Bringing a Bikini to a swordfight (Girls and games)

[Sarahcidal]

that is a pretty great article it makes some excellent points
as a girl gamer it's never bothered me in the least to see half dressed useless female characters.. not sure why it doesnt bother me, but it doesnt.
I suppose ive always just accepted it as part of the industry lol ..which is a little sad now that i think about it.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

You're just determined to make Alyx Vance the same kind of ***** that make Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball popular, aren't you? I've seen a few posts like this, do you have a problem with a likeable female character? And have you played through Episodes 1 and 2? She does shoot and kill enemies, though most of the time you'r too busy killing some to notice, and she does have some good ideas - like using a sniper rifle to defend you while you're on your way to a car.

And just what the hell is wrong with an attractive personality? Nothing. There's more to a girl than sex, and her personality is, you know, what makes a girl more than a pair of breasts.

Ms. Vance is not on the same level as DOA, as she is not overtly sexualized. No, Alyx Vance is done with far more finesse in that she is subtly sexualized. She's the girl next door, not catwalk-model gorgeous or dressed in an outfit that would make a stripper blush, who's always around for Gordon. Yet, she exhibits traditional feminine traits as described earlier. Alyx Vance is easy to like for a male audience because she isn't overly stereotyped and she seems rather normal. But not *too* normal, in the end she still adheres to the principles of traditional femininity. I don't hate her as a character, not by a longshot. But to say she's an outstanding example of equality in computer games is taking it too far.

Not when she's facing off against characters like Elena and Claire from Uncharted. Both whom turn out to often have more control over the situation than the protagonist Nathan Drake has. She could also be compared to Lucy in Assassin's Creed who turns out to be something of a badass normal.

Or simply just: Kreia. I dare say that Kreia is without a doubt the best representation of a female character in any video game to date. Kreia is an old woman (and how many old women get important roles in computer games?) who manages to be both a mentor, an interesting party member and the games antagonist all the while without ever seeming like she needs a strong man in her life to help her out.

Because that is the eventual test of any female game character (that isn't oversexualized), how much they rely on male characters to get them out of trouble or to get things done for them. As long as the character does like Alyx and stands next to the door waiting for Gordon to open it, then they are still being relegated to the traditional female role of passivity. Admitedly it is a problem intrinsically linked to gameplay, but it is not impossible to overcome.

 

[Fr]anc[is]

I certainly would not have listened to Miranda any more if she were less sexy. She is still a *****. She is always unpleasant and bossy, and I can't take her moments of kindness seriously, because I know that in five minutes she's going to be groaning about something and badmouthing someone. There isn't even any growth in her romance, it's just "BEWBS". Jack is more tolerable to me, and more human. Maybe it's just me but I can stand her extremely overzealous badassery way more than Miranda's ice queen act.

 

[HotPinkCrayola]

I disagree with the unrealistic body types of characters giving unrealistic expectations of women IRL. That argument applies to air brushed images of models because we know them to be real people, whereas I think we're all intelligent enough to know that however good the graphics are, game girls are essentailly cartoons.

It's the clothing that annoys me. The ridiculous outfits of Ivy, Cammy (sp) (infact most girls in fighting games!) look to have had no care and effort put into their design and are just hideously unprotected boobs draped in cloth or triangles of lycra. Compare them to JRPG girls (consider Final Fantasy, Eternal Sonata, Lost Oddysey etc) where they're the same or similar body type, but the clothing is so beautiful or at least visually interesting that even slutty looking characters become more likable because they look like someone gave a crap about something other than how nice their arse looks when the camera points at it.

Also, please can be have some voice actors who sound like normal people and not whiney / whispy / overly throaty shoot-yourself-rather-than-listen-to-them annoyances. And some writing that reflects the same.

 

[Nimcha]

I hardly agree with any of the points made in that article really. Especially near the end when the writer states he thinks girls feel 'inadequate' compared to the female character they play. I find that ridiculous, when compared to male gamers. Almost none of them are refrigirator-sized blocks of muscle with big beards, (implied) long penises and low gritty voices like 80% of todays protagonists. Yet almost no gamer feels inadequate when playing them.

I also strongly disagree with his point on Miranda, her sexualization is actually properly explained in the game.

This article feels patronizing to me and I feel these sort of articles are the last thing the female gamer needs. They should just be called 'gamers' in stead.

 

[Ranchcroutons]

I hate when gaming journalist all hop on a bandwagon and I have to read the same article like 5 times. "Oh no! Women are over sexualized in gaming and its because sex sells to the male market." Its something that everyone always figured out for themselves back in the original Tomb Raider days. It may suck but things are getting better. I swear if I have to hear one more person say "I struggle to come up with more than 5 strong women in gaming" I'm going to have a stroke.

 

[Chairman Miaow]

Almost everybody I have spoken to bar me played as a female shepherd. most of them blamed male shepherd's voice acting.

 

[PunkRex]

Most people know this stuff by now but it was nicely presented.

I cant agree with the Miranda argument though, she was over sexualised for a reason, a genetically enhanced, programed to be super smart and take orders kind of reason and I never really agreed with this out dated idea that a girl could not be hot and interesting. Most non-grizzled male characters tend to be nice to look at (I know that most resemble bears these days) but I dont care, if a guys hot, WORK IT BROTHER. Still I also know its the developers in general who are responsible for this way of thinking so...... I think the developers and audience need to think abit more and this includes people who fight so hard for equality in games.

 

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

Almost everybody I have spoken to bar me played as a female shepherd. most of them blamed male shepherd's voice acting.

yeah... it's just that better. Plus in Mass Effect 1 when you punch the reporter.. or Mendel (scientist in the beginning). The few key moments like that can just sell it.

Though what they really need to do is get some female characters that act human. Though even if they do this - people will find problems with them.

 

[PunkRex]

but then there are situations where you KNOW they are doing it for fanservice, as in the issue with wearign a bikini during a swordfight, I'm a chick and its not the sexualisation that bothers me as much as SHE IS GOING TO GET STABBED DUH!!! its just impractical and you know theyre doing it because of boobs

Whats wrong with fan-service? I mean it does seem to cut both ways now but video games are fantasy escapism.

My problem as it were, comes from the fact that the definition of sexualised seems to be getting broader and broader, including things I dont see as sexualised. Am I becoming more jaded about it or are people just getting an inch and taking a mile?

well I think the problem peole have here is that good well rounded female charachters (and even more so female PC's) are harder to find than shallow (and sometimes not shallow) charachters that are over sexualised, fan service might be all well and good but it seems the developers think a female charahcter can't exist without it

now we all know there are exceptions to that, Like Alyx Vance or female commander shepard and yes game charachrts both female and male are good looking but there is a difference between being good looking and over sexualised, plus its not just sexualisation but also a female charachrts role...you know needing to be saved or being really really annoying

heres somthign else Arguably you can find strong female player charachters in RPG's such as fallout ,Dragon age and mass effect, you know whats interesting about those? the PC can be ether gender, shows that mabye being hung up on gender instead of the actual charachter is half the problem

To add to that is fan service is a type of eye candy, and like candy doesn't have much nutritional value, neither does this. Can it be necessary? Yes, and there would be moments in all kinds of arts and entertainment that would be missing without it.

Unfortunetley, as seen with a lot of the over-sexualized games like the "Guy Game" or Dead or Alive, we don't get much out of them. Yes the eye candy is appreciated until the 13th beauty then we get jaded a little bit.

Plus its an easy cop out to doing actual work. You show boobs the easily stimulated will be impressed to keep playing.

I actually really like how Fan-service can be used in games. My favourite game of all time was a perfect example of this. In the Timesplitters series almost 70% of the characters were sexualised in some way (and those who arnt are a floating school of fish or a dancing dinosaur), including Cortez, the protangonist who was Mr.Universe (theres a portrait of him in the 3rd game with a crown and leopard skin tong). Its a great example of how fan-service can be used in the very style of a game.

The problem is most developers do it BADLY, letting it get in the way of character and story development and the very basic formula behind a game. Like you all said, bringing a bikini to a fight for no other reason then "It makes her look hotter" is bloody stupid. If it had a reason like "shes a barbarian and none of them wear many cloths" far enough but at least give me a reason.

 

[PunkRex]

but then there are situations where you KNOW they are doing it for fanservice, as in the issue with wearign a bikini during a swordfight, I'm a chick and its not the sexualisation that bothers me as much as SHE IS GOING TO GET STABBED DUH!!! its just impractical and you know theyre doing it because of boobs

Whats wrong with fan-service? I mean it does seem to cut both ways now but video games are fantasy escapism.

My problem as it were, comes from the fact that the definition of sexualised seems to be getting broader and broader, including things I dont see as sexualised. Am I becoming more jaded about it or are people just getting an inch and taking a mile?

well I think the problem peole have here is that good well rounded female charachters (and even more so female PC's) are harder to find than shallow (and sometimes not shallow) charachters that are over sexualised, fan service might be all well and good but it seems the developers think a female charahcter can't exist without it

now we all know there are exceptions to that, Like Alyx Vance or female commander shepard and yes game charachrts both female and male are good looking but there is a difference between being good looking and over sexualised, plus its not just sexualisation but also a female charachrts role...you know needing to be saved or being really really annoying

heres somthign else Arguably you can find strong female player charachters in RPG's such as fallout ,Dragon age and mass effect, you know whats interesting about those? the PC can be ether gender, shows that mabye being hung up on gender instead of the actual charachter is half the problem

To add to that is fan service is a type of eye candy, and like candy doesn't have much nutritional value, neither does this. Can it be necessary? Yes, and there would be moments in all kinds of arts and entertainment that would be missing without it.

Unfortunetley, as seen with a lot of the over-sexualized games like the "Guy Game" or Dead or Alive, we don't get much out of them. Yes the eye candy is appreciated until the 13th beauty then we get jaded a little bit.

Plus its an easy cop out to doing actual work. You show boobs the easily stimulated will be impressed to keep playing.

Sorry double post, damn max post limit thingy.

 

[Dyp100]

I'm already on the second paragraph and know what you're going to say.

You know what? Men are also eye candy in video games, they are muscly, attractive, etc. Just because females characters have large breasts doesn't mean much beyond "look at something pretty and idolised".

Either way, there is a lack of "strong" female sidekicks because in the video game industry story comes last, plus the lack of females in the industry encouraging a stronger gender image.

Even though I imagine I sound like a bit of a dick right now, it'd love to see stronger female characters, and characters in general portrayed in a more realistic light. Eventually, it'll come, but it's still going to take a while. Video game writing is just BAD, we need more people to learn HOW to write for video games and things will get better.

Also, I don't understand why everyone loves Alyx. She acts shy around Gordon, though has her badarse moments. Also, Gordon is as old as her dad (technically) so their possible relationship is a little creepy in some sense.

It'd agree in some points (no point shoehorning something in if it doesn't fit) though it'd disagree there is a problem with sexiness but it has to make sense in context. Also, males characters themselves aren't very interesting, if you think about it, they just tend to give an illusion because they are on screen more.

Either way, article wasn't bad, but the topic has been done to death.

 

[WesternGamer]

To all the people thinking Bayonetta was great feminist character, her creator sees otherwise:

http://www.destructoid.com/bayonetta-dev-to-one-woman-all-other-women-are-enemies-191213.phtml

 

[Thaluikhain]

To all the people thinking Bayonetta was great feminist character

play Bayonetta

 

[AntithesisBLACK]

the following is counTer point.

woman will stop being objectified in games when people stop buying games that objectify women.

It's like complaining about video games having to much violence right after you bought
VIOLENCE 3 the VIOLENT VIOLENCE! or to a lesser extent you bought ninja gaiden and didn't complain or stop playing after you noticed the Jiggle physics
dig?

It seems to me that we keep saying it's bad. But that's where it ends. just saying "thats messed up" and then continuing doing it is not helping any. I mean what's the point of saying somthing is bad and leaving it at that

OFF TOPIC- Big rap fan and i still think it's stupid to complain about the negative affects of drugs on people and then make a song about selling drugs.

YES it's shallow here's the reality allot of us are all just that SHALLOW. Even in the article the guy only realty noticed till his friend pointed it out.

Look no dude is ever gonna get up and say he loves objectifying women. that's not about to happen. There's no evil SKELITOR pimp dude to point a finger at here. Theres just a bunch of dudes who don't realty care as much as EVEN THEY think they should.

 

[RA92]

anc[is]I certainly would not have listened to Miranda any more if she were less sexy. She is still a *****. She is always unpleasant and bossy, and I can't take her moments of kindness seriously, because I know that in five minutes she's going to be groaning about something and badmouthing someone. There isn't even any growth in her romance, it's just "BEWBS". Jack is more tolerable to me, and more human. Maybe it's just me but I can stand her extremely overzealous badassery way more than Miranda's ice queen act.

Funny, I had the opposite reaction. Miranda was always 'meh', but Jack was just.. intolerable. Always acting so precious, like she was the only person who had to deal with some form of past hardship. A real whiner. I mean, get over it already! What pissed me off the most was what happened after Suicide Mission: while everyone was patting me on the back for being the biggest badass in the galaxy, all she did was go 'Hey'... I MEAN, THAT'S IT? DAMMIT GIRL I WANT MY COOKIE!

I've got issues I guess...

On another note, dammit Escapist, you trollin' on me with this captcha shit? It's the 3rd time I'm trying to get past it, for the Giant Spaghetti Monster's sake! You leave me no choice...

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CAPTCHA FAIL! Muhahahahaha!

 

[Chaosweaver]

at no point in any Half-Life game does Alyx ever do any of the flirting.

Not true. Alyx at least once makes overtly sexual eye contact and strokes her hair. Granted, this is nowhere near the overt sexualisation which occurs in other games, but this statement in the article is patently untrue.

The reason Alyx struck Charles as the love interest was because she was so loveable that the player is naturally drawn to her.

I'd disagree with this too - I found her annoying and unlikeable.

 

[interspark]

no, i disagree, you get a character in any medium, be it game, film, cartoon etc you want them to look good, or if they're a bad looking character, photogenically bad. it's not just females either, you hardly get ugly men in video gams now do you?