plot change based on your changes instead of just a few details, you probably want to play a tabletop game with a GM.

 

[schtingah]

The Choices in Mass Effect carrying over made a lot of sense because it was one story from the perspective of one person. The choices my Shepard made influenced her and the universe around her and it wouldn't feel right for either of those things to change.

But in Dragon Age while the stories have some touching points they're three different stories about three different people, so I'm not that bothered about my choices following through.

I liked the way in Dragon Age 2 you had a couple of choices of what happened in the first game if you didn't have a save, and I'm hoping it'll just be like that again. Because I don't have my saves any more and unlike what I did for ME3 I don't really want to play through the games again.

 

[SonOfMethuselah]

As for the story front, I think Bioware's biggest problem over the last few years has been a move away from the more intimate, character-based stories into things that might be dubbed "epic." I mean, a threat against almost all significant sentient life in an intergalactic civilization (or "civilizations," if you want to discern the different races)? That's a pretty huge leap from something like, say, Jade Empire. Bioware have always been best at character interaction.

I actually think that DA2 was very much character-driven and non-epic - Hawke doesn't save the world, he's just buffeted along by history while his city falls apart. If anything, I imagine that the poor reception of that game means we can expect DA:I to be a return to an Origins-style hero's quest.

*facepalm*
This is why you don't have multiple tabs open with different forums in each one. You forget things, man.
What I meant to add was that, really, the only reason Dragon Age II is really worth playing is for the character moments. DAII very much felt like some kind of narrative experiment, one that was interesting, but ultimately a failure because it doesn't feel like your actions have any weight. I'm totally in agreement with you.

 

[Mikeyfell]

I think if Bioware can get back to the character moments in Inquisition, then at the very least there will be a few bright spots within the game, even if it does, unfortunately, turn out to be underwhelming overall.

Definitely, my favorite part of DA2 was picking random party members and just walking around Kirkwall waiting to trigger some random banter.

I hope they have more of a "Camp" set up like DAO so it's easier to talk to all your party members at once.

 

[LostCrusader]

And at the end of DA3, Old God Baby grows up and takes to the stars, wondering if organic and synthetic life can coexist...

 

[SonOfMethuselah]

I think if Bioware can get back to the character moments in Inquisition, then at the very least there will be a few bright spots within the game, even if it does, unfortunately, turn out to be underwhelming overall.

Definitely, my favorite part of DA2 was picking random party members and just walking around Kirkwall waiting to trigger some random banter.

I hope they have more of a "Camp" set up like DAO so it's easier to talk to all your party members at once.

It always stumped me that they didn't do that in DA II. I mean, you've got that big ol' manor house, but the place was completely empty. Seemed to me like it would have made a fine resting place for my companions. Just screams "missed opportunity" to me.

EDIT: I probably should point out that I know it wasn't "completely" empty, but most of your party members had their own hangouts, which maybe made sense in the context of the game, but made talking to them all a lot more of a chore than it should have been.