Bioware: FF13 is not an RPG

[TheRealCJ]

Actually, to be controversial with your point, RPG is a game where characters actually develop (in skills and health and damage etc.) so FF is one, it's just you dont decide what they look like and they have a personality. You do make choices, but they are more about roles and what you choose to upgrade rather than whether to be an absolute bastard or not.

In that case, every game that I play now that has any kind of levelling up system is an RPG, according to your logic.

Ok fine, RPGs have multiple characters that are taking your orders for tactical gameplay as well. Happy now?

Nope, because now Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon is an RPG. (This is fun!)

 

[Zeroresistence]

I agree your not choosing muchand rpgs are all about customizing your character to as you see fit and customizing thier skills as well

 

[Sexbad]

Mass Effect isn't an RPG either.

 

[Helios_(DEL)]

ff13 is an rpg as long as there are classes an room for origonality its an rpg in my opinion

 

[I Max95]

To be fair neither is Mass Effect. Mass Effect 2 is a JRPG in disguise.

how the hell is mass effect (one or two) not an rpg
and how dare you insult mass effect 2 in such a manner jrpg's suck

 

[Sexbad]

how the hell is mass effect (one or two) not an rpg

Both are third person shooters with light RPG elements. All RPG elements are focused on performance in combat. Stores sell barely much other than combat stuff. Character customization is based around improving combat abilities. All dialog choices are simply to change whatever predicament you're in slightly. Sure, there are quests, but having a break in shooting in order to fetch a jellyfish a religious preaching license and earn money to buy more combat gear is still not roleplaying.

 

[Knight Templar]

how the hell is mass effect (one or two) not an rpg

Both are third person shooters with light RPG elements. All RPG elements are focused on performance in combat. Stores sell barely much other than combat stuff. Character customization is based around improving combat abilities. All dialog choices are simply to change whatever predicament you're in slightly. Sure, there are quests, but having a break in shooting in order to fetch a jellyfish a religious preaching license and earn money to buy more combat gear is still not roleplaying.

If Mass Effect is not an RPG than nothing is, turn based combat is not a must for these games. You've ignored over half the conversations as well as what the majority of side quests ask.
To be blunt you're just wrong.

 

[Laxman9292]

I wouldn't count Mass Effect as an RPG, it is as streamlined and as linear as FF13, there for if they argue Mass Effect is an RPG they are hypocrites.

Were we playing the same game??? Especially if you mean Mass Effect 1, which was significantly less linear than the second one. You have a space ship and a bunch of different planets to visit in an order of your own choosing, you do missions of your own choosing, use party members of your own choosing, use weapons and upgrade them of your own choosing, upgrade your character and gain new abilities of your own choosing, interact with NPC is a style of your own choosing (renegade/paragon morality crap). that is about as definitive of a RPG as it can get. And how many of these points apply to FF13? maybe like two (weapons and leveling with upgrades)

But none of that changes anything really, it's an illusion of choice and besides when XIII opens there are loads of missions you can choose to do.

As it ends as much as I liked Mass Effect 1 and 2, if choice is what an RPG is then an RPG Mass Effect is NOT, you have no choice not predetermined and it doesn't change anything, I understand this is because video games need limits but either both are RPGs or neither are because they both represent two sides of PnP RPGs that are restricted due to the medium

I disagree, RPGs are limited in choice because of what is feasible with the hardware, whereas FF13 did not even have a facade of choice, simply wheel around an established character that you have no control over except basic motor functions. Therefore FF13 is not an RPG, it is something but definitely not an RPG.

 

[Runding]

here's a idea let this die

He says unironically whilst bumping the thread further.

I think the meaning of RPG is a very hard thing to pin down. Can we all just agree that Bioware has made better games for the past decade?

How i measure RPS is, you know, the role you actually play. How you adopt the role of your charter and make his choices, decide his fate through yours, take your own path through an interesting world that van be approached in slightly different ways.

By that measure of an RPG STALKER is as much of an RPG as FF13

FF13 is a very passive game in it's storytelling, combat and complete lack of any vestige of exploration. sometimes you feel like you are no rials, like in that 'forest' with the fucking linear walkways that had exits blocked off by barrels and shit. This is the stuff we used to hate in bad N64 games! Linear isn't bad but Jesus get some towns or something.

If it is an RPG then it's a badly designed one. I honestly thought it was as bad as FF8.

It's not about if "Bioware makes better games than Square-Enix" or not. I think a lot of people (including myself) are angry about the arrogance that Bioware is showing due to their recent success.

I'll be the first to admit that I prefer WRPG's over JRPG's, but Biowares recent remarks are offensive and disrespectful to Square-Enix.

 

[deth2munkies]

A pure RPG is one where you create and customize your character rather than playing an existing person. So none of the Final Fantasy's past FFI are pure RPGs.

 

[Erniesrubberduk]

I could care less about the ROLE PLAYING as long as the GAME is good. FF13 was not really a game, I didnt feel i had much control on anything. Mass Effect 1 and 2 I had control on combat, the story, and my character, Mass Effect was better as a GAME, and everything else helped me get immersed into the game and keep pn playing, FF13 didnt do any of that for me

 

[the D0rk One]

here's a idea let this die

He says unironically whilst bumping the thread further.

I think the meaning of RPG is a very hard thing to pin down. Can we all just agree that Bioware has made better games for the past decade?

How i measure RPS is, you know, the role you actually play. How you adopt the role of your charter and make his choices, decide his fate through yours, take your own path through an interesting world that van be approached in slightly different ways.

By that measure of an RPG STALKER is as much of an RPG as FF13

FF13 is a very passive game in it's storytelling, combat and complete lack of any vestige of exploration. sometimes you feel like you are no rials, like in that 'forest' with the fucking linear walkways that had exits blocked off by barrels and shit. This is the stuff we used to hate in bad N64 games! Linear isn't bad but Jesus get some towns or something.

If it is an RPG then it's a badly designed one. I honestly thought it was as bad as FF8.

It's not about if "Bioware makes better games than Square-Enix" or not. I think a lot of people (including myself) are angry about the arrogance that Bioware is showing due to their recent success.

I'll be the first to admit that I prefer WRPG's over JRPG's, but Biowares recent remarks are offensive and disrespectful to Square-Enix.

totally agreed.
BW writer's behaved just like some of us here do:

"Whoa, MW2 is sooooo awesome. NOOOO, BC2 is soooo much cooler, MW2 is not even a FPS by comparison. you're dumb".

i expected a different approach, something more professional, not a speech resembling a school-yard trash talk between fans of FIFA and PES.

 

[Tony2077]

wrph jrpg fps rts sports they are what they are why keep going with all this

 

[Petromir]

So being a game designer means you are no longer allowed to voice an opinion?

Wether you agree with it is a different matter. REading the inter view FF XIII is brought in by the interviewer who praises its story but is degrogitory about its game aspects. THe bioware rep then says;

" Well, before I address the main point I just want to take a slightly more controversial route: You can put a 'J' in front of it, but it's not an RPG. You don't make any choices, you don't create a character, you don't live your character... I don't know what those are - adventure games maybe? But they're not RPG's.

But you're absolutely right, without the systems, your nothing. One of the things we've always been aware of is that a lot of people play Baldur's Gate to death, and those people who play it 3,4 5 times aren't story guys, they're D&D guys."

At no point does he say they arent good, he just says they arent RPGs.

If he'd just issued a press statement or similar announcing that FF XIII wasnt an RPG then he'd deserve to be called an arrogant tosser. But he didnt.

 

[the D0rk One]

So being a game designer means you are no longer allowed to voice an opinion?

Wether you agree with it is a different matter. REading the inter view FF XIII is brought in by the interviewer who praises its story but is degrogitory about its game aspects. THe bioware rep then says;

" Well, before I address the main point I just want to take a slightly more controversial route: You can put a 'J' in front of it, but it's not an RPG. You don't make any choices, you don't create a character, you don't live your character... I don't know what those are - adventure games maybe? But they're not RPG's.

But you're absolutely right, without the systems, your nothing. One of the things we've always been aware of is that a lot of people play Baldur's Gate to death, and those people who play it 3,4 5 times aren't story guys, they're D&D guys."

At no point does he say they arent good, he just says they arent RPGs.

If he'd just issued a press statement or similar announcing that FF XIII wasnt an RPG then he'd deserve to be called an arrogant tosser. But he didnt.

a professional gd/lead writer's opinion is quite important imo.
but shouldn't this get them thinking "is this appropriate?"

I don't see how his interview is different from the hypothetical press statement you mention above...

all I'm saying is that I think this is unfair competition.

 

[Petromir]

So being a game designer means you are no longer allowed to voice an opinion?

Wether you agree with it is a different matter. REading the inter view FF XIII is brought in by the interviewer who praises its story but is degrogitory about its game aspects. THe bioware rep then says;

" Well, before I address the main point I just want to take a slightly more controversial route: You can put a 'J' in front of it, but it's not an RPG. You don't make any choices, you don't create a character, you don't live your character... I don't know what those are - adventure games maybe? But they're not RPG's.

But you're absolutely right, without the systems, your nothing. One of the things we've always been aware of is that a lot of people play Baldur's Gate to death, and those people who play it 3,4 5 times aren't story guys, they're D&D guys."

At no point does he say they arent good, he just says they arent RPGs.

If he'd just issued a press statement or similar announcing that FF XIII wasnt an RPG then he'd deserve to be called an arrogant tosser. But he didnt.

a professional gd/lead writer's opinion is quite important imo.
but shouldn't this get them thinking "is this appropriate?"

I don't see how his interview is different from the hypothetical press statement you mention above...

all I'm saying is that I think this is unfair competition.

Answering a question in an interview is a very different kettle of fish to coming out and announcing with no outside influence something. He very deliberately avoided giving the answer that was looked for that was FF XIII is shit. The interviewer is clearly trying to coax that. Instead he distances the games by claiming they are different types of games, and at no point does he say one is better than the other because of it. He then answers the point about the gameplay being important after already having removed FF XIII from the equation.

If he hadn't attempted to remove the FF XIII part then he'd have directly said my games better than yours.

 

[Legion]

I also agree with that notion, but the issue is that there is no clear definition on what defines something as an RPG. Borderlands and Bioshock have "RPG elements" but they are merely levelling up systems and upgrades, if they count as RPG elements then the line is a little fuzzy.

If Borderlands and Bioshock based on their leveling systems are RPGs, then so are MW2 and FIFA10.

Exactly my point. They need to make it clearer what makes something an RPG and what doesn't.

 

[I Max95]

how the hell is mass effect (one or two) not an rpg

Both are third person shooters with light RPG elements. All RPG elements are focused on performance in combat. Stores sell barely much other than combat stuff. Character customization is based around improving combat abilities. All dialog choices are simply to change whatever predicament you're in slightly. Sure, there are quests, but having a break in shooting in order to fetch a jellyfish a religious preaching license and earn money to buy more combat gear is still not roleplaying.

in roleplaying games you as the player take on a role
that is what makes a roleplaying game and in mass effect you create your character and choose what role to play you create shepard from the ground up backstory class personality friends enemies
not ALL RPG elements are on combat createing a character is an rpg element as well
that's roleplaying


but jrpg's give you a role you dont choose it
its all been decided that is what makes it not an rpg

 

[Sexbad]

how the hell is mass effect (one or two) not an rpg

Both are third person shooters with light RPG elements. All RPG elements are focused on performance in combat. Stores sell barely much other than combat stuff. Character customization is based around improving combat abilities. All dialog choices are simply to change whatever predicament you're in slightly. Sure, there are quests, but having a break in shooting in order to fetch a jellyfish a religious preaching license and earn money to buy more combat gear is still not roleplaying.

If Mass Effect is not an RPG than nothing is, turn based combat is not a must for these games. You've ignored over half the conversations as well as what the majority of side quests ask.
To be blunt you're just wrong.

Okay. So picking between an asshole response and an angel response is roleplaying? I never said anything about a game needing turn based combat to be an RPG. Turn based combat is normally a terrible idea. It just needs to be less combat-based and have more personalization. You know, not just fetch quests and black and white decisions.

Fallout

 

[Socius]

Isn't it the same case with Diablo? All the characters you can play with are already created and there are no choices to be made by the players. But it's still considered an RPG. Same with Zelda.
/quote]

For the love of..
I don't know how many damn times I say this per week.
Zelda is not an RPG damn you! its not even considered one!
Its and Action Adventure game! It's not more of a rpg than Pacman!