Bioware has changed... kinda.

[Insideout Ink Demon]

Am I the only one that was disappointed with Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age II?

Every time you utter the phrase "am I the only one..." all the other people that are/doing/feeling/whatever, what you are about to desribe have their life spans shortened, and that a lot of people, this is the internet, not trying to be rude but if you think you are the only person with a given opinion you are incredibly wrong and you just might have an inflated opinion of yourself.

Again, I'm not trying to be a dick or anything, I'm just laying down some truth, you dig?

Also, i'd like to add onto your point, on the Escapist it has been stated by alot of die hard fans that there are plenty of people who didn't like ME2 or especially DA2.

OT: I am losing interest in BW.
DA2 was the first of their games I started but didnt finish.
ME2 just did not feel as immersive for me as ME1 (no thanks to Jack "I'm a bad ass b*tch lol)
they have a new formula that doesnt really work for me, so unless that formula changes; ME3 will be my last BW game that i pay for new. the future releases will be 2nd hand or bargin bin purchases.

not saying the new BW are awful, just they're not the type of games i luv.
good luck to them though, I'm sure they're still making a lot of money

 

[EvilMaggot]

i liked ME1, ME2 CANT wait for the third, loved DA1, DA2... has grown on me, CANT wait if they make a third, and already preordered SWTOR... also got all thier KoTOR Titles... i reckon im a BioWare slut... YAY!

 

[Jake Martinez]

Dragon Age 2 was a red hot mess. Mass Effect 2 was a pretty good game, but it was uninspired gameplay combined with a great story.

Dragon Age 2 was terrible game play combined with a mediocre story.

And yes - I think EA has been a factor in this. I think they are dumbing down games and following trends instead of being creative and artistic.

 

[Simeon Ivanov]

I preffer Mass Effect 2, to 1 in terms of gameplay, but 1 had the better story. And Dragon Age II ... well I liked the combat because I'm a fan of Devil May Cry, but Origins was better.

 

[Tanksenior]

Mass Effect 2 has plot holes so large that the Destiny Ascension could slide right through and still have plenty of manouvering space.

I keep seeing people accuse ME2 of having huge plot holes. But whenever I ask them to elaborate, they never respond.

So... care to elaborate? What exactly were these huge plot holes?

I think that Shamus Young dissected the entire storytelling problem with Mass Effect 2 pretty well, so I'll let his excellent posts on the topic be my reply: http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=7004

Just quoting this again because I didn't see any replies to the Shamus Young post by the people here.

I think it raises some very interesting points and I believe he is right for the most part.

 

[honestdiscussioner]

I'll agree and disagree with you.

Certainly Bioware seemed to be moving away from the RPG aspect of gaming, they said so themselves. They did say, however, they might be returning to it, in ME3.

And certainly DA:O was better than DA2. However I'd still say DA2 is a great game . . . or at least it would be a great game if it wasn't called Dragon Age 2. If it wasn't a Dragon Age game, or maybe it was Dragon Age: Side Story, that would have been acceptable too. Unfortunately, it didn't feel like a dragon age game, and there were enough differences in the world to make you acutely aware of that fact. When they discuss the Hero of Ferelden, you almost don't think they are actually talking about your former Warden, that this is a parallel universe.

Hmm . . . hey Bioware . . . I found a way out . . . DA2 was in a parallel universe. That's why the Darkspawn look more like random summoned creatures and not a nearly mindless unending hoarde. That's why the Templar uniform is changed.

I do feel DA2 is a good game, I disagree that the characters were deficient in any way. I think they each brought something to the table . . . except for maybe Anders who they basically just decided to butcher and make nearly everyone hate and relatively beloved character.
**spoiler**

Spoiler

When Anders destroys innocent lives by attacking the Chantry, I killed him. No second guessing, no remorse, nothing. He was a shadow of his former self, and that shadow wasn't very entertaining.

I think I'm going to have to write another post on this.

 

[Zhukov]

Mass Effect 2 has plot holes so large that the Destiny Ascension could slide right through and still have plenty of manouvering space.

I keep seeing people accuse ME2 of having huge plot holes. But whenever I ask them to elaborate, they never respond.

So... care to elaborate? What exactly were these huge plot holes?

I think that Shamus Young dissected the entire storytelling problem with Mass Effect 2 pretty well, so I'll let his excellent posts on the topic be my reply: http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=7004

Ok, some of those are fair enough.

I agree that the final choice (destroy/preserve the collector base) was very poorly done. I also agree that there was a distinct lack of plot progression, although I think that's an inherent part of being in the middle of a trilogy while still trying to deliver some sort of self contained narrative (See: Halo 2, "I'm here to finish the fight").

Also, now that I think about it, the Alliance not doing anything about the abduction was silly and contrived. Same goes for Chakwas and Joker joining Cerberus.

The rest of his points... not so much.

- The "reboot" elements. They weren't necessary and I wish it could have been handled otherwise, but I don't see it as a plot hole.

- I consider the lack of foreshadowing regarding Cerberus and The Illusive man to be a weakness in the first game, not the second. And if turning them into well-intentioned extremists with amoral methods constitutes a retcon, then I say it's a retcon for the better. The Cerberus of ME2 was a great deal more interesting than the organisation from ME1 which consisted of nothing more than, "Evil, lol!"

- Reapers using organics. They did this a ton in ME1. Indoctrination. The Keepers. Corrupting the Rachni. Using Saren. And Vigil mentioned extensive use of indoctrinated Protheans.

- The bug. Mordin grew/built it from the data provided by the Quarian survivor.

- Final boss. We don't know the details of how Reapers are made. If they require organic components (colonist slurpee) then... yeah. What exactly contradicts this? The fact that it has a metal shell? Hardly. As for why they were building it, it's reproduction. Self perpetuation. Isn't that a reason unto itself?

 

[Quellist]

I loved the first ME and DA, the sequels not so much. ME2 was a semi-dissapointment, DA2 an enormous one.

I guess they just went mass-market and hardcore RPG fans are too small a demographic for them to really care about anymore...

 

[LogicNProportion]

I liked Mass Effect 2 a lot.

Haven't played Dragon Age 2, but having watched some friends take turns with it makes me sad because Dragon Age: Origins was one of my favorite games this gen.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

Mass Effect 2 kept enough Mass Effect to keep my interest. I've beaten it a couple of times and can't wait for the third.

Dragon Age 2 was just so jarringly different from the original that I couldn't even see it through to the end once. It felt more like Mass Effect to me only instead of run-n-gunning you're playing a beat-em-up with magic. I also hated that I had to play as a human. I have to play as a human in the real world...human's aren't all that fun.

 

[TheBritishAreComing]

I liked ME2 for the more fluid game-play, but it never even came close to the dialogue or story of ME1. and we all know how DA2 turned out.

 

[FateOrFatality]

It's EA. They've ruined Bioware. I intend to buy ME3 so I can finish the story I started years ago, and then stay away from Bioware until they fix their shit.

I loved Mass Effect 1 and Dragon Age: Origins - they are some of my all time favorite games. ME2 was no where near as good as it's predecessor (although I still enjoyed it), and DA2 was the worst game I've played in a long time. There is definitely worse out there, but I only buy games I think I'll like and I don't like Bioware's games anymore.

 

[LTAshler]

I want my ME1 combat systems back; Alpha strikes with multiple abilities, allies and enemies that actually have reasonable health, and the ability to semi-safely run around a battlefield rather than having to stay behind cover.

Wait, You *Like* having broken, uninteresting combat? Look I'm all for heavy RPG elements but when it comes to gunplay, keep your grimy mitts off my aim.

 

[goldfalsebond]

no, you are not the only one, because no one is the only one with anything. not even the kid who is taking SCUBA lessons with the goal of becoming a Big Daddy is the only one....wait, that might be an exception, but who knows?

 

[Dr. wonderful]

Look, just because their last couple of games (developed by separate teams, no less) have had some subjective missteps (some more vocally addressed than others) does not mean "OMG THEY HAVE CHANGED FOR THE WORSE!" or that they have changed at all. Quit being fickle and give them the benefit of a track record before you start jumping down their throats.

Hey...you took my picture D:

Anywhoo.

Dragon age 2 and Origins are both damn good games. I also laughed whenever someone says they didn't have a choice about the endgame for 2. You have a choice: Fight templars or Fight Mages. That the choice. There is no 3rd option because Anders took that option out.

I've actually begun to wonder if BioWare's fame has gone to their heads.

After playing Dragon Age 2 (waiting until it was on sale for $10 on Impulse), I find myself baffled that they actually thought it would outsell Origins. Not because it was a bad game, it was pretty good.

The problem is that it is clear very little effort went into it.

The story is... well, absent. People keep saying the story is Hawke's "Rise to Power," but that's the problem. The hero's journey from pauper to Hero is an intrinsic part of any Fantasy Story. However, it's supposed to be driven by the main plot, with the main character's arc being a component of that. Origins did this, in fact, they had 6 potential arcs in a single story. Dragon Age 2's story isn't a story, it's a single character arc.

The side characters are also weak. The game does a decent job of fleshing them out eventually, but it comes to slowly. By the time you've learned enough to be interested in them, they've ceased to have any impact. A big thing that bugged me at least is there is no reason for most of them to be following you around. Varric, I understand, at least in the beginning, since he's helping you raise the money to join the expedition. But Merril? Why did she stick around after moving to town? Fenris? He's a fugitive, shouldn't he be laying low, or hunting that mage instead of following a rather well known figure around? Similar with Isabella. And why is the CAPTAIN OF THE GUARD following you?? There is no reason for it, and it makes the characters uninteresting because they're not acting like rational people.

There were things I liked about the game. The combat was actually kind of fun, even if there is way too much of it. The visual style is also much improved over Origins. I just feel that not enough time was spent on the game, and yet BioWare still expected to sell approx 5 million copies.

I honestly think they've fallen in love with their own legend. They've started to think they can do what they want and treat fans how they want and still be a huge deal. The saddest part is they may be right.

They've been one of my favorite developers for a very long time, but it's quickly getting to the point that everything I read about them makes me sad. This whole thing with the Liara statue is just the icing on the cake.

We've had a good run BioWare, but I think maybe it's time we parted ways.

I don't think it's that they've gotten drunk on fame and fandom...it's just that they've been bought by EA.

Un-huh.

So EA never ever had anything to do with Origins?

 

[tmande2nd]

Oh dear sweet Cthulhu why most this be brought up EVERY day?

Having played every bioware game from Baulder's gate through to Dragon Age 2, yes they have changed.
But then again so has gaming in general.

Go on, go back and try to play Baulder's gate.
Its a terrible looking, poorly explained thingy. The only reason I beat it so long ago was because I knew D and D very well from playing that with friends.

While I openly mock DA2 and ME2 for their stories, plot holes, and their genral linerairty. I do not think that they are going in a bad direction.

If they never changed we would still be playing emotionless mute androids that telepathically sent their thoughts to other people. While we stared at the back of their heads.

Also I expect to be flamed for having just said that from cRPG players who still like that.

 

[krazykidd]

Am I the only one that was disappointed with Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age II?

Every time you utter the phrase "am I the only one..." all the other people that are/doing/feeling/whatever, what you are about to desribe have their life spans shortened, and that a lot of people, this is the internet, not trying to be rude but if you think you are the only person with a given opinion you are incredibly wrong and you just might have an inflated opinion of yourself.

Again, I'm not trying to be a dick or anything, I'm just laying down some truth, you dig?

Not necessarily , if i say , am i the only one that liked deus ex : invisible war more than the original and HR , i would probably get laughed at , then stoned , then hanged then laughed at some more . And the 5 other people in the world that believes will abstain from agreeing with me .( this is an example i in no way, forme , or manner believe invisible war is better than any game )

OT : i liked ME2 more than ME1 , it was more fun to play and i am a big fan or rpgs and i hate 3rd person cover based shooter :/ . I did prefer dragon age origins to dragon age 2 , but i did find DA 2 fun to play even though the story was terrible ( non-existant even )

 

[putowtin]

Look, just because their last couple of games (developed by separate teams, no less) have had some subjective missteps (some more vocally addressed than others) does not mean "OMG THEY HAVE CHANGED FOR THE WORSE!" or that they have changed at all. Quit being fickle and give them the benefit of a track record before you start jumping down their throats.

Bravo my good man, bravo!

(I really like ME2 and DAII so there we go)

 

[GeorgW]

What worries me is that their co-founder said that RPGs are irrelevant, plus the EA factor. Still, I'd like to see how TOR is gonna turn out, they have spent most of their time and effort on it...