Born gay, Chose to be gay, Can't it be both?

[holy_secret]

Well actually I realized last year that seducing a man is easier than to seducing a needy attention craving woman. So yeah, I guess my hormones are telling me to make a choice; get laid easily or work your ass off to get laid.

I choose easy laid-getting ^^
Is it just me?

 

[Kagim]

Your not attracted to gender. Your attracted to attributes. Simply because you happen to prefer characteristics more common to your own sex does not mean there is simply no god damn possibility of you ever meeting someone. It just means it is unlikely.

This is called pansexuality - favouring characteristics that are separate of gender aka; gender-blind. I do not think this is very common. I can tell you, with utmost certainty, that I do not like men for characteristics that I would also like women for. Gender is incredibly important - it is, for most people (I gather), the defining attribute and so it should be - women produce the offspring.

The labels for sexuality are apt, I can at least see from my own experience and from chats around the world. They're not there to simply and easily group people, they're not pointless. They're there, because that's what people under the banner really are. Men attracted to men. Women to women. Yes - It 'could' change down the line, just like it 'couldn't.' - tastes evolve. These labels aren't based on possibilities, though, but current certainties.

We disagree on this fundamentally. So there really isn't much to discuss here.

I could always argue that men merely carry more turn off for you then turn ons that even though some men may have characteristics you normally like the average man still is unappealing to you.

Please read in the very quote you made "it just means it is unlikely.'

Perhaps i should have said 'very' or 'highly' or 'incredibly' to get my point across further.

So no, i do not think the gender labels are appropriate. As i think there are far, far, far more variables and factors at play. While for some people it might be that simple, but to simply file everyone who generally likes there own gender as 'gay' and thus totally and entirely capable of finding members of the opposite sex attractive impossible is foolish.

Also, am I the only one who has notices a very simple way of proving that you're 'born that way'? Erections.

Do you choose to get erections? No. They're natural, you get them when you're attracted to someone.

When a woman is raped there body will generally go through the same reflexes, even orgasm. Does that mean the women liked being raped?

When a man has something forcefully shoved up there ass they will have an erection. It doesn't matter if it is the most beautiful person in the world or an 85 year old doctor they will have an erection, even orgasm as well.

What you just said? is the reason why male rape cases still don't get the attention and respect they deserve. "Oh! The man got an erection! That means he liked it! Not rape!"

It's bullshit.

I was referring more to the erection one might get when they see somebody they find attractive.

Thanks for taking it out of context, though.

How did i take it out of context.

Your point is "Erections are natural! Therefor if you get one that means you are attracted to what gave you it!"

So i pointed out you get erections even when getting raped.

That was not out of context. If you get erection naturally when you encounter things you like why is it suddenly different in a rape situation?

Is it because it invalidates your point otherwise?

 

[CaptainKoala]

Its a preference. Thats like saying that my favorite color is green because I was born that way.
Its not in your genes, so its a preference.

If you're claiming "proof", it's not taken out of context. Hell, what about RBS?

I believe I was quite obviously talking about attraction, rather than rape. This being a thread about attraction, after all.

Wait, why was I quoted here?

 

[Valksy]

The reason this argument takes on the color is does is because religious fundamentalists started it, using "it's a sinful choice" to persecute people. In reaction to that, gay rights activists have decided they're going to out-stupid the religious fundamentalists by saying "it's 100% inborn".

Anyone who espouses either viewpoint is pushing an agenda, fucking retarded, or both.

Citation please. Thrill and astonish me with your insight. Come along now, you clearly know the answer and have links to peer-reviewed studies that illustrate your point of view.

No?

Didn't think so.

Note - pointing out the difference between declarative statements and opinions.

Thanks for editing my post to minimize my point. Reported.

Edit - Also, a opinions are, by nature declarative. In fact, all statements are declarative. That's what makes them statements. Otherwise, they would be questions or commands.

If you're saying that my view that it's a complex association of factors is an opinion, I can back that up plenty. I can produce peer-reviewed articles that attest to environmental factors' influence on orientation, and I can cite peer-reviewed articles that focus on monozygotic and heterozygotic twins' orientations to put forth genetic and intrauterine factors as potentially causative.

But you didn't even include that portion of my argument. You just quoted the part where I made known my ditaste for both extremes.

No no no. You are stating a specific point that to take one side or the other is either "retarded or serves only to promote an agenda".

I was also expressing a difference between:

"I think OpinionXX"

and

"XX is the truth, full stop."

Do you honestly not see the difference?

And truncating a message, to emphasis a specific point (or indeed, to simply flag to another escapist user to hope to attract their attention back to a thread) is quite common. Some people simply quote and replace entire text with I usually prefer not to do so.

Also - citations if you please since you have them, I would be interested to see.

 

[Guinasso]

this always confused me so what if tis a chose just tolorat them enyway. we tolorat muslims, jowish people, and christans (most of use enyway)and thats a chose. its just rediculis.

 

[k3v1n]

not sure how can you choose to be gay, you can't force yourself to like something you don't or vice versa

 

[Cmwissy]

Fixed for you

I believe I was quite obviously talking about attraction, rather than rape. This being a thread about attraction, after all.

But it doesn't matter what you were talking about, if you say erections prove attractions then the fact that erections occur outside of attraction means that your proof in invalid.

Fine, let me rephrase my point.

If a man is walking down the street and sees a woman he just for some reason finds attractive and just suddenly gets an erection without choice, yet he can see loads of different men and never get an erection that must mean said man must have a bias towards the female gender without his choice. .

Better?

Well yes, you can. You severely underestimate the power of the human mind.

I can have sex with men quite easily, that doesn't make me gay.

Homosexual.
#sexually attracted to members of your own sex

Unless ofcourse you are referring to the type of person who somehow psychologically forces themselves to find people attractive, which I've always heard of, but never seen.

 

[Valksy]

Its a preference. Thats like saying that my favorite color is green because I was born that way.
Its not in your genes, so its a preference.

OK. So let's assume that you area straight bloke, since that is the largest demographic here.


So when did you decide that you preferred women? Did you sit down and have a long conversation with yourself? Maybe dick...maybe pussy...? Which one do I prefer?

 

[Cmwissy]

Fine, let me rephrase my point.

If a man is walking down the street and sees a woman he finds attractive and just suddenly gets an erection without choice, yet he can see loads of different men and never get an erection that must mean said man must have a bias towards the female gender without his choice. .

Better?

Yes. But how this "proves" you can't choose to make yourself attracted to the same sex still isn't clear. Sure he's got a natural bias, but that doesn't mean he can't change it.

Please do tell how I can make myself find people attractive.

By the same token, did you sit down and rationally weigh up all the colours to pick your favourite, or did you just find one more appealing due to things like experience and envorinment?

Its a preference. Thats like saying that my favorite color is green because I was born that way.
Its not in your genes, so its a preference.

Funnily enough I believe a study was formed with young children and chimpanzees a few years back. Male chimpanzees and babies with no knowledge of toys or colour would choose fire trucks for toys and the colour red more than anything else.

Sometimes these things can be genetic.

 

[Timmaaaah]

I don't mind people that are born gay, or even those who just developed an attraction to the same sex, but the fake idiots who suddenly adopt camp characteristics and basically CHOOSE to be gay just annoy me. I know it's their choice, but sexual orientation isn't just something you can change at will. Anybody who is truly gay or lesbian isn't that way because of choice.

What does confuse me is when somebody has obviously been straight and somehow switched to not liking the opposite sex at all and then claiming to be gay/lesbian. They obviously can have romantic feelings towards the opposite sex, so they are bisexual. I hate when people over complicate it. If you CAN be attracted to both sexes, you're bisexual. If you CAN'T be attracted to the opposite sex you're homosexual. If you CAN'T be attracted to the same sex, you're straight. Simple as that. The identity crisis is just caused by society's stigma against gay people. Everyone says they're for gay rights, but they're still seperated. The churches have services for gays and lesbians, but they shouldn't have ones SPECIFICALLY for them, because it SHOULDN'T MATTER who you're attracted to. It's the same with marriage. They call it a civil union when it's a same sex couple, when technically any marriage outside the church is technically a civil union. Holy matrimony. It pisses me off, because what about the same sex couples that are religious? They should be able to get married "in the eyes of god" in the same way heterosexual couples are.

 

[Dana22]

Did you even read what I wrote? I said being gay in animals is rare.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_animals

A new review made in 2009 of existing research showed that same-sex behavior is a nearly universal phenomenon in the animal kingdom, common across species.

Universal doesn't change the rarity.

On the contrary. Since we operate on much smaller sample then in case of humans, yet we have found out that same-sex behavior is common in whole animal kingdom, we can safely assume that percentage of "homosexuals" vs "straight" in other species, will be similar to homo sapiens.

 

[Xanadu84]

There is always a choice in regards to if you want to ACT on your sexual desires. The question is generally if an individual has an inborn inclination towards a sexuality, or not. If there is no inclination, then it is a choice. If there is an inclination, they you are born with it. In this situation, one precludes the other as a matter of logical neccesity. As in, Either A or B, if A then not B, if B then not A.

 

[GLo Jones]

I've never understood the whole 'choice' option. It makes no sense, and it looks like people here are misusing/misinterpreting it.

The actual discussion here should be nature/nurture.

 

[The Lunatic]

I never understood why people argue for either so feverishly.

I'm gay, and I honestly believe it's a mix of nature and nurture.

 

[Cmwissy]

Please do tell how I can make myself find people attractive.

You really think that humans can't do that? The majesty and power of the human mind is something to behold. Here's a start though, try to make yourself attracted to the person, not the gender. Once you begin feeling close to the personality, the sexual relations become simpler. Over time, you'll likely find that gender more attractive as a whole.

Of course, each individual could have more or less effective ways; it's up to them.

I'm afraid I'm not going to put any faith in your point until you can come up with some evidence or studies to do with people forcing attraction.