Blizzad reveals new characters for Overwatch

[scotth266]

Snip

I'm both happy and disappointed by the news of more characters for Overwatch - happy because the new characters look fun and interesting, disappointed because a vocal minority of people will continue to ***** about how it isn't good enough because "OMG THE OTHER FEMALE CHARACTERS STILL SUCK".

I already wrote my thoughts [http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1si999n] on this stuff before, so I don't really see a need to repeat them, though I find it interesting that the same crowd that jeered the other female character's lack of bodily protection will probably celebrate this new character (who has no arm armor).

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

I'm both happy and disappointed by the news of more characters for Overwatch - happy because the new characters look fun and interesting, disappointed because a vocal minority of people will continue to ***** about how it isn't good enough because "OMG THE OTHER FEMALE CHARACTERS STILL SUCK".

I already wrote my thoughts [http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1si999n] on this stuff before, so I don't really see a need to repeat them, though I find it interesting that the same crowd that jeered the other female character's lack of bodily protection will probably celebrate this new character (who has no arm armor).

I think the problem that most people had (Or at least I had) wasn't that that the female characters were bad, it's just that they felt kind of samey. Only one of them was slightly bigger than the other four, and all of them had the same general body type and were pretty. Seriously I think it's an unspoken rule in video game devlopment that if you make a female character, she needs to be skinny and attractive. Also with robots and aliens they need to look human and also attractive (Looking back on my writing I realize I've fallen into this trap myself and I'm still kicking myself over it) while male aliens and robots can look cool and unconventional.

Don't get me wrong I still like the other female characters (Tracer in particular) it just feels like the gaming industry is stuck in a bit of a rut and only know how to develop so many female characters. They can still be done well but variety is the spice of life as they say. Thankfully Blizzard seems to be getting out of this rut a bit with Zarya, who doesn't have a stereotypical attractive body type, and while she's hardly ugly, she feels a little rough around the edges, which is a nice change of pace.

 

[inmunitas]

They where just complaining it didn't have what they wanted though. It also doesn't have a rock monster, or a snake lady, or an aborigine, or a little green alien in a flying spaceship. That's not criticism, that's just people imposing petty unrealistic expectations. Adding those in wouldn't make the game any "better", just adds more characters, which isn't always a good thing.

Complaining that it didn't have what they wanted despite Blizzard saying that it would have what they wanted. Not really sure why you're so against this. Blizzard said they wanted a diverse cast and they're delivering on their promise. The criticism was when they delivered short on what they SAID that they would do. And even if they didn't the female cast just looked pathetic next to the male cast when it was first released.

Blizzard said it would have a diverse cast and it did. It just wasn't the "right kind" of diversity for a small group of people, so they've thrown in a generic Ms. Male character in to please them. Just like Capcom added the old-style Dante skin into Devil May Cry.

 

[Erttheking]

They where just complaining it didn't have what they wanted though. It also doesn't have a rock monster, or a snake lady, or an aborigine, or a little green alien in a flying spaceship. That's not criticism, that's just people imposing petty unrealistic expectations. Adding those in wouldn't make the game any "better", just adds more characters, which isn't always a good thing.

Complaining that it didn't have what they wanted despite Blizzard saying that it would have what they wanted. Not really sure why you're so against this. Blizzard said they wanted a diverse cast and they're delivering on their promise. The criticism was when they delivered short on what they SAID that they would do. And even if they didn't the female cast just looked pathetic next to the male cast when it was first released.

Blizzard said it would have a diverse cast and it did. It just wasn't the "right kind" of diversity for a small group of people, so they've thrown in a generic Ms. Male character in to please them. Just like Capcom added the old-style Dante skin into Devil May Cry.

If it's just a vocal minority then clearly Blizzard didn't have very much faith in their work. Tell me something, when can a developer take criticism, change their work, and not be betraying their vision? In writing there's a reason we have rough drafts, have other people look at them, and then change it based on feedback. It's possible for a developer to release "Oh, this isn't as good as I thought it was, I guess I should change it"

Also Ms. Male character? I have no idea what you're talking about. Unless you're saying that every large Russian that uses a heavy weapon rips off TF2. If that's the case, Predators ripped off TF2 as well. Also I don't think you know what a Ms. Male character is, because that's not what a Ms. Male character is.

 

[inmunitas]

They where just complaining it didn't have what they wanted though. It also doesn't have a rock monster, or a snake lady, or an aborigine, or a little green alien in a flying spaceship. That's not criticism, that's just people imposing petty unrealistic expectations. Adding those in wouldn't make the game any "better", just adds more characters, which isn't always a good thing.

Complaining that it didn't have what they wanted despite Blizzard saying that it would have what they wanted. Not really sure why you're so against this. Blizzard said they wanted a diverse cast and they're delivering on their promise. The criticism was when they delivered short on what they SAID that they would do. And even if they didn't the female cast just looked pathetic next to the male cast when it was first released.

Blizzard said it would have a diverse cast and it did. It just wasn't the "right kind" of diversity for a small group of people, so they've thrown in a generic Ms. Male character in to please them. Just like Capcom added the old-style Dante skin into Devil May Cry.

If it's just a vocal minority then clearly Blizzard didn't have very much faith in their work. Tell me something, when can a developer take criticism, change their work, and not be betraying their vision? In writing there's a reason we have rough drafts, have other people look at them, and then change it based on feedback. It's possible for a developer to release "Oh, this isn't as good as I thought it was, I guess I should change it"

Also Ms. Male character? I have no idea what you're talking about. Unless you're saying that every large Russian that uses a heavy weapon rips off TF2. If that's the case, Predators ripped off TF2 as well. Also I don't think you know what a Ms. Male character is, because that's not what a Ms. Male character is.

It has nothing to do with "faith in their work" or "this is a good idea", it's just PR/lip-service. If you've been following the games industry for a number of years you should be use to the same old clichés being thrown around by the big studios, it's all business spiel and marketing BS.

 

[Erttheking]

They where just complaining it didn't have what they wanted though. It also doesn't have a rock monster, or a snake lady, or an aborigine, or a little green alien in a flying spaceship. That's not criticism, that's just people imposing petty unrealistic expectations. Adding those in wouldn't make the game any "better", just adds more characters, which isn't always a good thing.

Complaining that it didn't have what they wanted despite Blizzard saying that it would have what they wanted. Not really sure why you're so against this. Blizzard said they wanted a diverse cast and they're delivering on their promise. The criticism was when they delivered short on what they SAID that they would do. And even if they didn't the female cast just looked pathetic next to the male cast when it was first released.

Blizzard said it would have a diverse cast and it did. It just wasn't the "right kind" of diversity for a small group of people, so they've thrown in a generic Ms. Male character in to please them. Just like Capcom added the old-style Dante skin into Devil May Cry.

If it's just a vocal minority then clearly Blizzard didn't have very much faith in their work. Tell me something, when can a developer take criticism, change their work, and not be betraying their vision? In writing there's a reason we have rough drafts, have other people look at them, and then change it based on feedback. It's possible for a developer to release "Oh, this isn't as good as I thought it was, I guess I should change it"

Also Ms. Male character? I have no idea what you're talking about. Unless you're saying that every large Russian that uses a heavy weapon rips off TF2. If that's the case, Predators ripped off TF2 as well. Also I don't think you know what a Ms. Male character is, because that's not what a Ms. Male character is.

It has nothing to do with "faith in their work" or "this is a good idea", it's just PR/lip-service. If you've been following the games industry for a number of years you should be use to the same old clichés being thrown around by the big studios, it's all business spiel and marketing BS.

If that's the case, there was never any artistic integrity in Overwatch and you complaining about pandering is a moot point because they were already pandering.

 

[inmunitas]

They where just complaining it didn't have what they wanted though. It also doesn't have a rock monster, or a snake lady, or an aborigine, or a little green alien in a flying spaceship. That's not criticism, that's just people imposing petty unrealistic expectations. Adding those in wouldn't make the game any "better", just adds more characters, which isn't always a good thing.

Complaining that it didn't have what they wanted despite Blizzard saying that it would have what they wanted. Not really sure why you're so against this. Blizzard said they wanted a diverse cast and they're delivering on their promise. The criticism was when they delivered short on what they SAID that they would do. And even if they didn't the female cast just looked pathetic next to the male cast when it was first released.

Blizzard said it would have a diverse cast and it did. It just wasn't the "right kind" of diversity for a small group of people, so they've thrown in a generic Ms. Male character in to please them. Just like Capcom added the old-style Dante skin into Devil May Cry.

If it's just a vocal minority then clearly Blizzard didn't have very much faith in their work. Tell me something, when can a developer take criticism, change their work, and not be betraying their vision? In writing there's a reason we have rough drafts, have other people look at them, and then change it based on feedback. It's possible for a developer to release "Oh, this isn't as good as I thought it was, I guess I should change it"

Also Ms. Male character? I have no idea what you're talking about. Unless you're saying that every large Russian that uses a heavy weapon rips off TF2. If that's the case, Predators ripped off TF2 as well. Also I don't think you know what a Ms. Male character is, because that's not what a Ms. Male character is.

It has nothing to do with "faith in their work" or "this is a good idea", it's just PR/lip-service. If you've been following the games industry for a number of years you should be use to the same old clichés being thrown around by the big studios, it's all business spiel and marketing BS.

If that's the case, there was never any artistic integrity in Overwatch and you complaining about pandering is a moot point because they were already pandering.

Of course there is artistic integrity, and of course some of that is going to be based on what they think sells well. Hence why you don't see a lot of diversity when it comes to female characters in titles from major publishes, because the business/marketing people don't think it will sell. Until you can prove to them that players don't purchase games based on character appearance, nothing will change in that regard.

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

Ok then, so what point are you trying to make now? Because that post wasn't even slightly related to overwatch or your original point.

 

[scotth266]

I think the problem that most people had (Or at least I had) wasn't that that the female characters were bad, it's just that they felt kind of samey. Only one of them was slightly bigger than the other four, and all of them had the same general body type and were pretty. Seriously I think it's an unspoken rule in video game devlopment that if you make a female character, she needs to be skinny and attractive.

I would take this complaint a little more seriously if the people making it didn't tend to sound so shrill about it (you don't, but some other people I've seen talking about it have been really obnoxious).

Quite honestly it feels like what's being debated half the time isn't the appearance of the characters but the tastes of the players (which is what I was trying to go for in my twitlonger). I can understand why people might want more diverse characters, and I can understand why people might want a generically sexy cast. There's a reason Dead or Alive has survived alongside other fighting games like Street Fighter (to use a generic example). But for some people, the existence of Dead or Alive is an affront - they keep acting as if it's some crime against nature, when in reality it's just that it's a game series made for a different audience.

I'm happy with the new character and it's nice to see that the shitstorm that got stewed actually improved the game's variety somewhat. I just wish that people wouldn't get so up-in-arms and essentially arguing that people enjoying things is bad.

 

[DocJ]

McCree actually might be interesting enough to pull me away from Tracer for a little while. As Tracer is the only character I had planned on playing before.

 

[Someone Depressing]

I saw a GIF set of Zarya on Tumblr and people going crazy about how cute she is. And yes. She is so damn cute.

I don't think enough is being done to differentiate female designs - because let's face it, this is to discuss the female designs - though they are hit-and-miss in their own right. Zarya might be a step in the right direction, though that's whether you believe she's just a rehash of the other female designs with a different physique or whether she has a more varied and unique body type and appearance.

So lesson learned today: Zarya is cute (?).

 

[inmunitas]

Snip

Ok then, so what point are you trying to make now? Because that post wasn't even slightly related to overwatch or your original point.

That complaining about "diversity" doesn't achieve anything, and is anti-progressive. Developers should have the freedom to make what they want, and not be dictated on what they should or shouldn't include.

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

Ok then, so what point are you trying to make now? Because that post wasn't even slightly related to overwatch or your original point.

That complaining about "diversity" doesn't achieve anything, and is anti-progressive. Developers should have the freedom to make what they want, and not be dictated on what they should or shouldn't include.

First of all it clearly does something considering that Blizzard listened to the criticism, so you're wrong on one account. Second of all, saying that complaining about a lack of diversity is anti-progress is a completly baseless statement because otherwise you're accepting of the stagnate status quo, so you're wrong on two accounts. And finally, no one "Dicatated" anything. Fans didn't hold a gun to the hands of Blizzard and force them to create these characters. They did it because THEY wanted a diverse cast, they flat out said so.

So all your points are moot.

 

[MrCalavera_v1legacy]

John Marston from DA FUTURE and Heavy Lazors Girl.

Eh, not bad, though i'm more interested how they'll play.

 

[inmunitas]

Snip

Ok then, so what point are you trying to make now? Because that post wasn't even slightly related to overwatch or your original point.

That complaining about "diversity" doesn't achieve anything, and is anti-progressive. Developers should have the freedom to make what they want, and not be dictated on what they should or shouldn't include.

First of all it clearly does something considering that Blizzard listened to the criticism, so you're wrong on one account. Second of all, saying that complaining about a lack of diversity is anti-progress is a completly baseless statement because otherwise you're accepting of the stagnate status quo, so you're wrong on two accounts. And finally, no one "Dicatated" anything. Fans didn't hold a gun to the hands of Blizzard and force them to create these characters. They did it because THEY wanted a diverse cast, they flat out said so.

So all your points are moot.

"Listened to the criticism" and "avoiding negative PR when you're just about to launch a new franchise" are the same? Complaining about a lack of diversity is anti-progress and only re-enforces the status quo, that being how are character looks matters in a game and will effect sales, when research shows players don't identify with video game characters [http://www.digra.org/wp-content/uploads/digital-library/11313.28005.pdf]. If you actually went with how a character looks doesn't matter to most players, then devs would be able to include any character they wanted, and counter the publishers who think including a female protagonists is a "risky business adventure".

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

Well not listening to criticism is a pretty bad form of PR so...in a way. Really? Really? See, here's the flaw with your argument. I didn't say jack about diversity affecting sales. When I complain about the lack of diversity in a game, I'm complaining about a shortcoming of the game, because people do that, even to games they love. So once again your point is moot. Therefore my argument isn't "anti-progress" or whatever. And I am praising devs for making the characters they want. I'm doing it right now. For some reason you seem to have a problem with it. I'm not going to keep my mouth shut on criticism because of the concept that saying Overwatch has a lack of diverse female characters will cause publishers to think female progatonists is a risky business venture. Somehow.

Really I'm less concerned about publishers panicking over problems that don't exist and more concerned about how you seem to think the best route would be that people shouldn't voice their criticisms. I just can't get behind that mindset.

 

[inmunitas]

Snip

Well not listening to criticism is a pretty bad form of PR so...in a way. Really? Really? See, here's the flaw with your argument. I didn't say jack about diversity affecting sales. When I complain about the lack of diversity in a game, I'm complaining about a shortcoming of the game, because people do that, even to games they love. So once again your point is moot. Therefore my argument isn't "anti-progress" or whatever. And I am praising devs for making the characters they want. I'm doing it right now. For some reason you seem to have a problem with it. I'm not going to keep my mouth shut on criticism because of the concept that saying Overwatch has a lack of diverse female characters will cause publishers to think female protagonists is a risky business venture. Somehow.

Really I'm less concerned about publishers panicking over problems that don't exist and more concerned about how you seem to think the best route would be that people can't voice their criticisms. I just can't get behind that mindset.

No, publishers already do think a female protagonists is a risky business venture, that's the real problem.

http://www.pcgamer.com/remember-me-publisher-female-hero/
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/01/developer-publishers-didnt-want-a-female-lead-in-our-video-game/

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

Well not listening to criticism is a pretty bad form of PR so...in a way. Really? Really? See, here's the flaw with your argument. I didn't say jack about diversity affecting sales. When I complain about the lack of diversity in a game, I'm complaining about a shortcoming of the game, because people do that, even to games they love. So once again your point is moot. Therefore my argument isn't "anti-progress" or whatever. And I am praising devs for making the characters they want. I'm doing it right now. For some reason you seem to have a problem with it. I'm not going to keep my mouth shut on criticism because of the concept that saying Overwatch has a lack of diverse female characters will cause publishers to think female protagonists is a risky business venture. Somehow.

Really I'm less concerned about publishers panicking over problems that don't exist and more concerned about how you seem to think the best route would be that people can't voice their criticisms. I just can't get behind that mindset.

No, publishers already do think a female protagonists is a risky business venture, that's the real problem.

http://www.pcgamer.com/remember-me-publisher-female-hero/
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/01/developer-publishers-didnt-want-a-female-lead-in-our-video-game/

I know. I hate that.

It really doesn't connect to this though. I've already explained why in my previous post.

 

[Vigormortis]

snip

As opposed to Blizzard, who, for almost the entirety of their existence, has ripped-off pop culture hits? (namely: Lord of the Rings, Alien, and Predator)

If you're going to ***** about something, at least be fair about it. Cripes.

I keep waiting for the TF2 jingle to burst out at the end of each of these trailers...

I'm sure that's Acti-Blizz's intention. Blizzard has a talent for utilizing nostalgia for great effect; even if it's from other franchises.

That said, while not necessarily the most original character designs, I do like these two new ones. Though, this is far less the case with the 'badass cowboy from the future'. I dunno, it just doesn't do it for me.

However....

I'm not gonna lie, I find that body type easy on the eyes so no complaints here.

Same here. Both male and female bodybuilders sometimes take it way too far (years ago I heard one described as looking like "a condom full of walnuts") but functional muscles like Zarya's look good.

Completely agree with you both.