Can "e-sports" be considered true sports?

[Owyn_Merrilin]

No. Huh that's kind of short... HELL NO.

sport   [spawrt, spohrt] noun

1.an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

Not true. The word "sport" has become so jumbled that it no longer simply means "athletic competition". It means so many more things now, and is applicable to other things. Chess is probably the prime example. Chess is a sport, and no matter how much you complain that "according to the dictionary, this isn't a sport!", noone is going to care or change how they view sport or what word they use to reference it.
Because you know what? Words change. All the time. They mutate. Dictionaries are there to serve language, not the other way around. They simply reflect how the language is TODAY, and soon, it won't say "athletic competition" any more.
I can give you several examples of this, but easiest is the word "Gay". Look up how it is described now, and how it was described a hundred years ago.

Wrong. Language does not change to how you personally use it, but how everyone uses it. This thread clearly shows that many users of the English language disagree with you.

Yes, you are right, many of them disagree with me, but most likely not enough. Since people still understand the term "e-sport", and similar, and it is a growing phenomenon, it won't be long before a dictionary near you changes the definition of sport, or at least include a footnote. And then they can't hide behind that excuse any longer. Then they have to say "I don't think it's a true sport, because I'm more used with the word "sport" meaning something else, because it is in that context I have heard it most, and thus associate it with"

We aren't hiding behind a dictionary; you're hiding behind wishful thinking. E-sports do not equal sports, in the same way that e-mail isn't carried by the US postal service, and can't deliver packages. You're really being silly here.

And how does it not qualify as a sport, I ask you, if you can't quote a dictionary. Give me another argument, please.

There are quite a few dictionary quotes further up if you really want one. The truth is, though, that the general population takes "sports" to include the athleticism clause. As I said, language changes, but the word "sports" has yet to change the way you're claiming. Besides, since you're the one claiming the dictionary is wrong, I'd say the burden of proof is on you.

If we had a world-wide poll, I'm pretty sure it would be in a majority favor of "E-sports are not true sports", indeed. Why would they say that? In the end, they would most likely say either "Uh..I just don't think it is. Sports mean like hockey and stuff" or "Because the dictionary" say so.
Well, a dictionary get changed all the time (every year) in fact. So what it says today, doesn't mean it will say tomorrow.
I'm not saying it's "wrong", I'm saying that when you disregard what it says, since it is only there to document current language, not dictate, then nothing except public opinion dictates that a certain word mean a certain thing (or several things) during a certain time (see the "Gay" reference for this).
So it all comes down to "have the public opinion changes enough?". Well, no, I'd agree with you there. It most likely has not. So in most minds, it's not a true sport, because gaming and such haven't been common enough for it to be considered one. Not yet.
Chess would probably have a far better favor in the "world-wide poll", though. It's been around longer.

Even chess would have a low percentage claiming it to be a sport. The only reason it's recognized as a sport in certain countries is that the major chess league (not sure what it's called) lobbied to be called a sport, because it entails certain tax benefits. Kind of like how Arabs are white according to the U.S. Census. (They really are; look it up.)

Edit: And what you are describing is exactly why e-sports and sports are two different words. If I randomly say the word "apple" actually means "orange," that doesn't make it so. For the meaning of a word to change, the vast majority of people have to understand that it carries the new definition. A small percentage with an axe to grind does not a vast majority make -- or do you want to argue with every single word in this post? Because I find it odd that someone who is pushing so hard for definitions that fluid can even understand the words I'm writing. Why are their definitions so stable?

I haven't ever heard "E-sports" as a word, you know. But fine, I'd happily agree that E-Sport is a different word from Sports. But that's not the issue here, you know. The issue is that "E-sport" isn't a "Real" Sport. That a "real" sport is something rigidly defined. Well, it isn't, because the definitions change all the time. For now, E-sport covers gaming/etc nicely, though. It's just a non-physical sport then, is it not?
"But a non-physical sport isn't a sport, because a sport is defined by the general population". True, a SPORT is defined by the general population. But this is a non-physical one. Heck, picking up girls are often refered to as "sport" by some gentlemen.

*sigh* I'm going to say this one more time: sports are, by definition, physical. There is no such thing as a non-physical sport. As I said before, e-mail isn't really mail either. e-sports is just a term (a pretty silly one, too) for competitive videogames. The term makes a comparison to sports, but it doesn't mean games actually are sports. There isn't a debate here.

By current definition physical. Othervise they are identical. E-sports is a word/term for non-physical competitive gaming, just as E-mail is a word/term for a non-physical message to convey information.
Just because A (Sports/Mail) came first do not make them more "real" than B(E-Sports/E-mail).
They are different words for different yet similar things.
It's just easier to say "Sport" than saying "I play a non-physical competitive game currently not considered a Sport by the general masses and thus not reflected yet in a dictionary thus, and I don't say E-sport though it is its own word because I think it is a silly term and I like to feel that I play Sport because it's a more commonly known term that I don't have to explain with this extremely long sentence every time".

Language is about convenience afterall.

Using the separate words I just pointed out. "Competition" and "game" are the two overarching terms that contain everything I just listed, and there's no need to expand "sports" to be a catchall term for everything that fits into these categories

I once more agree, but add that saying "I play an E-sport" might add a certain feel of serious-ness and dedicated organization, that the person listening might pick up on. If someone said "I play an E-sport" to me, without me knowing what it ment, I'd ask, and the person would probably say something like "I play competitive tournament for (insert game or activity here)", which for me I would then think "Oh, he plays games online". Which isn't really the case, as it is far more than just a few untied online-games. It's more work, more dedication, more tactics and more in general.
And that's where the root of the problem is, I guess. If you say "I play a competitive game", people will think it's a GAME. You know, fun and games? Non-serious shit you do to relax after works?
If they hear "sport", they know it's something more. That's why I'd personally favor going with E-sport, over having to explain my hobby in such a detail every time so that to make sure they really know the difference.

Have you ever watched a televised sporting event? Real sports are called games all the time. Things like "this is a great day in the history of this game" are common utterances from the mouths of the commentators. That post, more than any other, shows that the whole "e-sports are real sports" thing is a misplaced attempt from insecure gamers to get their hobby recognized, and it's just counterproductive.

 

[otakon17]

Sure it is competitive and can be entertaining to watch while involving both strategy with skill, but no it's not a sport

 

[Vhite]

I think people can call it whatever they want but I highly doubt they will be recognised officially as a real sport any time soon.

Then again, stranger things have happened.

Personally I see games as a way to relax. If people have taken it so seriously they want it to be classed as a sport then I think they are doing it wrong.

I used to masturbate a lot, never once classed it as a sport ..... and that did give me forearms like Tyson.

Conversation down the pub..

"I play sport"

"really, what sport is that"

"Starcraft"

*insert saracstic comeback and right hook for being a nipple here*

Actually there are pubs already where people watch starcraft whole time. And its no only in Korea.

 

[Realitycrash]

No. Huh that's kind of short... HELL NO.

sport   [spawrt, spohrt] noun

1.an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

Not true. The word "sport" has become so jumbled that it no longer simply means "athletic competition". It means so many more things now, and is applicable to other things. Chess is probably the prime example. Chess is a sport, and no matter how much you complain that "according to the dictionary, this isn't a sport!", noone is going to care or change how they view sport or what word they use to reference it.
Because you know what? Words change. All the time. They mutate. Dictionaries are there to serve language, not the other way around. They simply reflect how the language is TODAY, and soon, it won't say "athletic competition" any more.
I can give you several examples of this, but easiest is the word "Gay". Look up how it is described now, and how it was described a hundred years ago.

Wrong. Language does not change to how you personally use it, but how everyone uses it. This thread clearly shows that many users of the English language disagree with you.

Yes, you are right, many of them disagree with me, but most likely not enough. Since people still understand the term "e-sport", and similar, and it is a growing phenomenon, it won't be long before a dictionary near you changes the definition of sport, or at least include a footnote. And then they can't hide behind that excuse any longer. Then they have to say "I don't think it's a true sport, because I'm more used with the word "sport" meaning something else, because it is in that context I have heard it most, and thus associate it with"

We aren't hiding behind a dictionary; you're hiding behind wishful thinking. E-sports do not equal sports, in the same way that e-mail isn't carried by the US postal service, and can't deliver packages. You're really being silly here.

And how does it not qualify as a sport, I ask you, if you can't quote a dictionary. Give me another argument, please.

There are quite a few dictionary quotes further up if you really want one. The truth is, though, that the general population takes "sports" to include the athleticism clause. As I said, language changes, but the word "sports" has yet to change the way you're claiming. Besides, since you're the one claiming the dictionary is wrong, I'd say the burden of proof is on you.

If we had a world-wide poll, I'm pretty sure it would be in a majority favor of "E-sports are not true sports", indeed. Why would they say that? In the end, they would most likely say either "Uh..I just don't think it is. Sports mean like hockey and stuff" or "Because the dictionary" say so.
Well, a dictionary get changed all the time (every year) in fact. So what it says today, doesn't mean it will say tomorrow.
I'm not saying it's "wrong", I'm saying that when you disregard what it says, since it is only there to document current language, not dictate, then nothing except public opinion dictates that a certain word mean a certain thing (or several things) during a certain time (see the "Gay" reference for this).
So it all comes down to "have the public opinion changes enough?". Well, no, I'd agree with you there. It most likely has not. So in most minds, it's not a true sport, because gaming and such haven't been common enough for it to be considered one. Not yet.
Chess would probably have a far better favor in the "world-wide poll", though. It's been around longer.

Even chess would have a low percentage claiming it to be a sport. The only reason it's recognized as a sport in certain countries is that the major chess league (not sure what it's called) lobbied to be called a sport, because it entails certain tax benefits. Kind of like how Arabs are white according to the U.S. Census. (They really are; look it up.)

Edit: And what you are describing is exactly why e-sports and sports are two different words. If I randomly say the word "apple" actually means "orange," that doesn't make it so. For the meaning of a word to change, the vast majority of people have to understand that it carries the new definition. A small percentage with an axe to grind does not a vast majority make -- or do you want to argue with every single word in this post? Because I find it odd that someone who is pushing so hard for definitions that fluid can even understand the words I'm writing. Why are their definitions so stable?

I haven't ever heard "E-sports" as a word, you know. But fine, I'd happily agree that E-Sport is a different word from Sports. But that's not the issue here, you know. The issue is that "E-sport" isn't a "Real" Sport. That a "real" sport is something rigidly defined. Well, it isn't, because the definitions change all the time. For now, E-sport covers gaming/etc nicely, though. It's just a non-physical sport then, is it not?
"But a non-physical sport isn't a sport, because a sport is defined by the general population". True, a SPORT is defined by the general population. But this is a non-physical one. Heck, picking up girls are often refered to as "sport" by some gentlemen.

*sigh* I'm going to say this one more time: sports are, by definition, physical. There is no such thing as a non-physical sport. As I said before, e-mail isn't really mail either. e-sports is just a term (a pretty silly one, too) for competitive videogames. The term makes a comparison to sports, but it doesn't mean games actually are sports. There isn't a debate here.

By current definition physical. Othervise they are identical. E-sports is a word/term for non-physical competitive gaming, just as E-mail is a word/term for a non-physical message to convey information.
Just because A (Sports/Mail) came first do not make them more "real" than B(E-Sports/E-mail).
They are different words for different yet similar things.
It's just easier to say "Sport" than saying "I play a non-physical competitive game currently not considered a Sport by the general masses and thus not reflected yet in a dictionary thus, and I don't say E-sport though it is its own word because I think it is a silly term and I like to feel that I play Sport because it's a more commonly known term that I don't have to explain with this extremely long sentence every time".

Language is about convenience afterall.

Using the separate words I just pointed out. "Competition" and "game" are the two overarching terms that contain everything I just listed, and there's no need to expand "sports" to be a catchall term for everything that fits into these categories

I once more agree, but add that saying "I play an E-sport" might add a certain feel of serious-ness and dedicated organization, that the person listening might pick up on. If someone said "I play an E-sport" to me, without me knowing what it ment, I'd ask, and the person would probably say something like "I play competitive tournament for (insert game or activity here)", which for me I would then think "Oh, he plays games online". Which isn't really the case, as it is far more than just a few untied online-games. It's more work, more dedication, more tactics and more in general.
And that's where the root of the problem is, I guess. If you say "I play a competitive game", people will think it's a GAME. You know, fun and games? Non-serious shit you do to relax after works?
If they hear "sport", they know it's something more. That's why I'd personally favor going with E-sport, over having to explain my hobby in such a detail every time so that to make sure they really know the difference.

Have you ever watched a televised sporting event? Real sports are called games all the time. Things like "this is a great day in the history of this game" are common utterances from the mouths of the commentators. That post, more than any other, shows that the whole "e-sports are real sports" thing is a misplaced attempt from insecure gamers to get their hobby recognized, and it's just counterproductive.

In televised sporting events, yes, when everyone know what they are talking about. If you lead in with a stranger "I play a competitive game", they won't have a clue what you mean. Then again, they might now know what E-sports is either, but atleast it's simpler to say.

Yeah, it probably is too. Because their hobby is still stigmatized.

 

[adrian_exec]

No they aren't. Sport is sport, it involves running around competing with people.

Chess is considered a sport, do you do any running around when you play chess?

Many people including myself see them as sport and the only think missing for E-sports is to be recognized as a sport by the Olympic Committee. Whether people agree with this or not it's their choice, but I personally believe it's only a matter of time until e-sports will be considered a sport by everyone!


E-sports are fun to watch, for an example I know a dozen of people who watch Starcraft 2 tournaments but don't play (or play very little) the game itself, how is that any different from watching any other sport? Of course not everyone likes watching them but for as long as there are some viewers and there's a profit to be made, e-sports will only grow more and more until it will get accepted by everyone!

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

No. Huh that's kind of short... HELL NO.

sport   [spawrt, spohrt] noun

1.an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

Not true. The word "sport" has become so jumbled that it no longer simply means "athletic competition". It means so many more things now, and is applicable to other things. Chess is probably the prime example. Chess is a sport, and no matter how much you complain that "according to the dictionary, this isn't a sport!", noone is going to care or change how they view sport or what word they use to reference it.
Because you know what? Words change. All the time. They mutate. Dictionaries are there to serve language, not the other way around. They simply reflect how the language is TODAY, and soon, it won't say "athletic competition" any more.
I can give you several examples of this, but easiest is the word "Gay". Look up how it is described now, and how it was described a hundred years ago.

Wrong. Language does not change to how you personally use it, but how everyone uses it. This thread clearly shows that many users of the English language disagree with you.

Yes, you are right, many of them disagree with me, but most likely not enough. Since people still understand the term "e-sport", and similar, and it is a growing phenomenon, it won't be long before a dictionary near you changes the definition of sport, or at least include a footnote. And then they can't hide behind that excuse any longer. Then they have to say "I don't think it's a true sport, because I'm more used with the word "sport" meaning something else, because it is in that context I have heard it most, and thus associate it with"

We aren't hiding behind a dictionary; you're hiding behind wishful thinking. E-sports do not equal sports, in the same way that e-mail isn't carried by the US postal service, and can't deliver packages. You're really being silly here.

And how does it not qualify as a sport, I ask you, if you can't quote a dictionary. Give me another argument, please.

There are quite a few dictionary quotes further up if you really want one. The truth is, though, that the general population takes "sports" to include the athleticism clause. As I said, language changes, but the word "sports" has yet to change the way you're claiming. Besides, since you're the one claiming the dictionary is wrong, I'd say the burden of proof is on you.

If we had a world-wide poll, I'm pretty sure it would be in a majority favor of "E-sports are not true sports", indeed. Why would they say that? In the end, they would most likely say either "Uh..I just don't think it is. Sports mean like hockey and stuff" or "Because the dictionary" say so.
Well, a dictionary get changed all the time (every year) in fact. So what it says today, doesn't mean it will say tomorrow.
I'm not saying it's "wrong", I'm saying that when you disregard what it says, since it is only there to document current language, not dictate, then nothing except public opinion dictates that a certain word mean a certain thing (or several things) during a certain time (see the "Gay" reference for this).
So it all comes down to "have the public opinion changes enough?". Well, no, I'd agree with you there. It most likely has not. So in most minds, it's not a true sport, because gaming and such haven't been common enough for it to be considered one. Not yet.
Chess would probably have a far better favor in the "world-wide poll", though. It's been around longer.

Even chess would have a low percentage claiming it to be a sport. The only reason it's recognized as a sport in certain countries is that the major chess league (not sure what it's called) lobbied to be called a sport, because it entails certain tax benefits. Kind of like how Arabs are white according to the U.S. Census. (They really are; look it up.)

Edit: And what you are describing is exactly why e-sports and sports are two different words. If I randomly say the word "apple" actually means "orange," that doesn't make it so. For the meaning of a word to change, the vast majority of people have to understand that it carries the new definition. A small percentage with an axe to grind does not a vast majority make -- or do you want to argue with every single word in this post? Because I find it odd that someone who is pushing so hard for definitions that fluid can even understand the words I'm writing. Why are their definitions so stable?

I haven't ever heard "E-sports" as a word, you know. But fine, I'd happily agree that E-Sport is a different word from Sports. But that's not the issue here, you know. The issue is that "E-sport" isn't a "Real" Sport. That a "real" sport is something rigidly defined. Well, it isn't, because the definitions change all the time. For now, E-sport covers gaming/etc nicely, though. It's just a non-physical sport then, is it not?
"But a non-physical sport isn't a sport, because a sport is defined by the general population". True, a SPORT is defined by the general population. But this is a non-physical one. Heck, picking up girls are often refered to as "sport" by some gentlemen.

*sigh* I'm going to say this one more time: sports are, by definition, physical. There is no such thing as a non-physical sport. As I said before, e-mail isn't really mail either. e-sports is just a term (a pretty silly one, too) for competitive videogames. The term makes a comparison to sports, but it doesn't mean games actually are sports. There isn't a debate here.

By current definition physical. Othervise they are identical. E-sports is a word/term for non-physical competitive gaming, just as E-mail is a word/term for a non-physical message to convey information.
Just because A (Sports/Mail) came first do not make them more "real" than B(E-Sports/E-mail).
They are different words for different yet similar things.
It's just easier to say "Sport" than saying "I play a non-physical competitive game currently not considered a Sport by the general masses and thus not reflected yet in a dictionary thus, and I don't say E-sport though it is its own word because I think it is a silly term and I like to feel that I play Sport because it's a more commonly known term that I don't have to explain with this extremely long sentence every time".

Language is about convenience afterall.

Using the separate words I just pointed out. "Competition" and "game" are the two overarching terms that contain everything I just listed, and there's no need to expand "sports" to be a catchall term for everything that fits into these categories

I once more agree, but add that saying "I play an E-sport" might add a certain feel of serious-ness and dedicated organization, that the person listening might pick up on. If someone said "I play an E-sport" to me, without me knowing what it ment, I'd ask, and the person would probably say something like "I play competitive tournament for (insert game or activity here)", which for me I would then think "Oh, he plays games online". Which isn't really the case, as it is far more than just a few untied online-games. It's more work, more dedication, more tactics and more in general.
And that's where the root of the problem is, I guess. If you say "I play a competitive game", people will think it's a GAME. You know, fun and games? Non-serious shit you do to relax after works?
If they hear "sport", they know it's something more. That's why I'd personally favor going with E-sport, over having to explain my hobby in such a detail every time so that to make sure they really know the difference.

Have you ever watched a televised sporting event? Real sports are called games all the time. Things like "this is a great day in the history of this game" are common utterances from the mouths of the commentators. That post, more than any other, shows that the whole "e-sports are real sports" thing is a misplaced attempt from insecure gamers to get their hobby recognized, and it's just counterproductive.

In televised sporting events, yes, when everyone know what they are talking about. If you lead in with a stranger "I play a competitive game", they won't have a clue what you mean. Then again, they might now know what E-sports is either, but atleast it's simpler to say.

Yeah, it probably is too. Because their hobby is still stigmatized.

And where exactly have I said we shouldn't use the term e-sports? I said it was a silly word (and it is) but that doesn't mean we can't use it until we find something better. (Personally, I like the term "Professional Gaming," which existed for years before people started trying to turn it into a sport.) And I never said we should exclusively refer to it as a competitive game; I gave a list of activities, which included sports, e-sports, card games, and board games, and pointed out that the thing that tied those together wasn't that they were all sports (only sport are sports), but that they were all competitive games. Again, you're being silly.

Edit: And if you were leading in with a stranger, wouldn't it be better to say "I play competitive Starcraft" or whatever game you actually play? Even most athletes don't go around saying they play sports; it's more like "I'm on the football team."

 

[Rawne1980]

Actually there are pubs already where people watch starcraft whole time. And its no only in Korea.

Never heard of that.

That is quite possibly the strangest thing i've heard today.

I mean Starcraft is an okay game and all that jazz but to watch it in a pub..... weird.

 

[PinkiePyro]

games like starcraft for the most part fall into what ever catagory stuff like competivte chess is in not E-sports

really the only games that could in theory fall under E-sports are motion related titles but intill we see a hardcore competitive game of that nature E-sports will not exist

 

[Spoon E11]

As far as physical skill goes yeah its sport. If darts is considered a sport then so is Starcraft and Call of Duty.

Actually there are pubs already where people watch starcraft whole time. And its no only in Korea.

Never heard of that.

That is quite possibly the strangest thing i've heard today.

I mean Starcraft is an okay game and all that jazz but to watch it in a pub..... weird.

Yeah its called (and Im not joking) Barcraft. look it up.

 

[Vhite]

E-sports are e-sports, not sports. Even if things like chess are considered to be sports, no one who plays such games goes around telling people that they play sport. If poker and chess are sports than technically e-sports are real sports however that does not matter because meaning of word sport for most of the people will change like this probably only when there will be less real sports than mind sports, which will take some time.

 

[Realitycrash]

No. Huh that's kind of short... HELL NO.

sport   [spawrt, spohrt] noun

1.an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

Not true. The word "sport" has become so jumbled that it no longer simply means "athletic competition". It means so many more things now, and is applicable to other things. Chess is probably the prime example. Chess is a sport, and no matter how much you complain that "according to the dictionary, this isn't a sport!", noone is going to care or change how they view sport or what word they use to reference it.
Because you know what? Words change. All the time. They mutate. Dictionaries are there to serve language, not the other way around. They simply reflect how the language is TODAY, and soon, it won't say "athletic competition" any more.
I can give you several examples of this, but easiest is the word "Gay". Look up how it is described now, and how it was described a hundred years ago.

Wrong. Language does not change to how you personally use it, but how everyone uses it. This thread clearly shows that many users of the English language disagree with you.

Yes, you are right, many of them disagree with me, but most likely not enough. Since people still understand the term "e-sport", and similar, and it is a growing phenomenon, it won't be long before a dictionary near you changes the definition of sport, or at least include a footnote. And then they can't hide behind that excuse any longer. Then they have to say "I don't think it's a true sport, because I'm more used with the word "sport" meaning something else, because it is in that context I have heard it most, and thus associate it with"

We aren't hiding behind a dictionary; you're hiding behind wishful thinking. E-sports do not equal sports, in the same way that e-mail isn't carried by the US postal service, and can't deliver packages. You're really being silly here.

And how does it not qualify as a sport, I ask you, if you can't quote a dictionary. Give me another argument, please.

There are quite a few dictionary quotes further up if you really want one. The truth is, though, that the general population takes "sports" to include the athleticism clause. As I said, language changes, but the word "sports" has yet to change the way you're claiming. Besides, since you're the one claiming the dictionary is wrong, I'd say the burden of proof is on you.

If we had a world-wide poll, I'm pretty sure it would be in a majority favor of "E-sports are not true sports", indeed. Why would they say that? In the end, they would most likely say either "Uh..I just don't think it is. Sports mean like hockey and stuff" or "Because the dictionary" say so.
Well, a dictionary get changed all the time (every year) in fact. So what it says today, doesn't mean it will say tomorrow.
I'm not saying it's "wrong", I'm saying that when you disregard what it says, since it is only there to document current language, not dictate, then nothing except public opinion dictates that a certain word mean a certain thing (or several things) during a certain time (see the "Gay" reference for this).
So it all comes down to "have the public opinion changes enough?". Well, no, I'd agree with you there. It most likely has not. So in most minds, it's not a true sport, because gaming and such haven't been common enough for it to be considered one. Not yet.
Chess would probably have a far better favor in the "world-wide poll", though. It's been around longer.

Even chess would have a low percentage claiming it to be a sport. The only reason it's recognized as a sport in certain countries is that the major chess league (not sure what it's called) lobbied to be called a sport, because it entails certain tax benefits. Kind of like how Arabs are white according to the U.S. Census. (They really are; look it up.)

Edit: And what you are describing is exactly why e-sports and sports are two different words. If I randomly say the word "apple" actually means "orange," that doesn't make it so. For the meaning of a word to change, the vast majority of people have to understand that it carries the new definition. A small percentage with an axe to grind does not a vast majority make -- or do you want to argue with every single word in this post? Because I find it odd that someone who is pushing so hard for definitions that fluid can even understand the words I'm writing. Why are their definitions so stable?

I haven't ever heard "E-sports" as a word, you know. But fine, I'd happily agree that E-Sport is a different word from Sports. But that's not the issue here, you know. The issue is that "E-sport" isn't a "Real" Sport. That a "real" sport is something rigidly defined. Well, it isn't, because the definitions change all the time. For now, E-sport covers gaming/etc nicely, though. It's just a non-physical sport then, is it not?
"But a non-physical sport isn't a sport, because a sport is defined by the general population". True, a SPORT is defined by the general population. But this is a non-physical one. Heck, picking up girls are often refered to as "sport" by some gentlemen.

*sigh* I'm going to say this one more time: sports are, by definition, physical. There is no such thing as a non-physical sport. As I said before, e-mail isn't really mail either. e-sports is just a term (a pretty silly one, too) for competitive videogames. The term makes a comparison to sports, but it doesn't mean games actually are sports. There isn't a debate here.

By current definition physical. Othervise they are identical. E-sports is a word/term for non-physical competitive gaming, just as E-mail is a word/term for a non-physical message to convey information.
Just because A (Sports/Mail) came first do not make them more "real" than B(E-Sports/E-mail).
They are different words for different yet similar things.
It's just easier to say "Sport" than saying "I play a non-physical competitive game currently not considered a Sport by the general masses and thus not reflected yet in a dictionary thus, and I don't say E-sport though it is its own word because I think it is a silly term and I like to feel that I play Sport because it's a more commonly known term that I don't have to explain with this extremely long sentence every time".

Language is about convenience afterall.

Using the separate words I just pointed out. "Competition" and "game" are the two overarching terms that contain everything I just listed, and there's no need to expand "sports" to be a catchall term for everything that fits into these categories

I once more agree, but add that saying "I play an E-sport" might add a certain feel of serious-ness and dedicated organization, that the person listening might pick up on. If someone said "I play an E-sport" to me, without me knowing what it ment, I'd ask, and the person would probably say something like "I play competitive tournament for (insert game or activity here)", which for me I would then think "Oh, he plays games online". Which isn't really the case, as it is far more than just a few untied online-games. It's more work, more dedication, more tactics and more in general.
And that's where the root of the problem is, I guess. If you say "I play a competitive game", people will think it's a GAME. You know, fun and games? Non-serious shit you do to relax after works?
If they hear "sport", they know it's something more. That's why I'd personally favor going with E-sport, over having to explain my hobby in such a detail every time so that to make sure they really know the difference.

Have you ever watched a televised sporting event? Real sports are called games all the time. Things like "this is a great day in the history of this game" are common utterances from the mouths of the commentators. That post, more than any other, shows that the whole "e-sports are real sports" thing is a misplaced attempt from insecure gamers to get their hobby recognized, and it's just counterproductive.

In televised sporting events, yes, when everyone know what they are talking about. If you lead in with a stranger "I play a competitive game", they won't have a clue what you mean. Then again, they might now know what E-sports is either, but atleast it's simpler to say.

Yeah, it probably is too. Because their hobby is still stigmatized.

And where exactly have I said we shouldn't use the term e-sports? I said it was a silly word (and it is) but that doesn't mean we can't use it until we find something better. (Personally, I like the term "Professional Gaming," which existed for years before people started trying to turn it into a sport.) And I never said we should exclusively refer to it as a competitive game; I gave a list of activities, which included sports, e-sports, card games, and board games, and pointed out that the thing that tied those together wasn't that they were all sports (only sport are sports), but that they were all competitive games. Again, you're being silly.

Edit: And if you were leading in with a stranger, wouldn't it be better to say "I play competitive Starcraft" or whatever game you actually play? Even most athletes don't go around saying they play sports; it's more like "I'm on the football team."

Profession Gaming is probably what I would use as well, honestly.
We are going to have to agree to disagree about the fact that "only sports are sports", even though you have phrased it as a lovely tautology.

 

[Gardenia]

No, not really, but as long as chess is recognized as a sport, games fucking should too!

 

[winter2]

I don't even understand the purpose of "professional gaming" or whatever it is called. Why on earth would I even want to watch anything like that as a spectator is beyond me.

I'm assuming that's how they get paid right? Or is it all sponsor based? If so, that sounds like a bad deal for the sponsors.

 

[volkmar77]

So, Do you think when it was first born, Football (or Soccer) was considered a sport?

Nope it was not. It was a form of entertainment practiced mainly by young boys in school, so it was a GAME.

And if you would have asked anybody at those times "is soccer a sport?" they would have laughed in your face and answered "of course not, Jousting is a sport!"

Notice any parallels with what is happening here?

So when did Soccer be considered a sport? when it got organized, they got official rules and official teams that started to play in tournaments. At first it was a small affair and again you got people laughing at these silly people thinking themselves important when playing a children game... but then... well commerce got involved, the teams persevered and now it is the biggest sport in the whole world and people would laugh at you if you would say that "soccer is just a kid's game, it is not a real sport".

All this just to say that, yeah, this is the point where we are with e-sports, there is an hardcore audience and it might spread to the masses... or then not and fall into obscurity.

The biggest difference I see here though is that Videogames are NOT static. Soccer has been quite similar, if not the same, for hundreds of years now. Yes, the rules have changed, maybe even a lot, but it is still about 22 guys chasing a ball. Videogames are not so, even Starcraft, the most popular RTS ever, has now a sequel... so there is Starcraft and... Starcraft 2... so which one is the sport? and WoW Arena matches? Tekken? This is like if Soccer would have like 3 dozens variants, and each variant would change completely the rules. We actually have those, but each is called a different sport.

So yes, e-sports are their own category and they should stay like that. It is though ENTIRELY possible that 50 years from now, no one is playing archaic sports anymore and e-sports are THE stuff of the 21st Century.

 

[bliebblob]

If chess can be a sport than so can gaming. But the way games are now is a pretty big problem. If you want to make a legit sport out of a game you need a single, unchanging game to stick to. Not like it is now: 24578 very similar games that will inevitably fade in popularity within a year. If you want games to be a sport you'll first need games designed with exactly that in mind.

 

[souper soup guy]

Sure why not, I mean esports is just a ultra-serious version of games designed for kids, you know like real sports were.

 

[Berenzen]

Personally my definition of sport is this- a physical competition between two or more entities with a clearly, unbiased (i.e. no panel of judges that determines the score) end point that where a winner then can be declared.

So no, an e-sport is not a sport. That being said, there is nothing wrong with it, it is just not a sport. I also don't consider figure skating, trick snowboarding/skiing, gymnastics etc. a sport, athough they are extremely athletic and competitive. Yet I still have respect for them as they put the time and effort into put into getting to the point they were at. They just are not sports by my definition.

 

[Davey Woo]

Gaming will never be a sport in my eyes, in the same way that chess and pool/snooker are not sports. Sport should involve some form of physical activity.
Sure, hold tournaments to test peoples skill, have world cahmpions at specific games, just don't call it a sport, because it just isn't.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

So, Do you think when it was first born, Football (or Soccer) was considered a sport?

Nope it was not. It was a form of entertainment practiced mainly by young boys in school, so it was a GAME.

And if you would have asked anybody at those times "is soccer a sport?" they would have laughed in your face and answered "of course not, Jousting is a sport!"

Notice any parallels with what is happening here?

So when did Soccer be considered a sport? when it got organized, they got official rules and official teams that started to play in tournaments. At first it was a small affair and again you got people laughing at these silly people thinking themselves important when playing a children game... but then... well commerce got involved, the teams persevered and now it is the biggest sport in the whole world and people would laugh at you if you would say that "soccer is just a kid's game, it is not a real sport".

All this just to say that, yeah, this is the point where we are with e-sports, there is an hardcore audience and it might spread to the masses... or then not and fall into obscurity.

The biggest difference I see here though is that Videogames are NOT static. Soccer has been quite similar, if not the same, for hundreds of years now. Yes, the rules have changed, maybe even a lot, but it is still about 22 guys chasing a ball. Videogames are not so, even Starcraft, the most popular RTS ever, has now a sequel... so there is Starcraft and... Starcraft 2... so which one is the sport? and WoW Arena matches? Tekken? This is like if Soccer would have like 3 dozens variants, and each variant would change completely the rules. We actually have those, but each is called a different sport.

So yes, e-sports are their own category and they should stay like that. It is though ENTIRELY possible that 50 years from now, no one is playing archaic sports anymore and e-sports are THE stuff of the 21st Century.

If you go that far back, "sport" was "anything done purely for leisure and fun," and yeah, everything we're talking about here would be called sport under that definition. It wouldn't be called "a sport," but it would be called sport. As far as calling it "A sport," for the last time, people, "sport" is not a value judgement. It's a word with a definite meaning, and videogames don't fit it.

Edit: To give an example, basketball is relatively new (as in, just barely over 100 years old.) The game was a sport going right out the gate. It may not have been played professionally, but it was still a sport.

 

[Axelhander]

All right, here goes.

*sigh* I'm going to say this one more time: sports are, by definition, physical.

Wrong. Sports are, by definition, competition. Whatever dictionary/Wikipedia article you're getting your info from is wrong. Incorrect. Messed up. Bogus.

And since you blurted out your BS "what about evolution" argument earlier (which makes sense in the same place sports must be physical: your brain), I'll turn it into something actually relevant:

Evolution actually means CHANGE. Not BETTERMENT; CHANGE. Most dictionaries get this wrong. See: the writings of a great deal many evolutionary scientists. And yes it's real. Not sure where you were going with the whole "so I bet you think it's a theory" nonsense.

But I must admit, you're a mountain of flippin' reason compared to this guy:

Sports are typically fun to watch. Games aren't. Sure, clips of someone doing something epic is pretty cool, but I don't want to watch 12 guys camp in Call of Duty for half an hour until someone gets bored and tries to run and gun.

Oh, and moving your fingers doesn't really count as a physical activity because in the end, you are still sitting on your ass.

Notice the appeal to emotion ("C'mon, guys, who can consider my one skewed example of a video game a sport?"), the moving goalpost argument ("Moving your fingers doesn't count"), the application of "physical" into a definition that does not include it, the appeal to "it's not fun to watch" --

Actually, stop noticing. Especially if you have a sliver of intellect because, if so, your brain probably burns right about now.

Sure it is competitive and can be entertaining to watch while involving both strategy with skill, but no it's not a sport

You don't have teeth. Also, you are not a mammal; you are a plant. Even though you totally have teeth and are a mammal, I'm saying otherwise, and expecting to get taken seriously.

CA: The competitors are in physical world.
CCA: The competition, (the one that people watch) happens in digital world.

Wrong. The competition is between competitors. By your logic, the competition in soccer is happening between the surface of the ball and air. The in-game avatars are not moving on their own.

That you actually think your counter argument is valid is laughable. Actually, by your logic, you never argued; the bits on the Escapist's SQL Database did.

Jesus flippin' Christ, there's more from you:

CA: Smashing keyboard is hard work and requires extensive training.
CCA: Everything can be improved through extensive training but, for example, cooking is not considered sports.

This is a strawman of MovieBob proportions.

By your reasoning:

CA: Driving a car requires attention to detail.
CCA: Everything acquires attention to detail, but, for example, buying clothing is not considered driving.
CCCA: Thanks for actually addressing the point, jackass.
CCCCA: I ARE SO SMEART.

CA: You are stupid

You certainly are.

I agree with you, but being rude doesn't really help your point. Cut the Ad Hominem.

My being rude, or polite, is wholly irrelevant. Look at the posts in this thread: people are trying to claim their personal opinions are valid in a purely objective discussion.

This is no different than Monster Cable enthusiasts saying "in our opinion, Monster Cables sound better!" when not only is there zero evidence supporting such a claim (and a claim it is, not an opinion) but much evidence against from skeptics, pointing out the flaws in said claim.

What I actually should be doing is ignoring this whole thread, but I'm a petty guy, so I see dudes spewing drivel and I figure I have to respond, in the hopes of one or more "on the fence" dudes seeing this, going "man those 'it ain't a sport because of rules I'm going to pull out of my ass and change on a whim' guys are full of it," and the world being a slightly better place otherwise.

Also, pubes. Tons and tons of pubes.