Brink looks like what Mirror's Edge should have been

[Delusibeta]

Ultimately, comparing Brink to Mirror's Edge is futile. Brink is first and foremost a FPS, while ME is a platformer. In my opinion, if Brink's SMART button was implemented in Mirror's Edge, it will probably kill any difficulty the game had, rendering it even shorter.

Basically, you're comparing apples and oranges here. In Brink, the SMART button is essentially the Run button, similar to the likes of Batman AA's run button, although it's a bit smarter than your standard hold-down-to-run-and-jump button. (You see what Splash Damage did there.)

That said, judging from the gameplay videos, it looks like a solid FPS, and Splash Damage certainly knows their FPS onions.

 

[TerribleAssassin]

Mirror's Edge's concept was let down by it's fiddly controls.

But with Brink's single button system, I doubt it'll respond to some commands inputted.


Either way, one was an alright game and the other I'm looking forward to because 1) it's made by Bethseda and 2) It looks like a break from all the samey shooters we've been seeing with this generation..

 

[Delusibeta]

Mirror's Edge's concept was let down by it's fiddly controls.

But with Brink's single button system, I doubt it'll respond to some commands inputted.


Either way, one was an alright game and the other I'm looking forward to because 1) it's made by Bethseda and 2) It looks like a break from all the samey shooters we've been seeing with this generation..

Bethesda's only publishing it, it's Splash Damage (of Enemy Territory fame) who's developing it.

 

[Eponet]

And here's where you show again that you're both opinionated and dumb, as you didn't actually pay attention to how it works in Brink.

Did you actually watch the video you posted?

Whilst holding the free running key you just look at were you want to go and the game does it for you. You're running and you look up. It climbs. You're running and you look down. It slides. What about what I said earlier contradicts this? Go watch the video you posted then continue this argument.

While he might not have stated that in the most eloquent way, yes, it does suggest a lack of understanding.

"Looking down to slide and looking up to jump sounds good on paper, until you were just looking up to see an enemy and end up jumping onto something."

From what I've seen, that would only ever happen if you were holding the button down, if you don't want to jump, just depress the button for as long as you need, then press it down again when you do want to.

 

[The Austin]

Join the club.

No seriously, join the club. I made a user group and I'm the only one in it.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

There was nothing flawed about the controls or freerunning of Mirror's Edge; many other aspects of the game were flawed but that wasn't. It was just HARD and needed a lot of precision and finesse which most people had a lot of trouble with. I never had any problems with the controls since I seem to have a natural affinity to this type of Gameplay for some reason and I held some of the top 10-20 highest scores on some of the time-trials at one point... It was a niche game but the freerunning was absolutely fine in terms of polish, the only thing it needed was some more variety in my opinion. I never had any of the problems people have stated, and whenever I fucked up it was my own fault, not the games fault.

On the other hand, yes Brink looks very cool and I am looking forward to it.

 

[GLo Jones]

Now, the thing with brink is it's all done with a single button.

I'm sure I've heard somewhere that you can manually press particular buttons if you so wish, and your character will actually perform the action slightly quicker if your timing is bang on.

Though I could be mistake. It could even simply be dependant on your timing of that single S.M.A.R.T. button.

I'll look into it.

Edit: Minor quote fail, sorted now.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

Reminds me of Arkham Asylum's combat system.

This looks great, should be really fast and fun.

Should be.

 

[migo]

Just from looking at the video, it seems like the freerunning is too fast. What I mean is that it makes it too easy to just pull yourself up and over something (specifically, the metal detector). Personally, I would rather the mechanic depict a more realistic strength level.

I find this problem crops up in tabletop RPGs, geeks want the characters represented to have their average physical abilities. If you look at the character models, they're all pretty muscled and/or wiry, so that seems just fine to me. Hell, Faith had some pretty insane capabilities, again, doable but she's on the extremes of human ability.

To me this sounds like if you're not holding the SMART button you walk and if you are holding the SMART button you sprint as well as automatically interact with obstacles when you get up to them. You control witch way you use something by the direction you characters is looking. No timing or anything involved you just hold the button down like in Assassins Creed. This however could cause problems, what if I want to slide to avoid enemy fire but I'm not in the context to slide? Will this mean I have to look away from my target all the time because SMART is affected by where I'm looking?
Thankfully it seems you can use manual controls as well rather than the smart button so hopefully that shouldn't be an issue

They show it in one of the other videos where the guy is running, looks down and slides to come up right behind a concrete barrier. Pretty much if you're on any flat surface it looks like you can slide, if you're looking at anything that's too high to jump over or on to you'll vault or mantle.

IMO the smart button sounds a little cheep since it dose most of the work for you and acts as a 'cover your ass' button when you?re trying to do things manually : /
But I suppose the simpler controls will be better for the consoles (I'm on Pc so I'm use to my games having more things bound to different keys.)
and It might mean the game is more strategy based than reflex and internet speed based since it?s not about pulling of complex button combos which could be a good thing

Now I agree it is cheap if used in a context of Mirror's Edge, but if you read my OP you'll see I'm not talking about the button but about controlling what happens based on where you're looking. You still need to get the timing right as it currently is in ME, but you'd make sure that the right action actually happens based on what you're looking at.

***** please I just dismantled your entire argument.

In future actually watch the video's properly before telling other people to do the same.

That's exactly what you need to do, you can't take anything in the video out of the context of what was said at a different time in the video, that's what you're doing, focusing on a single point rather than the whole video and everything he says, and therefore you're the one not watching it properly, and didn't do any dismantling of my argument.

So you're saying you want a free-running game that has you do nothing but run forward and push a single button to get around?

No, and incidentally what I would like is for people to actually read starting posts in a thread before responding. The Escapist seems to prove that video gaming does decrease attention span.

And here's where you show again that you're both opinionated and dumb, as you didn't actually pay attention to how it works in Brink.

Did you actually watch the video you posted?

Whilst holding the free running key you just look at were you want to go and the game does it for you. You're running and you look up. It climbs. You're running and you look down. It slides. What about what I said earlier contradicts this? Go watch the video you posted then continue this argument.

While he might not have stated that in the most eloquent way, yes, it does suggest a lack of understanding.

"Looking down to slide and looking up to jump sounds good on paper, until you were just looking up to see an enemy and end up jumping onto something."

From what I've seen, that would only ever happen if you were holding the button down, if you don't want to jump, just depress the button for as long as you need, then press it down again when you do want to.

How is this still going on?

If you read an understood the post you quoted you'd know full well I understand how the game mechanics work. Migo was under the assumption that you hit the smart key at the exact point you wanted to jump. I was pointing out that you have to keep it held down constantly to free run. Basically what assasins creed did but from the FPP.

Which is not the way mirrors edge should have been.

It's still going on because you don't understand how it works and everyone's trying to explain this to you.

Now, the thing with brink is it's all done with a single button.

I'm sure I've heard somewhere that you can manually press particular buttons if you so wish, and your character will actually perform the action slightly quicker if your timing is bang on.

Though I could be mistake. It could even simply be dependant on your timing of that single S.M.A.R.T. button.

I'll look into it.

Edit: Minor quote fail, sorted now.

I just noticed a post higher up quoting from the brink community that suggests exactly that.

 

[lacktheknack]

Getting a grip of the controls isn't the problem, it's that the controls don't do what you want them to do because they're context sensitive, and they don't engage predictably. If you can control what engages by looking at it, then it becomes predictable. If you're looking down at a ledge in front of you it means you want to walk sideways across it, not walk right off it.

I jumped to wall run at a 45 degree angle, and it's never failed.

I walk towards my thin ledge at 45 degrees, and Faith always shuffles onto it.

I jump in front of a box, and Faith launches off of it 98% of the time.

As in, I have never, ever, ever, EVER had issues with the context sensitive pieces (except the 2% of the time where she doesn't respond to small boxes right). So little to the point that I don't understand how anyone else could.

Maybe it's the Xbox controller? I dunno.

Quite possibly, I noticed a huge improvement going from PC using the keyboard to the Xbox 360 control pad, but it was also obviously designed with the DualShock 3 in mind, so it wouldn't surprise me if the controls work better on the PS3.

Ummm, no, I use the keyboard/mouse configuration and have no problems.

 

[SomeUnregPunk]

Point 3) I highlighted something you either missed or overlooked because it voids your argument.

That's where your mistake is, you don't hold the free running key.

The only piece of evidence I need to supply in this to prove you have been twisting everything and wrong from the start is this.

To free run. You need to hold the smart key. Not to run. Not to walk. Not to aim and shoot.

Just to free run. Which is the part of the running known as parkour. Using momentum and speed to navigate over random terrain. To do any of these things you need to hold the smart key.

Which is what I said from the beginning of this argument.

How you perceive that to be wrong I honestly cannot fathom. Especially seeing as in 3 video's the Dev's have released about the SMART system they have described it's usage in exactly that way.

Whereas you were clearly under the impression that you didn't hold the button at all. As shown in your own words. Not edited. Strictly in context. If you even try and argue your way out this I honestly don't think I can respect you as human being any-more. It's taking all my strenght to stop myself from just yelling 'Troll' at the top of my lungs as it is.

Dathwampeer is right. Migo is wrong. You are wrong on the internet. Big deal. Let it die.

... in regards to OP: I brought Mirrors edge for the xbox and didn't find the control issues that you have. I do understand where you are coming from and from how the Brink developers are talking about their system... it does sound better than the system used by Mirror's edge.

Actually, I'd like to see Mirror's Edge 2 go the opposite way, compounding on and refining the running controls and ditching combat all together.

Running is more fun with bullets flying past your head anyways.

That would be awesome. I brought the first game because I was wrongly informed on the day of the sale that the game was about free running as a courier in a open world enviroment.
The truth didn't make Mirror's edge a bad game ... it just made me pine for the lie.

 

[Calico93]

I really liked Mirror's Edge and seriously hope they make ME2
but Brink looks awesome, an FPS with alot more freedom of movement
Jazzy

 

[GLo Jones]

Now, the thing with brink is it's all done with a single button.

I'm sure I've heard somewhere that you can manually press particular buttons if you so wish, and your character will actually perform the action slightly quicker if your timing is bang on.

Though I could be mistake. It could even simply be dependant on your timing of that single S.M.A.R.T. button.

I'll look into it.

Edit: Minor quote fail, sorted now.

I just noticed a post higher up quoting from the brink community that suggests exactly that.

The first video I saw of Brink was actually a demo of their S.M.A.R.T. system. I thought they said it in that.

Spoiler: Turns out I was wrong.

Though I'm sure I heard it, maybe in an interview somewhere

Either way, this is definitely one of my most anticipated games at the moment.

 

[DementedSheep]

They show it in one of the other videos where the guy is running, looks down and slides to come up right behind a concrete barrier. Pretty much if you're on any flat surface it looks like you can slide, if you're looking at anything that's too high to jump over or on to you'll vault or mantle.

Yes I know, I saw that but he is probably be using the manual key to slide out of context not the smart key to do it otherwise you would slide every time you look down when you sprinting around the place which would get annoying. I was concerned about the game being to restrictive with the parkour elements just from watching the video, again with Assassins Creed which sounds like it had a similar system (the leg button although you couldn't exit half way thru action like you can here) I hated how restrictive it was but now that I know there are manual keys as well that won't be an issue and it actually sounds like it's a good system.

Now I agree it is cheap if used in a context of Mirror's Edge, but if you read my OP you'll see I'm not talking about the button but about controlling what happens based on where you're looking. You still need to get the timing right as it currently is in ME, but you'd make sure that the right action actually happens based on what you're looking at.

I have read your OP and yeah the more I think about it the better the SMART system sounds for this game. For a game based around shooting having one key control how you handle terrain makes sense. It still sounds a little cheep to me (I'm not talking in the context of mirrors edge I'm mean in general) but up into the last year or 2 I was more into platforming games like PoP not shooters and that's probably why.
Although you don't need to get the timing right to get thru obstacles in Brink the SMART key is simply held down and you will automatically do things but you can get over things faster and more affectively if you use a combination of manual and SMART and that's where timing comes into it.

The reason I haven't been commenting on what you saying about the issues in mirrors edge is because I didn't really have any. apart from a few incidences when I would wall run up something and try to pull myself up only to be left hanging unable to pull myself up because a 1cm think sheet of wood or something was lying on the spot I wanted to get too but that didn't happen very often and I never had any issues with anything else. Yes I occasionally jumped when I wanted to wall run but that was because I did the move wrong not because of Issues with the game but I know other people who have had issues so it could just be because of the system you're playing it on.

 

[FinalHeart95]

Mirror's Edge was more about the parkour, and avoiding the enemies was usually the best choice of action if possible. So basically like a parkour game with some small FPS elements. Brink seems like an FPS with parkour elements.

A similar comparison would be the relationship between Borderlands and Fallout 3. Borderlands is more like an FPS with RPG elements, and Fallout 3 is more like an RPG with FPS elements.

 

[migo]

Ummm, no, I use the keyboard/mouse configuration and have no problems.

Then you're lucky. I've come across several people who found Mirror's Edge almost impossible to play on the PC. A big issue is no analog sensitivity for moving speed, another is the quick turn function.

It's still going on because people insist on taking what I said out of context.

No, you insist on taking what the developers say out of context, and on top of that you tried sending me a PM "proving" your point when it without a doubt proved you were wrong.

Point 3) I highlighted something you either missed or overlooked because it voids your argument.

That's where your mistake is, you don't hold the free running key.

The only piece of evidence I need to supply in this to prove you have been twisting everything and wrong from the start is this.

To free run. You need to hold the smart key. Not to run. Not to walk. Not to aim and shoot.

You don't free run with the SMART key, you perform one of several distinct actions with the SMART key.

Yes I know, I saw that but he is probably be using the manual key to slide out of context not the smart key to do it otherwise you would slide every time you look down when you sprinting around the place which would get annoying.

You don't just sprint using the SMART key, you sprint and use the smart key while sprinting. It's not the most clear way of saying it in the videos, but if you put all of them together along with the written descriptions, it makes sense. Particularly given that you have a manual key for doing everything, there's clearly one for sprinting and only sprinting regardless if anything that could be done with the SMART key can be done without.

I have read your OP and yeah the more I think about it the better the SMART system sounds for this game. For a game based around shooting having one key control how you handle terrain makes sense. It still sounds a little cheep to me (I'm not talking in the context of mirrors edge I'm mean in general) but up into the last year or 2 I was more into platforming games like PoP not shooters and that's probably why.
Although you don't need to get the timing right to get thru obstacles in Brink the SMART key is simply held down and you will automatically do things but you can get over things faster and more affectively if you use a combination of manual and SMART and that's where timing comes into it.

Yeah, I realise that's the case with Brink, but what I was suggesting is that Mirror's Edge handle any of its context sensitive actions based on what you're looking at. If you're looking at a ledge and step forwards you won't step off. If you're looking at a wall and jump you do a wall run.

The reason I haven't been commenting on what you saying about the issues in mirrors edge is because I didn't really have any. apart from a few incidences when I would wall run up something and try to pull myself up only to be left hanging unable to pull myself up because a 1cm think sheet of wood or something was lying on the spot I wanted to get too but that didn't happen very often and I never had any issues with anything else. Yes I occasionally jumped when I wanted to wall run but that was because I did the move wrong not because of Issues with the game but I know other people who have had issues so it could just be because of the system you're playing it on.

The thing is if there were a separate wall run button there wouldn't be any "doing the move wrong" and if it did it context based, depending on what you're looking at there wouldn't be doing it wrong either. You can always say you're playing it wrong, but it's also clear if you go through Mirror's Edge in a detailed fashion that it is broken at parts and things you logically think you should be able to do simply don't work.