Born gay, Chose to be gay, Can't it be both?

[Double A]

Oh for crap's sake, it's neither. It's psychological. There is no gay gene, and if there was, natural selection would eliminate it. Choice makes sense, especially for bored rich people, but people who are gay and can't explain it, is psychological.

 

[pipers_r_gods]

Because you don't choose your sexuality, the same way you don't choose your beliefs. If you believe something or are something, you just are naturally, there is no choice.

Just to let you know, beliefs are things that we DO have a choice in. If you have a belief in something, then you also have the opportunity to question that belief and make a decision on whether or not you wish to keep it. As a reply to the thread, there wouldn't be much sense choosing to be gay if you had no previous impulse or biological need to do so. Either way, it's something that should be respected as it does no one else any harm.

 

[Nimcha]

I'd like to think that when the genes were handed out I got the one that made me attracted to women, as did the majority of men.

 

[Whitenail]

If we're capable of choosing our sexuality then when did I choose to be heterosexual?

 

[blankedboy]

Goddamnit.

You can't choose to be gay, okay? Get it into your skull. I'm talking to everyone who thinks you can here, not just OP.

There is a small exception that KINDA counts, if you're naturally bi (like me) and just choose not to date girls for whatever reason.

Offtopicish personal thingy, part of me wishes I was exclusively straight so that I wouldn't have to deal with all this controversial bullshit and coming out to my parents and such (coming out to friends, especially online, is EEZHEY), but another part of me wishes I was exclusively gay so that I would get to deal with all of that. I'm messed up, nevermind me xD

"Hey guys, I'm going to be gay now!"

The hilarious thing is, I've actually used that line before xD
It was true, but it was also a joke in itself
Read the rest of my post if you don't get how it makes sense.

 

[Doive]

I see a lot of people on both sides arguing if people were born gay or chose to be gay themselves. What I don't see is anyone saying both camps are just as valid as the other. Rarely, other animals beside human have exhibited gay behavior before, clearly showing it can be a rare natural occurrence. But we humans also have free will, meaning you can, indeed, choose to be gay. I'm sure both types of gays exist, they're equally valid. So why does it need to be one or the other?

....What?! As far as I know, being gay isn't a choice, you either like girls, or like guys, or like both. There is no such thing as "choosing" to be gay, a straight person can't just conjure homosexual feelings. I'd say the closest to it would be to "choose" to accept that you were born gay.

 

[Kagim]

I do not feel i can make it any clearer. Then again, you quoted me, with that sentence intact, and still seem to think i am a neo nazi.... I guess asking the hard questions is a bad idea when you know people won't actually read everything you say.

I read what you said. How else could I have answered it?

I don't know. Intelligently maybe? Since if something such as a gay gene were to be discovered that is a possibility we as a society must face, and talking about it now before anything like this could happen is better then plugging your ears screaming "NO ONE WOULD EVER DO THAT BRINGING UP THIS CONVERSATION MEANS YOUR A NAZI NAH NAH NAH NAH NAH!" is not exactly a mature way to approach a scary possibility.

You posted a flakey sounding disclaimer

Did you read the other points, or anything else I have written in here so far. This isn't my first post here by the way. At no point do i think aborting children or deleting certain gense is a good thing. Hell, if you read my other posts you'd find i don't think such a gene even exists. However i offered this up as discussion since many people are throwing out the "Your born like it!" idea. I realize looking into what someone said before is a lot of work, but if your going to scream nazi at least do some research in what the person may have said prior.

and then went on to write out a bunch of inflammatory, over-used and disproved talking points.

I wrote that if a gay gene did exist do you think people would begin justifying aborting the baby or deleting said genes. I at no point said "it's awesome we should all do it yo!". Reading carefully rather then half reading then jumping to conclusions would illuminate this to you.

You then proceeded to ignore the rebuttal you were offered.

What rebuttal. I was asking people how they might feel about this particular concept and how people would act in that particular scenario. I wasn't stating "We should abort dem babies!"

Either you truly believe what you said or you're trolling.

Neither actually. That is why i stated i did not believe in the concept, but rather i was asking a serious question and throwing out a serious scenario, one that if true we might face, and wanted to hear peoples thoughts on the matter.

Either way, you got the responses you deserved.

Your right. I should keep questions and possibilities simple. I realize many people on the Internets brains hurt if they have to think about deep things and scary thoughts. It's easier for them to scream Nazi at the top of there lungs then to talk about a dark future.

At any rate it's late where i am. I'm going to bed. You keep fighting the invisible fight agaisnt people who aren't nazis. Because somewhere out there, someone is having a deep conversation, and no one is screaming nazi bible thumper at them. Intelligent conversation is your enemy it seems.

 

[Yoshemo]

We've shown that its not a choice so what else could it be?

Who has been shown that? Certainly not me. No reputable scientist is going to tell you that homosexuals have no choice but to choose to engage in homosexual acts, even if hormones encourage them to.

Being gay isn't about who you have sex with, its who you're attracted to. I know gay people who never had sex with men but have with women because their religion scared them. Who you're attracted to is not a choice. Many homosexuals have tried to be attracted to women (myself included) and can't change it no matter how hard we try. And the so-called "ex gays" have had studies done on them where they showed them gay and straight porn. They still got around by the gay porn but not by the ones showing the opposite sex.
Acting gay is a choice but being gay is not. I can't change who I'm attracted to. End of story.

 

[Eri]

snip

I said lol at the fact you said something immediately relating to the other person I quoted, who was right next to your post.

snip

 

[kahlzun]

I believe that it is quite possible for both to be true, but I believe that for the majority of people, it's just who they are.

I guess it's like asking if someone was 'born' to be, say, an athlete, or it was their 'choice'.

 

[Palademon]

Because you don't choose your sexuality, the same way you don't choose your beliefs. If you believe something or are something, you just are naturally, there is no choice.

Just to let you know, beliefs are things that we DO have a choice in. If you have a belief in something, then you also have the opportunity to question that belief and make a decision on whether or not you wish to keep it. As a reply to the thread, there wouldn't be much sense choosing to be gay if you had no previous impulse or biological need to do so. Either way, it's something that should be respected as it does no one else any harm.

If you feel like naturally questioning any of your beliefs then you obviously have doubt in that belief.

Because you don't choose your sexuality, the same way you don't choose your beliefs. If you believe something or are something, you just are naturally, there is no choice.

I don't know about choosing whether you are gay or not, but I chose to believe in God. Atheists choose to be atheists, Muslims choose to Islamic, Buddhists choose to be Buddhists.

Beliefs are chosen. They can be forced upon someone, or brainwashed into someone, but after all's said and done, beliefs are chosen for the most part.

I disagree. In regards to religion I think that if you hear about it and it makes sense to you, your mind accepts it. You can choose whether or not to consider yourself part of a religion of belief system, but whether or not you believe in something is not your choice. Based on this choice I could supposedly choose to believe there's a giant pink elephant in my back garden. I know that example is a stupid point.

 

[siddif]

I am gonna take a possibly controversial route and say its neither - hear me out though!

I dont think you can be born gay because as a species it is an ingrained trait to pass our DNA on and survive though it is not an active decision either. Having a mild interest in Biology and Mental development personally i have come to my own conclusion that like most of life it is decided by your upbringing in your first 5 years of life (give or take a couple per person) - psychologists believe most of your personality is decided then whether it be if you are outgoing/shy active/lazy and in this example I believe it covers sexuality or lack of.

Obviously you can make an active decision whether you act on this or not and probability plays a part on if it even happens in your life but this is just my theory.

 

[Scde2]

I could have had a relationship with someone of the opposite sex. But the question is, why would I want to be with someone I am not attracted to physically and emotionally? I'll stick with my boyfriend instead.

Being with someone is a choice, but I just don't get how people think you can "choose" who they are attracted to.

 

[RobfromtheGulag]

I can't see being 'born' with any predetermined preferences. I don't think people really choose it either.

I would think that events that shape the person's life lead them down a certain path.

 

[TWRule]

I could have had a relationship with someone of the opposite sex. But the question is, why would I want to be with someone I am not attracted to physically and emotionally? I'll stick with my boyfriend instead.

Being with someone is a choice, but I just don't get how people think you can "choose" who they are attracted to.

We aren't talking about emotional attraction here, that's a different issue altogether.

However, let me ask everyone taking the biology position a question (I know I'll get a ton of flak for drawing this comparison, but let's get it straight that it is not a moral one):

Would you defend someone who claimed that they were biologically hardwired to be attracted to children (or animals, or anything else you can think of)?

The point I'm trying to make here is that while biology may be a factor, things like aesthetic sense and societal ideas play prominent roles in what we find attractive. You're as attracted to an idea as anything physical.

As a straight male, I know I find the female form attractive, but I also can tell that a large part of that has to do with ideas I was exposed to when growing up. Even though I didn't necessarily think to discriminate against those signals while growing up, merely accepting them as part of who I am; I now have consciousness of them, and can change them if I so chose. I'm not saying it would be an overnight spontaneous thing, or easy to undo my entire conception of what is pleasing to the eye, but it's not impossible. If a person's entire personality can change, then so can this. Ultimately, you must choose to subscribe to some particular set of values, including what you find aesthetically pleasing (even if it's just a matter of choosing to use the same ones you've always had since childhood).

And again, before you crucify me, I'm not implying that anyone should necessarily feel they have to change their sexual orientation. I just don't believe in any insurmountable biological determinant of any sort (besides our flesh-and-blood humanity).

 

[Pyro Paul]

I see a lot of people on both sides arguing if people were born gay or chose to be gay themselves. What I don't see is anyone saying both camps are just as valid as the other. Rarely, other animals beside human have exhibited gay behavior before, clearly showing it can be a rare natural occurrence. But we humans also have free will, meaning you can, indeed, choose to be gay. I'm sure both types of gays exist, they're equally valid. So why does it need to be one or the other?

because it is only one and can't be the other.

you can not be born gay.
Medical science... biology... our very bodies tell us other wise. the urge for Procreation is hardwired into us. the urge to mate, the urge to bore young. it is a medical fact. even in these rare instances where animals show some form of homosexuality, most of them are oft misguided attempts of said animal to continue on with procreation.

being gay means you have a choice.
that you can deny what your body wants and instead focus on what your mind wants.
a choice to forsake biology and do what YOU want.

 

[Pyro Paul]

I could have had a relationship with someone of the opposite sex. But the question is, why would I want to be with someone I am not attracted to physically and emotionally? I'll stick with my boyfriend instead.

Being with someone is a choice, but I just don't get how people think you can "choose" who they are attracted to.

because it is a choice.
your mind, through the years of psychological build up, emotional connections, and personal prefrences, has created this situation in which you believe that you have no choice. but the fact of the matter is that you have a choice, it still remains, it is just that one side has such a heavy argument with it that it is hard to see any other then just it.

just like any other thing which you would do something with out question. it isn't that there is no other choice... your personal values, emotions, morals, and other psychological settings have made it so that you just simply don't think of any other choice.

 

[Kurokami]

I see a lot of people on both sides arguing if people were born gay or chose to be gay themselves. What I don't see is anyone saying both camps are just as valid as the other. Rarely, other animals beside human have exhibited gay behavior before, clearly showing it can be a rare natural occurrence. But we humans also have free will, meaning you can, indeed, choose to be gay. I'm sure both types of gays exist, they're equally valid. So why does it need to be one or the other?

Personally I believe it's a natural thing that's reinforced by the choice to be so once accepted. Of course I don't have much backing for it so what can I say? I don't agree with it being simply a matter of choice, but I certainly don't see myself running to nail a guys head in for saying otherwise. None I've spoken to consider themselves to have had the choice at some point in their life though, most are definitely happy with who they are now though.