No, I really like it too, it's just that Mirror's Edge has drawbacks. You put up with them because there's nothing else like it, but really, it should be done better, and Mirror's Edge 2 needs to take into account what you're looking at to determine context, and also let you string together several items to look at for determining context sensitive actions.Sacman said:
Brink looks like what Mirror's Edge should have been
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Yes, but Mirror's Edge actually makes a pretty good FPS too for a number of reasons.DeaconSawyer said:
I wasn't suggest ME use that, I was suggesting ME take into account what you're looking at the way Brink does.
I was starting to get that impression halfway through the last paragraph.
Flash? My computer can't handle it that well so a lot of things look jerky to me.godofallu said:
This game actually looks really cool. But the half-freerunning looks like just a little extra. I watched the two trailer-things and it looks really really really great, way better than CoD or Halo. I'm probably gonna get it when it's out.
Which in this case applies to you, see below.dathwampeer said:
There aren't, see above where I bolded. Mirror's Edge uses the same button/key for both jumping and wall running, so it's a hybrid between a unique button for everything and handling things in a context sensitive fashion.
Not the case at all, see Yahtzee's review, and well, a ton of other reviews out there. Mirror's Edge was a flawed game with an excellent concept.
And here's where you show again that you're both opinionated and dumb, as you didn't actually pay attention to how it works in Brink.
Yes you do, but of course you spaced out on how that works.
I enjoyed mirrors edge its only true problems were its wonky combat it felt like they wanted to do something new but someone felt that having no guns was too risky.DeaconSawyer said:
The freerunner cops were sorely underused considering how much of the story was focused on project iccarus and the fact that they simply intergrated with the game better than the swat teams did.
It was disapointing because i loved the idea (especially artstyle) and what they were trying to do before release, it was a good game but really should and could have been outstanding even if a sequel gets it right it won't be as fresh.
Or they might end up following tomb raider and constantly keep making the same mistakes in every game
combat in tomb raider for 10 years still falls into the same pattern
1. stand on ledge where enemies can't reach you, wait until they die
2. backflip around like mad on flat circular terrain, wait until they die
doesn't sound bad but guns auto target and pistols never run out of ammo remvoing any fun or challenge, every game has involved shooting tigers, nobody upon seeing a new tomb raider game went "wow I can't wait to shoot tigers again"
But that is largely why I don't really consider it an FPS. In fact I have played it through again recently and discovered that you can in fact play the whole game without ever engaging in combat.jamesworkshop said:
Like I say, the game had its problems. The combat was one, and personally I think it should be scraped. The Icarus Runners barely being used is another but I feel that that was due more to the fact that the game was incredibly short. But as a game testing the waters of what was great new idea, all that makes sense. I feel the game was good as it was, and if they take it, and make a fuller game around what they've hopefully learned, it will be a great game. But I really don't get where all the hate comes from.
No, this looks like something trying to play off of the success of Mirror's Edge.
Mirror's Edge has crappy combat, I'll say that much, but it's controls were awesome and incredibly immersive, and the running had a sense of flow that no other game had. The reason that the combat was bad was because you weren't supposed to get into combat. You are not a super soldier, you are a courier. Guns just slowed you down and were unnecessary. Of course, this came back to haunt you in the last level when you almost had to do the crappy combat, but whatever.
Brink looks like it'll take all the fun out of that awesome running by mapping everything to one button.
Mirror's Edge has crappy combat, I'll say that much, but it's controls were awesome and incredibly immersive, and the running had a sense of flow that no other game had. The reason that the combat was bad was because you weren't supposed to get into combat. You are not a super soldier, you are a courier. Guns just slowed you down and were unnecessary. Of course, this came back to haunt you in the last level when you almost had to do the crappy combat, but whatever.
Brink looks like it'll take all the fun out of that awesome running by mapping everything to one button.
I see the difference between the two games' free running mechanics as similar to the difference between a simulation racer and an arcade racer.migo said:
In Forza Motorsport 2, you had to get the timing and amount of braking and acceleration to nail a corner just right. Furthermore, you also had to take into consideration what line you would take through the corner as well. This is our Mirror's Edge. Tough, hard, unmerciful.
In Split/Second: Velocity (which I must confess, I have not played), the racing mechanics are less nuanced and complex, and the driving itself (excluding the hazards) I imagine would be quite easy, accessible and forgiving. This is what Brink appears it will be.
Neither is inherently better than the other.
However, if you are going to have a game that is solely about free-running, it makes more sense to have a more complex, nuanced, and exacting system, whereas if you are going to have gunplay and teamwork involved as well, then maybe go for something less difficult on the player.
Just my two cents.
You're confusing the Jumping mechanics with the Mantling mechanics. The Mantling mechanics only occur if you're running and you run into an obstacle or something nearby above your head. If the enemy is above you and look up, you're not gonna jump or mantle or anything.dathwampeer said:
Also, did you notice how early on in the video, he walked into a fence? That's to stop the gaming from preforming an action you don't want it to. There is a certain button you need to push to actually start doing Parkour.
As for Mirror's edge argument, I found the game boring and uninteresting. You learn everything you need to know within the first five minutes of the game and they take the appealing thing about the game out from underneath you, that being the level design. Its really difficult to do a system around free-running when you stick me in a ship with one definitive exit.
As for challenging? It wasn't, I beat it in one Day. Then I turned around and played the Hard mode while hindering myself by trying to play the full game without firing a shot with the exception of that one shot you need to take at the armored van. Was that difficult? Oh yeah, but know what? The concept wasn't difficult. The jumps didn't get harder, nor did the platforming. The only that changed was me turning into a Wafer-stick health wise and everything in front of me wasn't glowing bright red.
The point, which you missed because you didn't read the OP, is that the difference between the two is a matter of inches, so a very slight angle change will mean the difference between actually getting the wall run and just standard jumping. Since the game uses context sensitive functions, it needs a better implementation of them, and Brink shows how context sensitive functions should be implemented - whatever you're looking at is what you want to interact with, if you're running towards a wall and looking at it, and you jump, you should do a wall run, it shouldn't interpret it as a standard jump the way it sometimes does, if you're aiming for a pipe as you're doing a long jump, it should recognise it based on you looking at the red pipe and have you reach out to grab onto it instead of just grabbing in that narrow space where the game has made it acceptable.dathwampeer said:
Getting a grip of the controls isn't the problem, it's that the controls don't do what you want them to do because they're context sensitive, and they don't engage predictably. If you can control what engages by looking at it, then it becomes predictable. If you're looking down at a ledge in front of you it means you want to walk sideways across it, not walk right off it.
No, you don't understand how it works. You move with the analog stick, and the SMART function only engages when you press the button, it's not going to kick in automatically whenever you look at something. Your comprehension is lacking, as is your attention span as you evidently weren't able to follow what I said in the OP nor were you able to follow what the devs were talking about in the video.
I thought Mirror's Edge was great, it was everything i expected it to be.
I wouldn't go as far as saying Brink is what Mirror's Edge should have been, but it does look like a great development on the freerunning sort of genre.
They seem to have focused more on the shooting aspect of the game though. And where Mirror's Edge had a lot of skill in it's freerunning, Brink looks like it does a lot of it for you.
Imagine Mirrors Edge with the controls of Brink. You could probably complete a level by looking at the exit and running there with the SMART button held down, they use freerunning in completely different ways.
I wouldn't compare them directly, Mirror's Edge is still the place to go for a pure freerunning game.
I wouldn't go as far as saying Brink is what Mirror's Edge should have been, but it does look like a great development on the freerunning sort of genre.
They seem to have focused more on the shooting aspect of the game though. And where Mirror's Edge had a lot of skill in it's freerunning, Brink looks like it does a lot of it for you.
Imagine Mirrors Edge with the controls of Brink. You could probably complete a level by looking at the exit and running there with the SMART button held down, they use freerunning in completely different ways.
I wouldn't compare them directly, Mirror's Edge is still the place to go for a pure freerunning game.
It works in Forza or GT because there's never an instance where pressing a button does something else from what it did last time. Mirror's Edge isn't like that, it doesn't give you a separate button for wall running, another one for slowly going along the ledge, a third one to grab on to something, and so on. It goes half way, so while in principle your analogy makes sense, in reality Mirror's Edge doesn't work that way. In one instance you can jump up and grab onto something, and in another even though it looks like you should be able to, you can't. There's a section where I'm looking up, and I know if I were in that situation I could jump up and grab the plank and pull myself up - it's no different from doing a chinup and pulling myself up. In the game that doesn't work, but that same plank I can't grab from the bottom I can grab if I'm jumping a huge gap from another building. It rips you out of the immersion. When you follow the path that they had planned for you it works beautifully, but if you try somethng they never considered it often breaks.latenightapplepie said:
As they mentioned in the Brink dev video it's easy to make it work if you have a blank environment, but it stops working so well when you add details. The controls in ME would work if you had an environment that consisted entirely of boxes, and there weren't anything that didn't exist in a 90 degree angle compared to something else.
In the driving example, I agree with you, that neither is inherrently better, but if you look at specifically the aspect of context based functions, Brink does it better than Mirror's Edge, because whatever you're looking at determines your action. In Mirror's Edge you sometimes have to hope the game figures out what you mean it to do.
Actually, I'd like to see Mirror's Edge 2 go the opposite way, compounding on and refining the running controls and ditching combat all together.
Running is more fun with bullets flying past your head anyways.
Running is more fun with bullets flying past your head anyways.