Retro Gaming itself is nostalgia. When you play older games; you either come in guns-a-blazing as far as enjoyment or you don't. I find that older games have a far more solid storyline than some of the games released today. That said; not every retro game can be enjoyed. A perfect example is "The Adventures of Dr. Franken". A game that even got a sequel on the Super Nintendo about Frankenstein who goes on vacation but has all his body-parts shipped seperately. You must get through the levels without getting noticed or harmed as you collect yourself {hardy har har}. You are a doctor it seems, but the overall game is quite weak.
Can retro games hold up WITHOUT the nostalga?
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Some can, I don't even have nostalgia for the series and I think the old Fallout games are some of the best on my computer. Others however not so much, old shooters like Doom for example, it was fun when I was a kid, I don't know what happened but I played it recently and it wasn't nearly as good as I remembered.
i need to have a hardcore sit down and do that myself, i tried once and i swear the damn game crashed my hard drive (literally i got done playing it for about 20 minutes and exited the game and my pc froze and crashed, which had never done it before on any other game)Zhukov said:
if you remember, let me know how that goes for you (or is going), i want to attempt the game but after last time i'm holdin off on it
OT:
most games can, however there are PLENTY that suffer, and generally when speaking to someone who hasn't played the game i warn them ahead of time "the graphics haven't held up" or "the inventory is shite, so bear through it" or something of that sort.
Yes. Unless you are one of the new generation of gamers where graphics are a complete deal maker or breaker.
Most old classic games have great gameplay and level design and they more than hold up to alot of modern games.
Most old classic games have great gameplay and level design and they more than hold up to alot of modern games.
Yes they can, but it really depends on the game. For example, pretty much any Final Fantasy game before VII holds up extremely well, with VI and IV being the best examples of this(both of which I've discovered for myself within the last two years). Another perfect example is the Donkey Kong Country series. I have yet to introduce someone to that series who hasn't had fun with it. You also get the N64 gems like Banjo-Kazooie and Banjo-Tooie, DK64, Mario 64,Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask.
For games that are truly good games, they can withstand the test of time. I personally believe that is the true merit of a good game, when you can look at a new game and say something along the lines of, "Well I COULD play the new Call of Duty game, but why would I when I can play Final Fantasy VI instead?"
For games that are truly good games, they can withstand the test of time. I personally believe that is the true merit of a good game, when you can look at a new game and say something along the lines of, "Well I COULD play the new Call of Duty game, but why would I when I can play Final Fantasy VI instead?"
I think what it boils down to is 'was the game actually good'. Looking back through my games library, I have a lot of games that I don't mind playing through again, or which I enjoyed... and more than a couple of gimmicky games, or games that otherwise stand out as having been 'passable' or 'acceptable'. It's the difference between 'this game knocked my socks off' and 'this game was an enjoyable way to kill a few hours every couple of days'.
Any game that stood largely on its graphics or gameplay twelve years ago isn't going to be as impressive now, because we've moved on. Storytelling, challenge-based (often twitch) games, and puzzles stand the test of time because at their heart the fundamentals of what made them good hasn't significantly changed. About the only downside that such a game would have in the contemporary market is that the secrets or twists have often become common knowledge, rather than a difficult thing to discover.
This is especially true for a more-or-less dead medium of adventure games. It takes a lot of discipline not to look up how to solve the inscrutable puzzles, when it's a quick google search away.
Any game that stood largely on its graphics or gameplay twelve years ago isn't going to be as impressive now, because we've moved on. Storytelling, challenge-based (often twitch) games, and puzzles stand the test of time because at their heart the fundamentals of what made them good hasn't significantly changed. About the only downside that such a game would have in the contemporary market is that the secrets or twists have often become common knowledge, rather than a difficult thing to discover.
This is especially true for a more-or-less dead medium of adventure games. It takes a lot of discipline not to look up how to solve the inscrutable puzzles, when it's a quick google search away.
The original Baldurs Gate series is still probably the best way to play D&D on your computer. It give such an amount of freedom and variation when it comes to the character creation, and the story is just what you might read when you begin on a long book-series. It has one story-line spreading across two games with one expansion each.
No loose ends. The game starts and ends with you.
Though I do feel a lot of nostalgia for it, I honestly think that it is the best PC Role-Playing-Game out there.
No loose ends. The game starts and ends with you.
Though I do feel a lot of nostalgia for it, I honestly think that it is the best PC Role-Playing-Game out there.
Absolutely. I make it a point to play the original Spyro the Dragon trilogy once a year or so and the game holds up damn near flawlessly. The level design is still fantastic, the art design is gorgeous, the gameplay is absurdly polished and all three games simply ooze charm. The ONLY thing that could stand improvement would be a visual and audio upgrade to more modern standards, but everything else is perfect the way it is.
Merely a few years ago when someone gave me an old NES they didn't want anymore did I get and play the game "Kid Kool and the Quest for the Seven Wonder Herbs". I had never played it before (nor even heard of it) compared to my youth playing Mario/Mario 2 and... well, that was about the only NES I really played as a kid.
Anyways, when I played Kid Kool, I loved it. It was incredibly hard, the controls weren't the best, but the game was fun and I spent countless hours just playing the game and trying to get as far as I could.
I still play it on occasion via an Emulator (as I lost my copy in a move along with my NES) and I found it quite funny when the AVGN did a video on Kid Kool and him (along with almost all the comments) agreed it was a horrible game. I love the game and it was in recent years that I played it (around the same time I had been playing games like Halo 3 and SSBB).
So I'm pretty sure the most nostalgia in that is the fact I was playing an NES.
Anyways, when I played Kid Kool, I loved it. It was incredibly hard, the controls weren't the best, but the game was fun and I spent countless hours just playing the game and trying to get as far as I could.
I still play it on occasion via an Emulator (as I lost my copy in a move along with my NES) and I found it quite funny when the AVGN did a video on Kid Kool and him (along with almost all the comments) agreed it was a horrible game. I love the game and it was in recent years that I played it (around the same time I had been playing games like Halo 3 and SSBB).
So I'm pretty sure the most nostalgia in that is the fact I was playing an NES.
The key to an old game holding up is gameplay. Take Super Mario Bros. for example. The gameplay is so clean, simple, and easy to pick up that Nintendo has recently released not one but TWO new games featuring the same gameplay.
Now take a look at another icon, Duke Nukem. When Duke Nukem 3D came out, it was a revelation. It introduced many incredible techniques to the FPS world. But look at Duke Nukem Forever, which seems stale, old, and cheesy. The game refused to effectively learn from what games like Halo, Battlefield, and even Call of Duty had added to the genre. Instead it took a couple of elements (regenerating health) from it and kept the cheesy, stale, same-old Duke character that was such a breath of fresh air in 1998, and 13 years later, he comes off as an asshole. And, yes, I realize that he is indeed supposed to be that, but nowadays that act cannot hold up.
So I restate my original statement; the key to an old game holding up is gameplay. If a games core (the gameplay) is great, then it will hold up. This resulting in many games, like Super Mario Bros., Metroid, and even Final Fantasy standing the test of time.
Now take a look at another icon, Duke Nukem. When Duke Nukem 3D came out, it was a revelation. It introduced many incredible techniques to the FPS world. But look at Duke Nukem Forever, which seems stale, old, and cheesy. The game refused to effectively learn from what games like Halo, Battlefield, and even Call of Duty had added to the genre. Instead it took a couple of elements (regenerating health) from it and kept the cheesy, stale, same-old Duke character that was such a breath of fresh air in 1998, and 13 years later, he comes off as an asshole. And, yes, I realize that he is indeed supposed to be that, but nowadays that act cannot hold up.
So I restate my original statement; the key to an old game holding up is gameplay. If a games core (the gameplay) is great, then it will hold up. This resulting in many games, like Super Mario Bros., Metroid, and even Final Fantasy standing the test of time.
Some of them most certainly can. I only got Baldur's Gate(1 & 2), Avernum: Of Steamworks and Magic Obscura Of Planescape: Torment last year, they are all really, really good, though I must admit they were difficult to get into. I only recently bought Duke Nukem 3D and that is actually one of the most fun shooters I've played in ages. I bought a collection of Sega Mega Drive(Genesis) games for my Xbox 360 and most of them are great, admitedly some (Sonic, Streets of Rage) I'd played before but many of them I'd never even heard of.
I also play some retro-style games that aren't actually old enough to be retro. Ever heard of Geneforge, Avernum, Avadon: The Black Fortress? All of these are made by Spiderweb Software who's recent games have been isometric games and, admitedly, I played the first two Geneforge games on RealArcade years ago but the rest have no nostalgia involved, I've found all of them to be really good, though Avernum 1-3 have rather poor interfaces.
I still have the original Rayman and The Adventure Of Lomax(a spin off of Lemmings) that are still fun and play well.
Depending on whether you consider 'retro' to be old (at least 5/7+ years old) games or if you just consider as previous generation games I could easily list plenty more, but those are some I'd consider definitely retro.
Oh and of course there's games like Deus Ex, Daggerfall, Conker's Bad Fur Day and so on, but I'm guessing they'll have been mentioned more than enough already.
I also play some retro-style games that aren't actually old enough to be retro. Ever heard of Geneforge, Avernum, Avadon: The Black Fortress? All of these are made by Spiderweb Software who's recent games have been isometric games and, admitedly, I played the first two Geneforge games on RealArcade years ago but the rest have no nostalgia involved, I've found all of them to be really good, though Avernum 1-3 have rather poor interfaces.
I still have the original Rayman and The Adventure Of Lomax(a spin off of Lemmings) that are still fun and play well.
Depending on whether you consider 'retro' to be old (at least 5/7+ years old) games or if you just consider as previous generation games I could easily list plenty more, but those are some I'd consider definitely retro.
Oh and of course there's games like Deus Ex, Daggerfall, Conker's Bad Fur Day and so on, but I'm guessing they'll have been mentioned more than enough already.
I replayed the original doom not so long ago... fantastic game, really worked as it was.
Duke Nukem 3d on the other hand.... well, great gameplay for the most part, but the humour made me really uncomfortable at times.
Duke Nukem 3d on the other hand.... well, great gameplay for the most part, but the humour made me really uncomfortable at times.
Depends entirely on how you define "hold up".
In purely graphical terms? No, not really. That's never going to happen, there've been too many upgrades and improvements. So if shininess is what makes or breaks a game for you, then best stay away from the retro counter.
However.
If it's story, characterisation or gameplay mechanics that float your boat, then yes. Yes they can. If proof is required, go to the App Store and see how many old games are being released for handheld devices. Sure, Sonic The Hedgehog might look like arse on your spanking new 50" plasma TV, but on a 4" mobile phone display, it's actually not bad.
If playing an isometric or top down RPG where you can only move up, down, left or right doesn't bother you, then go for it. There's a thread elsewhere on here about Ultima IV being downloadable for free, and the first thing I thought was "sweet!". It was a great game, controls were easy to handle, story was deep, there was so much in there, yet you could probably fit the code for it onto a pocket calculator these days.
So it's a personal thing. I'm happy to play old games still. But then, I am old, so...
In purely graphical terms? No, not really. That's never going to happen, there've been too many upgrades and improvements. So if shininess is what makes or breaks a game for you, then best stay away from the retro counter.
However.
If it's story, characterisation or gameplay mechanics that float your boat, then yes. Yes they can. If proof is required, go to the App Store and see how many old games are being released for handheld devices. Sure, Sonic The Hedgehog might look like arse on your spanking new 50" plasma TV, but on a 4" mobile phone display, it's actually not bad.
If playing an isometric or top down RPG where you can only move up, down, left or right doesn't bother you, then go for it. There's a thread elsewhere on here about Ultima IV being downloadable for free, and the first thing I thought was "sweet!". It was a great game, controls were easy to handle, story was deep, there was so much in there, yet you could probably fit the code for it onto a pocket calculator these days.
So it's a personal thing. I'm happy to play old games still. But then, I am old, so...
I guess it's pretty subjective.
I find games like Decap Attack and Comix Zone to still be amazing, yet I've really lost my love for classic Sonic.
As mechanics change, we forget why the reasoning behind it, and why they now seem essential. Going back to play games from the past can remind us of the huge problems we'd forgotten about that were the norm at the time you originally played them.
The best way to decide would be to hand them to someone who doesn't have that level of nostalgia with the game. See how they play it, and find out what they think of it.
I find games like Decap Attack and Comix Zone to still be amazing, yet I've really lost my love for classic Sonic.
As mechanics change, we forget why the reasoning behind it, and why they now seem essential. Going back to play games from the past can remind us of the huge problems we'd forgotten about that were the norm at the time you originally played them.
The best way to decide would be to hand them to someone who doesn't have that level of nostalgia with the game. See how they play it, and find out what they think of it.
I'm gonna throw out a title I bet maybe four of you at most have played: The Goonies 2 on NES. I didn't start playing games until Christmas of 2000 when I got a PS1, and I *still* have a blast playing that. I still haven't figured out how to beat it, but it's so much fun to simply explore and see what you can find, and the controls are tight and the gameplay is solid. Damned NES controller always hurt my hands after a while, though.
MegaMan Legends. It's essentially the earliest example I've seen of a third-person shooter that works. You can easily see the progression from Legends to, say, Star Wars: Battlefront, up to modern third-person games like Dead Space.
The first two Medal of Honor games have aged, graphically, about as well as roadkill, but they have an available control scheme that mirrors modern game controls and it makes extensive use of cover. Both are excellently challenging: even if the enemy AI is half-retarded, they're mean shots, and make excellent use of cover. The disguise missions are genuinely tense, as well.
The controls for the first Blood can be configured to a WASD modern style, and it's a goddamned blast and a half.
The same can also be done for Quake and Quake II. They're both excellent circle-strafing action, especially the little jumping dudes and blue slime molds in the first.
I was gonna just toss in Unreal and its follow-up, Unreal Tournament after Quake and Quake II, but they're both badass enough to get their own mention. Unreal, in particular, gets mention for being well and able to tell an excellent story without a single cutscene and only one scripted event, which essentially consists of a locked door. The expansion pack has a shitty voice-over at the end of each map, though, so watch it.
And the first three Spyro games are all still fantastic. The first Spyro actually gets credit for being the one game that made me a gamer (You know what I got with my PS1 that Christmas? Star Ocean: The Second Story and Gran Turismo 2. Great way to introduce someone to gaming), and still gets credit for being a straightforward, fun game. The second had some of the best level design and boss fights in the series, and the third one had a space monkey with a laser. To hell with any Spyro game outside the Insomniac trilogy.
The first Turok is still exceptionally playable, and offers a good bit of straightforward shooty fun. The second one was fun, but made a bit clunky by the framerate. The third one and the multiplayer spinoff were shitty. The default controls also take getting used to, but they're worth it.
Also, Perfect Dark on the '64 makes me want access to a 360. 'Cos that, with modern controls? Fuckin' A.
Edit: Holy crap, that turned into a wall of text. My bad! ^^;
MegaMan Legends. It's essentially the earliest example I've seen of a third-person shooter that works. You can easily see the progression from Legends to, say, Star Wars: Battlefront, up to modern third-person games like Dead Space.
The first two Medal of Honor games have aged, graphically, about as well as roadkill, but they have an available control scheme that mirrors modern game controls and it makes extensive use of cover. Both are excellently challenging: even if the enemy AI is half-retarded, they're mean shots, and make excellent use of cover. The disguise missions are genuinely tense, as well.
The controls for the first Blood can be configured to a WASD modern style, and it's a goddamned blast and a half.
The same can also be done for Quake and Quake II. They're both excellent circle-strafing action, especially the little jumping dudes and blue slime molds in the first.
I was gonna just toss in Unreal and its follow-up, Unreal Tournament after Quake and Quake II, but they're both badass enough to get their own mention. Unreal, in particular, gets mention for being well and able to tell an excellent story without a single cutscene and only one scripted event, which essentially consists of a locked door. The expansion pack has a shitty voice-over at the end of each map, though, so watch it.
And the first three Spyro games are all still fantastic. The first Spyro actually gets credit for being the one game that made me a gamer (You know what I got with my PS1 that Christmas? Star Ocean: The Second Story and Gran Turismo 2. Great way to introduce someone to gaming), and still gets credit for being a straightforward, fun game. The second had some of the best level design and boss fights in the series, and the third one had a space monkey with a laser. To hell with any Spyro game outside the Insomniac trilogy.
The first Turok is still exceptionally playable, and offers a good bit of straightforward shooty fun. The second one was fun, but made a bit clunky by the framerate. The third one and the multiplayer spinoff were shitty. The default controls also take getting used to, but they're worth it.
Also, Perfect Dark on the '64 makes me want access to a 360. 'Cos that, with modern controls? Fuckin' A.
Edit: Holy crap, that turned into a wall of text. My bad! ^^;
I think the more discussion worthy question to this topic would be 'which games hold up without nostalgia?" We can all certainly site classics that we never played until recently that still really impressed us, so I think the initial response to the questions is almost always going to be yes (and no I didn't not read every post to see if that's true or not, I skimmed).
To me, the Megaman games still hold up as fun, challenging, and rewarding at the same time. Also the Final Fantasy series still holds up for me. I'd never played them as a kid because I didn't have the attention span needed to keep myself interested, but as an adult I went back and played the first few Final Fantasies on the Virtual Console (the one thing the Wii did well) and loved them.
So to answer the original question in a fashion similar to the responses I've read: "it depends on the game."
To me, the Megaman games still hold up as fun, challenging, and rewarding at the same time. Also the Final Fantasy series still holds up for me. I'd never played them as a kid because I didn't have the attention span needed to keep myself interested, but as an adult I went back and played the first few Final Fantasies on the Virtual Console (the one thing the Wii did well) and loved them.
So to answer the original question in a fashion similar to the responses I've read: "it depends on the game."