Bringing a Bikini to a swordfight (Girls and games)

[migo]

Yep, but, Alyx Vance also proves that the stereotype that men are slobbering lechers for big tits is bullshit.

Not really. That stereotype is certainly untrue (though has merit) but it is not Vance who disproves it.

There is no character out there for whom there is as much consensus of attractiveness, liking and desirability as Alyx Vance. That means Valve designed her according to the characteristics most men want in a woman. She damn well disproves it.

 

[Paragon Fury]

Yep, but, Alyx Vance also proves that the stereotype that men are slobbering lechers for big tits is bullshit.

Not really. That stereotype is certainly untrue (though has merit) but it is not Vance who disproves it.

There is no character out there for whom there is as much consensus of attractiveness, liking and desirability as Alyx Vance. That means Valve designed her according to the characteristics most men want in a woman. She damn well disproves it.

Except that its an illusion.

They just replaced outward sexual traits with inner personality issues.

Alyx Vance is almost completely defenseless, she almost always makes the Gordan's life harder, rarely ever has a good idea, can't do much on her own, and the only reason Gordan listens to her is because HE CAN'T FUCKING SAY NO!

Also, the only reason she isn't dead is because the G-Man wants her around so he can better mind-fuck people.

Subtract Gordan Freeman from the equation, and Vance doesn't become much more than a quivering blob waiting to be saved.

Oh wait.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

Good examples of realistic women in gaming: Alyx Vance

No.

Vance may not be any kind of Lara Croft, but she is still overly sexualised. Just presented in a different way- more subtle, a 'girl-next-door' sexual.

Besides which, this is all really, really old news, a topic of debate that has been absolutely done to death.

If you're going to consider Alyx overly sexualized then it seems like over sexualization is characterized by just being attractive or having likeable traits. People prefer to see attractive characters in games, be it male or female so I doubt that will ever change. I think as long as a character isn't just purely used as eye candy it's alright. Or having ridiculous proportions. That bugs the hell out of me.

 

[squid5580]

I swear to christfuck I am going to snap the next time I read "sex sells" when this topic comes up. Was Soul Calibur a popular fighting game because of Ivy's tits? No it was a good selling game because it is a good fuckin game. I am so sick and fucking tired of being classed as some pervert because developers understand the fundamental basics of their audience. We want to see things that are pleasing to the eye. Just like when we watch a movie or watch tv. So until every box cover is a bare of huge jiggly boobs you can take that sex sells and shove it up your ass. Because most of the time we aren't going to know about the game's awesome breast physics until WE BUY THE DAMN GAME AND PLAY IT.

That's because I'm guessing your a hetrosexual male. Now imagine all videogames star sparkly vampires, and a lot of the game has characters stripping for no reason other than to show their 6-pack. It still may be a good game but would you want to buy it, especially if you only looked at the cover and back? Even if you would now think of all your friends, especially if some are new to the medium.

Do you not play video games? Have you not seen male protagonists? We have been exposed to ripped shirtless musclebound men forever. Sure they may not stop and strip (but I haven't seen many games that allow the women to do that either although there is some yes I know). But that is ok. Having the "perfect" male body is a non issue. No one cares that I will never be a hulk like Marcus. But everyone is supposed to care that Jill next door will never be built like Ivy? I believe that is called a double standard.

This one is not directed at you. I gotta say if you are distracted by Miranda's overly sexualized character maybe it isn't the industry that needs to do some growin up. At the end of the day I am sure most developers want to make a character they find attractive. People are going to spend hours possibly days lookin at these characters. Why not make them attractive as they possibly can?

 

[migo]

There is no character out there for whom there is as much consensus of attractiveness, liking and desirability as Alyx Vance. That means Valve designed her according to the characteristics most men want in a woman. She damn well disproves it.

Milla Jovovich would like to have a word with you.

That makes no sense. She's not a video game character.

Yep, but, Alyx Vance also proves that the stereotype that men are slobbering lechers for big tits is bullshit.

Not really. That stereotype is certainly untrue (though has merit) but it is not Vance who disproves it.

There is no character out there for whom there is as much consensus of attractiveness, liking and desirability as Alyx Vance. That means Valve designed her according to the characteristics most men want in a woman. She damn well disproves it.

Except that its an illusion.

They just replaced outward sexual traits with inner personality issues.

Alyx Vance is almost completely defenseless, she almost always makes the Gordan's life harder, rarely ever has a good idea, can't do much on her own, and the only reason Gordan listens to her is because HE CAN'T FUCKING SAY NO!

Also, the only reason she isn't dead is because the G-Man wants her around so he can better mind-fuck people.

Subtract Gordan Freeman from the equation, and Vance doesn't become much more than a quivering blob waiting to be saved.

Oh wait.

Nonetheless, what men go for obviously isn't Lara Croft.

 

[JUMBO PALACE]

To be honest I'm pretty tired of the rash of threads like this lately. I couldn't care less about the size of boobs in my games.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

I found some of he comments a little annoying though (quote "...no one plays as female shepard" 20% of gamers dosn't count as no-one genius...)

You discovered hyperbole! 20% is indeed greater than 0%, but then four times more people played as a male shepard than a female. A simple way to encapsulate such a staggering inequality is to resort to an extreme (and generally untrue in the literal sense) statement. Hyperbole is considered a valid rhetorical technique so I see no problem. It's opposite, understatement, unfortunately requires that the audience be knowledgeable about the subject in order to understand that it was an understatement. You could say "sure, there were a few more instances of people playing as male Shepards versus female" but unless I know what the statistics were this statement would fail to highlight the vast difference between the two.

Personally, I hate when a female protagonist is scantily clad in a sword fight. It isn't because I deplore the objectification of women or anything like that, but rather that I cannot look at such an example without instantly thinking of all the defensive flaws inherent. Even games set in modern or future times seem to think that body armor ought to accent the female form. The modern settings are the most absurd given that modern body armor (especially in use by a standardized military force) is unisex and will entirely conceal one's bust.

 

[mirasiel]

I'm a little confused as to what constitutes a 'sexualised' character for most people, since apparently alyx vance is one apparently.

I mean I can clearly see how much of the cast of soul calibur (and I do mean much, IE men included) can be labelled as such but it just seems that now any female character who is considered to be attractive by (fe)males is considered to be sexualised, Im sorry but you could stick Ivy (soul calibur) or Morrigan (Dragon age) in a fucking burkha and they probably still be found attractive by (fe)males.

What is it that people want on this subject?

 

[Vault101]

I'm a little confused as to what constitutes a 'sexualised' character for most people, since apparently alyx vance is one apparently.

I mean I can clearly see how much of the cast of soul calibur (and I do mean much, IE men included) can be labelled as such but it just seems that now any female character who is considered to be attractive by (fe)males is considered to be sexualised, Im sorry but you could stick Ivy (soul calibur) or Morrigan (Dragon age) in a fucking burkha and they probably still be found attractive by (fe)males.

What is it that people want on this subject?

I think theres a difference between a charachter that is kinda sexulised but it fits in with the story (for example morrigan from dragon age and miranda from ME2, morrigan is like that becuase its her charachter and she was raised outside society, Miranda was genetically engineerd to be "perfect" and it causes her alot of angst)

but then there are situations where you KNOW they are doing it for fanservice, as in the issue with wearign a bikini during a swordfight, I'm a chick and its not the sexualisation that bothers me as much as SHE IS GOING TO GET STABBED DUH!!! its just impractical and you know theyre doing it because of boobs

Alyx vance is not sexualised at all, but people love her because shes just so damn likable

 

[Saint of M]

I don't mind the occasional over sexualized character, but the moment you have them dime a dozen, or throughout a game the novelty wheres off, and kit becomes meh. Boobs should never be marketed in a way where we get a big "meh" from them, and that is what we've got for the longest time now.

As for a good list of sexualized male characters in gaming, start with a number from the FF franchise, go through a a good chunk of the characters from the Tekken Franchise, and end with Metal Gear Solid Two and Raiden (do I need to say more?).

 

[mirasiel]

but then there are situations where you KNOW they are doing it for fanservice, as in the issue with wearign a bikini during a swordfight, I'm a chick and its not the sexualisation that bothers me as much as SHE IS GOING TO GET STABBED DUH!!! its just impractical and you know theyre doing it because of boobs

Whats wrong with fan-service? I mean it does seem to cut both ways now but video games are fantasy escapism.

My problem as it were, comes from the fact that the definition of sexualised seems to be getting broader and broader, including things I dont see as sexualised. Am I becoming more jaded about it or are people just getting an inch and taking a mile?

 

[Vault101]

but then there are situations where you KNOW they are doing it for fanservice, as in the issue with wearign a bikini during a swordfight, I'm a chick and its not the sexualisation that bothers me as much as SHE IS GOING TO GET STABBED DUH!!! its just impractical and you know theyre doing it because of boobs

Whats wrong with fan-service? I mean it does seem to cut both ways now but video games are fantasy escapism.

My problem as it were, comes from the fact that the definition of sexualised seems to be getting broader and broader, including things I dont see as sexualised. Am I becoming more jaded about it or are people just getting an inch and taking a mile?

well I think the problem peole have here is that good well rounded female charachters (and even more so female PC's) are harder to find than shallow (and sometimes not shallow) charachters that are over sexualised, fan service might be all well and good but it seems the developers think a female charahcter can't exist without it

now we all know there are exceptions to that, Like Alyx Vance or female commander shepard and yes game charachrts both female and male are good looking but there is a difference between being good looking and over sexualised, plus its not just sexualisation but also a female charachrts role...you know needing to be saved or being really really annoying

heres somthign else Arguably you can find strong female player charachters in RPG's such as fallout ,Dragon age and mass effect, you know whats interesting about those? the PC can be ether gender, shows that mabye being hung up on gender instead of the actual charachter is half the problem

 

[Saint of M]

but then there are situations where you KNOW they are doing it for fanservice, as in the issue with wearign a bikini during a swordfight, I'm a chick and its not the sexualisation that bothers me as much as SHE IS GOING TO GET STABBED DUH!!! its just impractical and you know theyre doing it because of boobs

Whats wrong with fan-service? I mean it does seem to cut both ways now but video games are fantasy escapism.

My problem as it were, comes from the fact that the definition of sexualised seems to be getting broader and broader, including things I dont see as sexualised. Am I becoming more jaded about it or are people just getting an inch and taking a mile?

well I think the problem peole have here is that good well rounded female charachters (and even more so female PC's) are harder to find than shallow (and sometimes not shallow) charachters that are over sexualised, fan service might be all well and good but it seems the developers think a female charahcter can't exist without it

now we all know there are exceptions to that, Like Alyx Vance or female commander shepard and yes game charachrts both female and male are good looking but there is a difference between being good looking and over sexualised, plus its not just sexualisation but also a female charachrts role...you know needing to be saved or being really really annoying

heres somthign else Arguably you can find strong female player charachters in RPG's such as fallout ,Dragon age and mass effect, you know whats interesting about those? the PC can be ether gender, shows that mabye being hung up on gender instead of the actual charachter is half the problem

To add to that is fan service is a type of eye candy, and like candy doesn't have much nutritional value, neither does this. Can it be necessary? Yes, and there would be moments in all kinds of arts and entertainment that would be missing without it.

Unfortunetley, as seen with a lot of the over-sexualized games like the "Guy Game" or Dead or Alive, we don't get much out of them. Yes the eye candy is appreciated until the 13th beauty then we get jaded a little bit.

Plus its an easy cop out to doing actual work. You show boobs the easily stimulated will be impressed to keep playing.

 

[moretimethansense]

First "non sexualized female charecters"?
What does that even mean?
If it means they are good charecters, that aren't hyper sexualized I can come up with about twenty right now.
If they mean female charecters that aren't (traditionally) sexy, why should I bother?

Most male charecters are portrayed as being hyper attractive as well, you [could make an arguement that there are more unsexy males than females, but how is this any different that any other medium?

Incedently

1. Kreia - KotOR
2. Shale - DA:O
3. "Big" Mama Tua(?) Ready 2 Rumble
4. The Spitter - L4D2
5. Areie - BG2 (Her pic looks emaciated AND she is described as having rather ugly scars on her back)
6. Lady Devena - Primal
7. Jujudormah - Onimusha 2
8. Amaterasu - Okami

There, eight charecters that wouldn't be conisidered "traditionaly" attractive, I even restriced myself to one per game, no childeren and even to them actually having to have a body, I'm sure there are more but that's all I can think of right now.

If you just want not hyper sexualized I could come up with several dozen, especcially if I removed my restriction.

 

[Rusty Bucket]

Nonetheless, what men go for obviously isn't Lara Croft.

Stick Croft and Vance in a room together and I guarantee you most men will head straight for croft. Not only is she more attractive than Vance, she's also not useless. Vance is incapable of doing anything on her own, all she ever does is get in your way and then crack jokes about you 'taking the scenic route' when you fall through a hole in the floor for the tenth fucking time.

 

[mirasiel]

heres somthign else Arguably you can find strong female player charachters in RPG's such as fallout ,Dragon age and mass effect, you know whats interesting about those? the PC can be ether gender, shows that mabye being hung up on gender instead of the actual charachter is half the problem

funny that you should mention RPG's I did initially make up a '10 non-sexualised females' list but they were all rpg chars and from a similar stable of studios too


I suppose the fact that I mainly play rpg's and strategy games limits my choice right enough