Bioware: FF13 is not an RPG

[Terramax]

Changing the face of your character and making decisions that ultimately make little to no difference to the gameplay or story - western ones aren't really role playing anymore either.

 

[I Max95]

my problem with bioware's statement is this: who the fuck died and made them genre-definers?

i've loved bioware since they made the infinity engine and helped black isle make baldur's, and i've also loved square since ff1. even more when they became square-enix, but wtf is it with bioware's writer?

i've grown to live with their "DA's the spiritual successor to BG" bullshit (i really don't agree if i wasn't clear), but this is just to much.

they brutally criticize (imo) square but what do they have to show for it? DA and ME were very disappointing. oblivion was more BG-like (at least gameplay-wise) than DA will ever be and MEs actually do feel like JRPGs (not that they're japanese but for the customization and role-playing aspect). so you decide a couple of things. the outcome is a different 3d model being loaded (i think) with it's own set of textures. whoa. it changed the fucking world.

the whole article feels like some guy who got lucky on EA's tit and cock and now, having climbed waaay up in the gaming industry, finally lives his fantasy of being a world-renown game writer and can professionally throw shit at competitors (real or perceived).

I agree with this.

I'm a bioware fan as much as the next guy, however where the hell did this self-appointed RPG nazi come from?

This just goes to show that Bioware is ultimately a small fish in the sea where they can't even keep a lid on bashing another company in a poor attempt to make their product look superior.

I guess they can't afford a PR person?

Again, I don't see how they're trying to make their product look superior by calling FF a non-RPG. There are plenty of good non-RPG games out there, and a lot of people shared their opinion on this subject long before they decided to make their voices heard. There's no role-playing in FF. It isn't an RPG.

who decided that rpg's are superior over non-rpg's
so much so that an ADVENTURE GAME has to call itself an rpg
i love adventure games and i used to love final fantasy
and i love rpg's all the same why are people getting angry at a correction of a mistake
a mistake that ultimatly doesnt matter what genre it is or isnt doesnt affect (or at least shouldnt affect) how fun you think the game is

IT DOESNT MATTER

 

[traineesword]

RPG stands for Role-playing game right? so if you feel like you are playing a role and you are getting into that role, then it is an RPG.

OK, once again I had to stop reading two or three sentences into a post. There has already been 11 pages of people making this complete failure in logic before you, so just stop.

you could have put it in a nicer way, okay, so maybe my point is heavily flawed, but there is pointing me out and then there is just rubbing the penis on your head infront of my face. so how would you define role-playing, if "playing a role" is such an unlogical concept?
you could at least corrected me, even if in a dickish manner, i may have even laughed.

My brother (used to, now he talks down the mike to other COD players, the only game he plays) talks to himself when playing a game, he mimics the charactes voices, pretending they say different (and sometimes funny) things in conversation. is that not a form of role-playing, in games ranging from "timesplitters" to "Ratchet and Clank"?

Hey, if I mimic voices of the characters on Lost, does that make it roleplaying TV? Or does that make me a person wishing Mystery Science Theater 3000 was still on the air? Admittedly the second one, but you get my point I hope.

i do get your point, your very nicely non-dickheadedly raised point. i am glad you are able to put it in a non-trolling way, much unlike a particular Isendall. (not trolling, thats the wrong word >.> but i can't think of which word i mean)

 

[CmdrGoob]

You know who else doesn't think FF13 is really a true RPG?

FF13 producers Kitase and Toriyama [http://www.gamegrep.com/previews/30446-final_fantasy_xiii_not_an_rpg_says_producer_new_1up_exclusive_screens/]

"We didn't really intend to work within with the RPG template," he (Kitase) says. "We wanted to create a new game, even a new genre."

"Because players are presented with multiple different situations on the field, in a lot of senses FFXIII is more like an FPS than an RPG," says director Motomu Toriyama.


So if you're flaming Bioware for saying the same thing, I guess the jokes on you.

 

[Loonerinoes]

Meh...tis representative of the fanbase that doesn't do any research to check up on the jaw-punching headlines and the relevance of what was stated in the original within the proper context.

Still, I have to say all these unwarranted tears are hilarious.

 

[Mr. In-between]

I have an idea, let's all jump on the Bioware bandwagon because we like to play the mature games that they make! It doesn't matter that the gaming community has considered Final Fantasy to be an RPG franchise for the past twenty years, Bioware doesn't like Square-Enix and I'll stick with what Bioware says because they make mature games for sophisticated, mature gamers much like myself.

 

[the D0rk One]

So being a game designer means you are no longer allowed to voice an opinion?

Wether you agree with it is a different matter. REading the inter view FF XIII is brought in by the interviewer who praises its story but is degrogitory about its game aspects. THe bioware rep then says;

" Well, before I address the main point I just want to take a slightly more controversial route: You can put a 'J' in front of it, but it's not an RPG. You don't make any choices, you don't create a character, you don't live your character... I don't know what those are - adventure games maybe? But they're not RPG's.

But you're absolutely right, without the systems, your nothing. One of the things we've always been aware of is that a lot of people play Baldur's Gate to death, and those people who play it 3,4 5 times aren't story guys, they're D&D guys."

At no point does he say they arent good, he just says they arent RPGs.

If he'd just issued a press statement or similar announcing that FF XIII wasnt an RPG then he'd deserve to be called an arrogant tosser. But he didnt.

a professional gd/lead writer's opinion is quite important imo.
but shouldn't this get them thinking "is this appropriate?"

I don't see how his interview is different from the hypothetical press statement you mention above...

all I'm saying is that I think this is unfair competition.

Answering a question in an interview is a very different kettle of fish to coming out and announcing with no outside influence something. He very deliberately avoided giving the answer that was looked for that was FF XIII is shit. The interviewer is clearly trying to coax that. Instead he distances the games by claiming they are different types of games, and at no point does he say one is better than the other because of it. He then answers the point about the gameplay being important after already having removed FF XIII from the equation.

If he hadn't attempted to remove the FF XIII part then he'd have directly said my games better than yours.

while you're right regarding that he didn't come out on a stage and started flinging shit at SE, but his message has the same meaning.

the interview gave him an opening to talk shit in a less ballsy manner than in your scenario.

 

[Petromir]

So being a game designer means you are no longer allowed to voice an opinion?

Wether you agree with it is a different matter. REading the inter view FF XIII is brought in by the interviewer who praises its story but is degrogitory about its game aspects. THe bioware rep then says;

" Well, before I address the main point I just want to take a slightly more controversial route: You can put a 'J' in front of it, but it's not an RPG. You don't make any choices, you don't create a character, you don't live your character... I don't know what those are - adventure games maybe? But they're not RPG's.

But you're absolutely right, without the systems, your nothing. One of the things we've always been aware of is that a lot of people play Baldur's Gate to death, and those people who play it 3,4 5 times aren't story guys, they're D&D guys."

At no point does he say they arent good, he just says they arent RPGs.

If he'd just issued a press statement or similar announcing that FF XIII wasnt an RPG then he'd deserve to be called an arrogant tosser. But he didnt.

a professional gd/lead writer's opinion is quite important imo.
but shouldn't this get them thinking "is this appropriate?"

I don't see how his interview is different from the hypothetical press statement you mention above...

all I'm saying is that I think this is unfair competition.

Answering a question in an interview is a very different kettle of fish to coming out and announcing with no outside influence something. He very deliberately avoided giving the answer that was looked for that was FF XIII is shit. The interviewer is clearly trying to coax that. Instead he distances the games by claiming they are different types of games, and at no point does he say one is better than the other because of it. He then answers the point about the gameplay being important after already having removed FF XIII from the equation.

If he hadn't attempted to remove the FF XIII part then he'd have directly said my games better than yours.

while you're right regarding that he didn't come out on a stage and started flinging shit at SE, but his message has the same meaning.

the interview gave him an opening to talk shit in a less ballsy manner than in your scenario.

You might have a semblance of an argument if the same opinion hadnt been expressed by the games own makers.......

 

[the D0rk One]

You know who else doesn't think FF13 is really a true RPG?

FF13 producers Kitase and Toriyama [http://www.gamegrep.com/previews/30446-final_fantasy_xiii_not_an_rpg_says_producer_new_1up_exclusive_screens/]

"We didn't really intend to work within with the RPG template," he (Kitase) says. "We wanted to create a new game, even a new genre."

"Because players are presented with multiple different situations on the field, in a lot of senses FFXIII is more like an FPS than an RPG," says director Motomu Toriyama.


So if you're flaming Bioware for saying the same thing, I guess the jokes on you.

well, yes, but:

1. Toriyama worked on FF13, it was his project, etc.
2. Toriyama's interview is from february.

and Toriyama or anybody from SE for that matter didn't point out that DA is as much a successor to BG as i am to the queen of england, or that ME2's gameplay seems to be aimed at people with down syndrome. or creche children.

 

[Mr. In-between]

So being a game designer means you are no longer allowed to voice an opinion?

Wether you agree with it is a different matter. REading the inter view FF XIII is brought in by the interviewer who praises its story but is degrogitory about its game aspects. THe bioware rep then says;

" Well, before I address the main point I just want to take a slightly more controversial route: You can put a 'J' in front of it, but it's not an RPG. You don't make any choices, you don't create a character, you don't live your character... I don't know what those are - adventure games maybe? But they're not RPG's.

But you're absolutely right, without the systems, your nothing. One of the things we've always been aware of is that a lot of people play Baldur's Gate to death, and those people who play it 3,4 5 times aren't story guys, they're D&D guys."

At no point does he say they arent good, he just says they arent RPGs.

If he'd just issued a press statement or similar announcing that FF XIII wasnt an RPG then he'd deserve to be called an arrogant tosser. But he didnt.

a professional gd/lead writer's opinion is quite important imo.
but shouldn't this get them thinking "is this appropriate?"

I don't see how his interview is different from the hypothetical press statement you mention above...

all I'm saying is that I think this is unfair competition.

Answering a question in an interview is a very different kettle of fish to coming out and announcing with no outside influence something. He very deliberately avoided giving the answer that was looked for that was FF XIII is shit. The interviewer is clearly trying to coax that. Instead he distances the games by claiming they are different types of games, and at no point does he say one is better than the other because of it. He then answers the point about the gameplay being important after already having removed FF XIII from the equation.

If he hadn't attempted to remove the FF XIII part then he'd have directly said my games better than yours.

while you're right regarding that he didn't come out on a stage and started flinging shit at SE, but his message has the same meaning.

the interview gave him an opening to talk shit in a less ballsy manner than in your scenario.

You might have a semblance of an argument if the same opinion hadnt been expressed by the games own makers.......

Irrelevant. It's easy to understand the tone of the statement made by Erickson.

Toyota could launch a new concept that is much like an SUV and say "Well, we don't really consider this an SUV because we tried to do something completely different". For GM to come out and say "TOYOTA MIGHT THINK THEY HAVE AN SUV, BUT THEY DON'T BECAUSE IT DOESN'T HAVE 4WD!" is completely different in tone and intention.

Erickson deliberately dissed SE because he is insecure about the fact that Bioware makes games that people will have forgotten about in two console generations.

 

[MinishArcticFox]

To chorus pretty much everyone else I agree. When I make a Shepard or a Dragon Age character I tend to get attatched to it since it tends to look and act like me. However I am in no way similar to the FF characters and if you don't feel that it's more of a story game than a role playing game.

 

[Petromir]

So being a game designer means you are no longer allowed to voice an opinion?

Wether you agree with it is a different matter. REading the inter view FF XIII is brought in by the interviewer who praises its story but is degrogitory about its game aspects. THe bioware rep then says;

" Well, before I address the main point I just want to take a slightly more controversial route: You can put a 'J' in front of it, but it's not an RPG. You don't make any choices, you don't create a character, you don't live your character... I don't know what those are - adventure games maybe? But they're not RPG's.

But you're absolutely right, without the systems, your nothing. One of the things we've always been aware of is that a lot of people play Baldur's Gate to death, and those people who play it 3,4 5 times aren't story guys, they're D&D guys."

At no point does he say they arent good, he just says they arent RPGs.

If he'd just issued a press statement or similar announcing that FF XIII wasnt an RPG then he'd deserve to be called an arrogant tosser. But he didnt.

a professional gd/lead writer's opinion is quite important imo.
but shouldn't this get them thinking "is this appropriate?"

I don't see how his interview is different from the hypothetical press statement you mention above...

all I'm saying is that I think this is unfair competition.

Answering a question in an interview is a very different kettle of fish to coming out and announcing with no outside influence something. He very deliberately avoided giving the answer that was looked for that was FF XIII is shit. The interviewer is clearly trying to coax that. Instead he distances the games by claiming they are different types of games, and at no point does he say one is better than the other because of it. He then answers the point about the gameplay being important after already having removed FF XIII from the equation.

If he hadn't attempted to remove the FF XIII part then he'd have directly said my games better than yours.

while you're right regarding that he didn't come out on a stage and started flinging shit at SE, but his message has the same meaning.

the interview gave him an opening to talk shit in a less ballsy manner than in your scenario.

You might have a semblance of an argument if the same opinion hadnt been expressed by the games own makers.......

Irrelevant. It's easy to understand the tone of the statement made by Erickson.

Toyota could launch a new concept that is much like an SUV and say "Well, we don't really consider this an SUV because we tried to do something completely different". For GM to come out and say "TOYOTA MIGHT THINK THEY HAVE AN SUV, BUT THEY DON'T BECAUSE IT DOESN'T HAVE 4WD!" is completely different in tone and intention.

Erickson deliberately dissed SE because he is insecure about the fact that Bioware makes games that people will have forgotten about in two console generations.

How is it irrelivant?

1st FF13s producer says it isnt a RPG, THEN in an interview when asked by a 3rd party if its an RPG, he offers a similar opinion to said previos annoncement by its maker.

Also he was quite clearly avoiding coming out with an "its shit" as the interviewer was quite clearly aiming for. He instead made a fairly good stab at removing FF from the equation, before answering the What makes a good RPG part of the question.

An arrogant tosser would have just said yeh FF 13s a bad game, but he didnt.

 

[Mr. In-between]

So being a game designer means you are no longer allowed to voice an opinion?

Wether you agree with it is a different matter. REading the inter view FF XIII is brought in by the interviewer who praises its story but is degrogitory about its game aspects. THe bioware rep then says;

" Well, before I address the main point I just want to take a slightly more controversial route: You can put a 'J' in front of it, but it's not an RPG. You don't make any choices, you don't create a character, you don't live your character... I don't know what those are - adventure games maybe? But they're not RPG's.

But you're absolutely right, without the systems, your nothing. One of the things we've always been aware of is that a lot of people play Baldur's Gate to death, and those people who play it 3,4 5 times aren't story guys, they're D&D guys."

At no point does he say they arent good, he just says they arent RPGs.

If he'd just issued a press statement or similar announcing that FF XIII wasnt an RPG then he'd deserve to be called an arrogant tosser. But he didnt.

a professional gd/lead writer's opinion is quite important imo.
but shouldn't this get them thinking "is this appropriate?"

I don't see how his interview is different from the hypothetical press statement you mention above...

all I'm saying is that I think this is unfair competition.

Answering a question in an interview is a very different kettle of fish to coming out and announcing with no outside influence something. He very deliberately avoided giving the answer that was looked for that was FF XIII is shit. The interviewer is clearly trying to coax that. Instead he distances the games by claiming they are different types of games, and at no point does he say one is better than the other because of it. He then answers the point about the gameplay being important after already having removed FF XIII from the equation.

If he hadn't attempted to remove the FF XIII part then he'd have directly said my games better than yours.

while you're right regarding that he didn't come out on a stage and started flinging shit at SE, but his message has the same meaning.

the interview gave him an opening to talk shit in a less ballsy manner than in your scenario.

You might have a semblance of an argument if the same opinion hadnt been expressed by the games own makers.......

Irrelevant. It's easy to understand the tone of the statement made by Erickson.

Toyota could launch a new concept that is much like an SUV and say "Well, we don't really consider this an SUV because we tried to do something completely different". For GM to come out and say "TOYOTA MIGHT THINK THEY HAVE AN SUV, BUT THEY DON'T BECAUSE IT DOESN'T HAVE 4WD!" is completely different in tone and intention.

Erickson deliberately dissed SE because he is insecure about the fact that Bioware makes games that people will have forgotten about in two console generations.

 

[the D0rk One]

So being a game designer means you are no longer allowed to voice an opinion?

Wether you agree with it is a different matter. REading the inter view FF XIII is brought in by the interviewer who praises its story but is degrogitory about its game aspects. THe bioware rep then says;

" Well, before I address the main point I just want to take a slightly more controversial route: You can put a 'J' in front of it, but it's not an RPG. You don't make any choices, you don't create a character, you don't live your character... I don't know what those are - adventure games maybe? But they're not RPG's.

But you're absolutely right, without the systems, your nothing. One of the things we've always been aware of is that a lot of people play Baldur's Gate to death, and those people who play it 3,4 5 times aren't story guys, they're D&D guys."

At no point does he say they arent good, he just says they arent RPGs.

If he'd just issued a press statement or similar announcing that FF XIII wasnt an RPG then he'd deserve to be called an arrogant tosser. But he didnt.

a professional gd/lead writer's opinion is quite important imo.
but shouldn't this get them thinking "is this appropriate?"

I don't see how his interview is different from the hypothetical press statement you mention above...

all I'm saying is that I think this is unfair competition.

Answering a question in an interview is a very different kettle of fish to coming out and announcing with no outside influence something. He very deliberately avoided giving the answer that was looked for that was FF XIII is shit. The interviewer is clearly trying to coax that. Instead he distances the games by claiming they are different types of games, and at no point does he say one is better than the other because of it. He then answers the point about the gameplay being important after already having removed FF XIII from the equation.

If he hadn't attempted to remove the FF XIII part then he'd have directly said my games better than yours.

while you're right regarding that he didn't come out on a stage and started flinging shit at SE, but his message has the same meaning.

the interview gave him an opening to talk shit in a less ballsy manner than in your scenario.

You might have a semblance of an argument if the same opinion hadnt been expressed by the games own makers.......

Irrelevant. It's easy to understand the tone of the statement made by Erickson.

Toyota could launch a new concept that is much like an SUV and say "Well, we don't really consider this an SUV because we tried to do something completely different". For GM to come out and say "TOYOTA MIGHT THINK THEY HAVE AN SUV, BUT THEY DON'T BECAUSE IT DOESN'T HAVE 4WD!" is completely different in tone and intention.

Erickson deliberately dissed SE because he is insecure about the fact that Bioware makes games that people will have forgotten about in two console generations.

How is it irrelivant?

1st FF13s producer says it isnt a RPG, THEN in an interview when asked by a 3rd party if its an RPG, he offers a similar opinion to said previos annoncement by its maker.

Also he was quite clearly avoiding coming out with an "its shit" as the interviewer was quite clearly aiming for. He instead made a fairly good stab at removing FF from the equation, before answering the What makes a good RPG part of the question.

An arrogant tosser would have just said yeh FF 13s a bad game, but he didnt.

saying ff13 isn't an rpg while he had nothing to do with the ff13 project is the same thing.

it's a less direct attack, but in the context of the interview and what makes a good rpg Erickson's "FF is not an rpg" is kind of offensive. at least to me.

 

[Mr Wednesday]

I have an idea, let's all jump on the Bioware bandwagon because we like to play the mature games that they make! It doesn't matter that the gaming community has considered Final Fantasy to be an RPG franchise for the past twenty years, Bioware doesn't like Square-Enix and I'll stick with what Bioware says because they make mature games for sophisticated, mature gamers much like myself.

Yeah, alright then mate.

We've been saying Final Fantasy isn't an RPG for years now.

 

[Mr. In-between]

I have an idea, let's all jump on the Bioware bandwagon because we like to play the mature games that they make! It doesn't matter that the gaming community has considered Final Fantasy to be an RPG franchise for the past twenty years, Bioware doesn't like Square-Enix and I'll stick with what Bioware says because they make mature games for sophisticated, mature gamers much like myself.

Yeah, alright then mate.

We've been saying Final Fantasy isn't an RPG for years now.

Who exactly is "we"? The last time I checked, most people associated with the industry still consider Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, and all similar games to be rpgs and have been doing so for over twenty years. Just because some hotshot that works for an EA subsidiary is butt hurt over the fact that his company's "cool mature games" aren't recognized on the same level as Final Fantasy titles doesn't mean anything.

 

[GestaltEsper]

I think the reason people are so defensive over this is because quite frankly, this isn't the first time Bioware's done something like this.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/96980-BioWare-Co-Founder-Accuses-JRPGs-of-Stagnation

 

[Mr Wednesday]

Who exactly is "we"? The last time I checked, most people associated with the industry still consider Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, and all similar games to be rpgs and have been doing so for over twenty years. Just because some hotshot that works for an EA subsidiary is butt hurt over the fact that his company's "cool mature games" aren't recognized on the same level as Final Fantasy titles doesn't mean anything.

You stink of fanboy.

Honestly? Do you honestly believe what you just said? Mass Effect 2 was incredibly successful, sold exceptionally well and was almost universally loved by critics. Whether or not you like their games, it's undeniable that they're doing Very Well. The "We" I refer to are those of us who've never really had much track with the Final Fantasy series. It's a theme we've been hearing for years across gaming forums. If you missed it you weren't looking.

If you really think Bioware are jealous of Square-Enix, you're blind, as equally blind if you disgregarded, again with no reference to the quality of their games, how hugely important they've been to the resurgence of the RPG in the West.

Quite frankly, when you say Bioware isn't "recognized on the same level" as the Final Fantasy series, what you mean is "I prefer FF over Bioware and nothing more." From my personal perspective, why would Bioware want to be recognized on that level when that level is "Turgid Dialogue, Dreadful Narrative, and Dull Mechanics"?

 

[Knight Templar]

Snip.

The options in Mass Effect represent two methods of getting the job done, namely consequentialism (some argue it's machiavellianism but I don't really see it) and a policy of sparing live and treating all people as equals (Again I've heard it portrayed as deontological but I don't see it)

A Mass Effect (more so second than first) presents very good moral choices, the "karma meter" doesn't negate this fact, it diminishes some of these choices but does not negate them.

You know, not just fetch quests and black and white decisions.

That is why I don't think you've played either Mass Effect and its why I'm done here.