Born gay, Chose to be gay, Can't it be both?

[Valksy]

Please do tell how I can make myself find people attractive.

You really think that humans can't do that? The majesty and power of the human mind is something to behold. Here's a start though, try to make yourself attracted to the person, not the gender. Once you begin feeling close to the personality, the sexual relations become simpler. Over time, you'll likely find that gender more attractive as a whole.
.

OK once again. Assuming you are hetero male, the largest demographic here.

Do you see yourself becoming emotionally close to another guy and sufficiently comfortable and at ease with him to suck him off and enjoy it? Honest answer now. If you are exclusively interested in women - what would be the point in subjecting yourself to this kind of experiment anyway?

 

[Tears of Blood]

It can be a choice. It usually isn't, but it can be.

The people who don't understand this are the people who didn't choose, they were born that way, which most of us are.

 

[Cmwissy]

I don't see how it's anything other than common sense and knowledge of the power of suggestion, but this discussion appears to be at an end.

Yes, it's an interesting thought that people could force an attraction, and I'll keep it in mind. I doubt anyone could really force sexual attraction however. I put my faith in studies and evidence when it comes to stuff like this.

Because I could, and I know I could.

Then please do it and prove your point. Excuse my rudeness but it's quite silly for you to say "Well I COULD PROVE IT."

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

I see a lot of people on both sides arguing if people were born gay or chose to be gay themselves. What I don't see is anyone saying both camps are just as valid as the other. Rarely, other animals beside human have exhibited gay behavior before, clearly showing it can be a rare natural occurrence. But we humans also have free will, meaning you can, indeed, choose to be gay. I'm sure both types of gays exist, they're equally valid. So why does it need to be one or the other?

First of all in the entire scope of humanity the majority of people are heterosexual so your argument about other animals is a bit invalid. Also there is such a thing as animal homosexuality.

And no, you cannot chose to be gay. You cannot chose to find a man or a women sexually attractive you are born with the inclination.

But, man does have the free will to perform whatever acts he wishes

Free will means you can choose to do gay acts, but you can't chose to be gay.

Did you even read what I wrote? I said being gay in animals is rare.

No it really isn't, as I said in my post, homosexuality in animals is very well documented.

rare does not mean poorly documented.

Well documented means that it has been cited by numerous sources in numerous species numerous times. So I'm pretty sure that Jiraiya is wrong and Did Not Do the Research [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DidNotDoTheResearch].

 

[Cmwissy]

Even if I did, you wouldn't have proof. In fact, I don't know why you bothered saying that at all.

Hell, I know I'm right, because we're talking about me, and I know me better than anyone else. Who are you to tell me, a stranger, what I am?

Sorry, I just thought it was a bit redundant for you to put that when it was going to be esoteric.

But hey, let's forget about it and listen to these wise words.

Fair enough. I shall respect your opinion and you shall respect mine.

Holy shit, what just happened? We are still on the internet, right?

 

[Seneschal]

Please do tell how I can make myself find people attractive.

You really think that humans can't do that? The majesty and power of the human mind is something to behold. Here's a start though, try to make yourself attracted to the person, not the gender. Once you begin feeling close to the personality, the sexual relations become simpler. Over time, you'll likely find that gender more attractive as a whole.

Of course, each individual could have more or less effective ways; it's up to them.

It's more than possible - the Escapist currently has a 9-page thread about man-crushes where 300 straight guys admit they would "jump some other man's bones", usually some handsome successful smooth public figure. This is only marginally homosexual, they just crave for a closer connection with a person they idolize for their looks and personality, and the attraction isn't based on sex appeal. This just shows that infatuation can occur regardless of gender, but USUALLY occurs only towards one. And in no cases is it conscious.

Just because sexuality can be a bit fluid for most people, and all over the place for a small minority, doesn't mean that homosexuality is a choice. It may be a subconscious compulsion, even implanted, but I doubt it can be rationally chosen.

 

[Valksy]

Because I could, and I know I could.

Then please do it and prove your point. Excuse my rudeness but it's quite silly for you to say "Well I COULD PROVE IT."

Because I am a paranoid soul, maybe best to not assume that the poster is over the age of 16, 18, 21 (or whatever according to your jurisdiction) and encourage them to prove their point =D You know, just in case....

There have been attempts in the past, before it was ruled illegal, to use aversion therapy to change sexual arousal patterns. From wiring bollocks to an electrical surge to administering emetic drugs. It didn't work. And that was in people who sometimes volunteered and expressed a specific will to have such inhumane procedures used on them (of course, some didn't volunteer...but it was considered OK to torture the homos anyway...)

 

[TheLaofKazi]

The idea of choosing to be gay is kind of... absurd. It's not like someone is going to try really hard for second and go "annnnnnnnddd I like guys now." Sure, someone may consciously decide to recognize that they are gay or otherwise, or choose to engage in a particular sexual activity or experiment, but actually choosing to change your sexual preference is just as ridiculous as those religious programs that try to "cure" them.

But I don't think one's sexuality isn't entirely determined entirely by genetics either. Sexuality is very complex and symbolic. Social and environmental factors can influence it as well. I think we need to move on from this very rigid idea of what sexuality is, where everybody is divided into either three camps: Heterosexual, homosexual, and bisexual. Sexuality isn't that simple, and the ways it is formed certain aren't that simple as well.

 

[loc978]

Think of genetic gayness as a 2-dimensional slider bar. Only the end 10% of each side are "completely gay" or "completely straight". For that 20% of the population, there is no choice. For the rest, there is.

Unpopular, uncomfortable view... but it's closest to what we currently know about the subject.

That sounds like a nonsense thought supported by a nonsense statistic.

Got some facts to back it up?

Honestly no, it's from a study I looked up at a library a couple years ago for a sociology class. I really don't remember what the publication was.
...I probably shouldn't have spoken up, really.

 

[Cmwissy]

the attraction isn't based on sex appeal.

Technically it IS both. people being born gay and the other in which a person chooses to be gay. I read a story of a man who was falsely accused of rape after he had sex with his girlfriend because she didn't want to be viewed as a slut. After that, he turned to men because "men don't falsely accuse each other of rape". So both paths ARE possible. Nothing is EVER 100% in life.

Being homosexual isn't having sex with men. I could have sex with a man and still be heterosexual. It's all to due with the sexual attraction. (Grab your dictionaries.)


Although Seneschal, the stuff you posted I didn't quote was quite interesting, it's amazing what people will do to be close to their idol.

Well, what orientation are you? You honestly think if you met someone of the opposite attracted, formed a close bond, then they told you they were gay/straight and attracted to you, you COULDN'T (not wouldn't) begin to feel physicaly attraction through actions (if they took place)?

I could form a close bond, sure. But it would never be sexual attraction. I don't get an erection when I see a penis. Even if I had sex with the guy I would I guess only do it for pleasure or whatever. It would not be because he makes my knees quiver or heart ache. I feel different emotions when I see a naked female and a naked male. Even if I admired the man, I would only feel intelectually attracted to him.

 

[Sporky111]

Rarely, other animals beside human have exhibited gay behavior before...

I'm just going to correct you right there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals

Here's an interesting excerpt in case of TL;DR

The Amazon River dolphin or boto has been reported to form up in bands of 3-5 individuals enjoying group sex. The groups usually comprise young males and sometimes one or two females. Sex is performed in non-reproductive ways, using snout, flippers and general rubbing, without regards to gender. They will sometimes perform homosexual penetration of the blowhole, a hole homologous with the nostril of other mammals, making this the only known example of nasal sex in the animal kingdom. The males will sometimes also perform sex with tucuxi males, a small porpoise.

Dolphins have kinky, gay orgies. And apparently the species with the highest percentage of homosexuality in the animal kingdom is the Fruit Bat. So it's definitely not an exclusively human thing, the scientific community just seems largely reluctant to admit it.

Now all that aside, I know that sexuality is part of your genes and not something you can change. However, I'm also of the opinion that people who are 100% gay or 100% straight are the smallest demographic out there. Even if they won't say they're bisexual, most guys will have a "man crush" on certain members of their own sex. Even if it's just one or two individuals out there. And college is definitely notorious for the "every girl is bisexual" thing. While I know it's not true, I'm sure it didn't spring entirely from the minds of horny guys looking for girl x girl action.

I also think that there is some element of choice. People can experiment without feeling the need to change whatever label is applied to them. But don't take that to mean it's a choice to be gay. Surely, with all the ignorance and hatred out there toward the LGBT community, why would anyone choose to live that way.

Now, I happen to be a gay man. But, for a long time I thought I was bisexual. Why? Because I still think some women are hot. I still like breasts. I'm sure I could have an emotional relationship with a woman, and if I met someone I loved I don't think I would care what gender they are. But when it comes to the thought of having sex with a woman, I get turned off. Now you can take that however you like, but I don't identify as bisexual anymore. I don't think I should need to. I'm sure there are plenty of straight girls out there who fooled around with other girls at some point. I'm sure there are straight guys who have fooled around with guys, or been attracted to other guys.

To the point: yeah, why can't it be both? Better yet, why can't we just live our lives and not have to worry so much about how other people live them, or worry about what other people think of us?

 

[Cmwissy]

You're very absolute with your mind, aren't you? You really think you can't change yourself, how you think, or how you see the world.

I don't have the time to prove your point. Nor has their ever been a scientific study that can prove your point. I'm not being absolute or dogmatic, I'm being rational with the evidence provided to me.

Again, I don't know why you're trying to continue this discussion.

I'm replying to your points - Is that odd?

 

[ZephrC]

Please do tell how I can make myself find people attractive.

You really think that humans can't do that? The majesty and power of the human mind is something to behold. Here's a start though, try to make yourself attracted to the person, not the gender. Once you begin feeling close to the personality, the sexual relations become simpler. Over time, you'll likely find that gender more attractive as a whole.

You know I've actually tried that? It didn't work. See, there's this whole spectrum of both psychological and biological reactions. I personally am simply incapable of finding anyone with a penis sexually attractive. I've been all in favor of gay rights since before I even knew any (out of the closet) gay people, and since I've gotten to know a bunch, several of which are quite awesome people, that's only gotten stronger. I will never, ever want to have sex with a guy though. I don't know why, my brain says there's nothing wrong with it and it would probably be really great, but my body simply says no.

I think that's moderately uncommon. Most people seem to be bisexual to at least some degree from my observations, but some of us don't get a real choice. I'd love to be bisexual. It's more options, and while women are great people I find they tend to be very frustrating to try to maintain relationships with. To the point that I've pretty much given up on having sex ever again. Having the ability to play for the other side, as it were, would be nothing but a good thing, and I personally see nothing wrong with it. I know in particular a couple guys who I would gladly go gay for. Except that penises are the biggest turn off ever.

I agree with you that the capacity of the human mind, especially its capacity to change itself, is vastly underrated. It is not, however, unlimited. Some things simply cannot be done.

 

[Valksy]

Now, I happen to be a gay man. But, for a long time I thought I was bisexual. Why? Because I still think some women are hot. I still like breasts.

Hi. Lesbian here {{secret handshake}}

I have often wondered about the boob thing with gay guys. Now I don't assume that you can speak for all gay blokes, I am well aware of how much of a nonsense that is, but do you have an opinion on why some (not all) gay guys are so fascinated with breasts? I must have been groped 1000 times by guys I know to be as gay as hell and plenty of my lesbian buddies report the same sort of thing. My reaction has been anything from laughing my ass off, to grabbing junk (through trousers) in retaliation to the occasional face slap. What IS that about?