Can we agree on this? Biggest problem in the world today.

[Nomad]

So in other words you want me to rewrite some other nations history and pretend what would have been different if it was atheist? And this is scientific is it?

Yes. If you use comparisions between different states, there are hundreds of other factors that make the difference between them, making a fair comparision based only on the religious state impossible.

Secular nation = USA, UK, France, Germany, Holand, Norway, Finland, Canada, Australia, Spain. Many religions in those nations, but they are secular. Secular is state neutrality on religion. Not trying to sponsor atheism. They tolerate religions in their countries.

Yes, they tolerate religions. Hence why I said promote atheism through information rather than oppression. Banning religion is oppression. Secular nations promote atheism by teaching scientific values and theories in school as fact, and religious beliefs as just that - beliefs. For example, secular nations teach the theory of evolution as fact. This goes against the beliefs of many religions, meaning they promote atheism. State secularism is state atheism without oppression.

Communist Albania, The Soviet Union, The People's Republic of China, Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge, Mongolian People's Republic, North Korea.

Any more?

Ohh... The People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Democratic_Party_of_Afghanistan]

As someone else said a few posts back, "corelation does not equal cause". Atheism was not these countries' main policy, it was an afterthought, a policy of many. I might as well argue that the reason for Great Britain's, France's and the US' success is the fact that their top politicians and lawmakers used to wear wigs all the time. It has nothing to do with it, but it's a fact that's true for all examples given. Therefore, according to your logic, the reason for their success is their wigs.

No, promoting atheism in a country does not necessarily require oppression. You can, as I stated numerous times, also promote atheism gradually through information. Also known as secularism.

 

[xxcloud417xx]

Is it a modern day Roman Empire? I'd disagree with that.

and I would agree with this.

 

[Eldritch Warlord]

Now that I think about it aside from both being affluent and powerful European societies the US and Rome have almost nothing in common.

Er, since when was America European?

Since millions of Europeans founded colonies in America.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

Now that I think about it aside from both being affluent and powerful European societies the US and Rome have almost nothing in common.

Er, since when was America European?

Since millions of Europeans founded colonies in America.

Maybe the word "western" would work better than European.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

I would say pride is the world's biggest problem. Because we think we are better than others, we kill others for power and money. We destroy the environment cause we think we can own Mother Nature, and we spend too much cause we want more. I think Earth's biggest problem is just our hubris. We think we are superior to everything.

I tend to believe that pride is totally acceptable if it´s balanced by equal amount of humility. It´s perfectly OK and natural to take pride in one´s work. It´s the disturbing lack of humility that makes pride a negative feeling.

I agree with you on your statement. I think pride that's balanced by humility is good, but an excess of pride is bad. It reminds me of the Golden Mean by Aristotle. Always keep things in balance, don't let one side get too big.

Mother Nature IS the enemy though ... and she should be placated as soon as possible for the greater good of Humanity. In order to free ourselves from Mother Nature's amoral grasp we must start genetically creating our OWN nature ... one born of Humanity, to resemble humanity in our image ... and to create Humanity free of Mother Nature .... Become as God of all realms we should become the Overlords of Life and Death

o.o We're all wasting our time if we dont try to become God anyways, for it's the highest and most unobtainable goal ... so we must strive to achieve it regardless of it's cost... @.@

That's why Pride is important, without a complete disregard to our natural self, we cannot remedy our weakness and frailities.

Nature is supremely indifferent to whether you live or die ... and if humanity were to become like that, it would destroy all the benevolence that the human spirit is capable of ... thats the basis of pride, being different from most other animals o.o

 

[MentosIzzy]

I think that perhaps, the world?s biggest problem is a failure to truly dialogue, and to truly communicate (which involves both speaking, and listening) and (along those lines) a lack of empathy is to blame as well. I feel like this forum is an excellent example of one of the world?s greatest failings; in this thread I have seen roundabout arguments and a lot of bickering. While some might claim that this sort of arguing/exchange of ideas is a dialogue in itself, it really isn?t: what are we accomplishing here? When we refuse to listen, or to empathize with others, then it becomes all about propagating each of our individual agendas. Individually, I have seen that the atheists on this forum (and mind you not all of them, just a few) have been just as intolerant as the religious fanatics that they criticize. What is the root of this problem? Is it religion itself? No. It is a failure on both sides (atheist and theist) to listen. It is a refusal to stop screaming at each other (like the petulant child one poster claimed the US as) and to truly try to hear a side that we may disagree with. Maybe in listening there will be one common point, one thing everyone can truly agree on. Before someone jumps in and shouts ?I don?t think anyone will ever agree on anything? I would like to add that what I see in this forum as a common point, bickering and all, is a genuine fear of the state of the current world, and a genuine desire for change?isn?t that enough? Can?t we as human beings stop looking at people as atheist or theists, as US or Europeans or Asians, etc, etc, but instead look at each other as human beings, and as such listen to, respect, and dialogue with each other in a civilized manner? So I guess to end this (sorry that I rambled) that I think the main problem in the world today is our genuine failure to empathize and a failure to truly communicate with one another.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

Communist Albania, The Soviet Union, The People's Republic of China, Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge, Mongolian People's Republic, North Korea.

Any more?

Ohh... The People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Democratic_Party_of_Afghanistan]

As someone else said a few posts back, "corelation does not equal cause". Atheism was not these countries' main policy, it was an afterthought, a policy of many. I might as well argue that the reason for Great Britain's, France's and the US' success is the fact that their top politicians and lawmakers used to wear wigs all the time. It has nothing to do with it, but it's a fact that's true for all examples given. Therefore, according to your logic, the reason for their success is their wigs.

No, promoting atheism in a country does not necessarily require oppression. You can, as I stated numerous times, also promote atheism gradually through information. Also known as secularism.

Heh. You made my point for me. "corelation does not equal cause" - same goes for religion doesn't it?

You know those idiots who talk in the news about all the crime the GTA games cause? About all the school shootings being the responsibility of Maralyn Manson? You are doing the exact same thing when you blame religion for the terrible things that people do.

Fallacy. GTA hands you over a controller, says "hey, it's a game, do whatever, nobody is really getting hurt, it's a game...now beat that hooker with a baseball bat!", Manson does music...

...Religion hands you over a 2000 years old sci-fi story, copied, edited, translated and otherwise modified more times than god himself could count, originally written by people who saw invisible man in space and heard voices in their head, and tells you to live your life according to it. Tells you that if you don't, you go to hell, a place where you suffer for all eternity, which is sort of like a second life where you can't die and live forever and everything is conveniently vague and unexplained...

...And while you're at it ostracize, dehumanize, infra-humanize, beat, murder and burn these guys that think your hallucinations are wrong!

You are faced with a problem Calio - there are billions of religious people on earth, and the vast majority of them are not ostracizing, dehumanizing, infra-humanizing, beating, murdering, or burning the others.

Therefore your observations on religion are simply flawed.

 

[RedDiablo]

I would say pride is the world's biggest problem. Because we think we are better than others, we kill others for power and money. We destroy the environment cause we think we can own Mother Nature, and we spend too much cause we want more. I think Earth's biggest problem is just our hubris. We think we are superior to everything.

I tend to believe that pride is totally acceptable if it´s balanced by equal amount of humility. It´s perfectly OK and natural to take pride in one´s work. It´s the disturbing lack of humility that makes pride a negative feeling.

I agree with you on your statement. I think pride that's balanced by humility is good, but an excess of pride is bad. It reminds me of the Golden Mean by Aristotle. Always keep things in balance, don't let one side get too big.

Mother Nature IS the enemy though ... and she should be placated as soon as possible for the greater good of Humanity. In order to free ourselves from Mother Nature's amoral grasp we must start genetically creating our OWN nature ... one born of Humanity, to resemble humanity in our image ... and to create Humanity free of Mother Nature .... Become as God of all realms we should become the Overlords of Life and Death

o.o We're all wasting our time if we dont try to become God anyways, for it's the highest and most unobtainable goal ... so we must strive to achieve it regardless of it's cost... @.@

That's why Pride is important, without a complete disregard to our natural self, we cannot better our weakness and frailities.

Err, have you been reading too much Nietzche and his theory on the Ubermensch? Mother Nature doesn't need us, but we need Mother Nature. If we lose the environment, we can't survive. Even if we adapt, it won't be to long before we die as a species. That's why we have to take care of the planet.

 

[Eldritch Warlord]

Now that I think about it aside from both being affluent and powerful European societies the US and Rome have almost nothing in common.

Er, since when was America European?

Since millions of Europeans founded colonies in America.

Maybe the word "western" would work better than European.

Both Eastern and Western Europe are definitely "European" culturally. And this culture is apparent in the US, Canada, Australia, and to a lesser extent Israel and Latin America.

Aside from that Western can't be applied to Rome as the designation is by definition post-Roman.

The only applicable definition that could apply to both is "Catholic" civilization, which I thought was inappropriate seeing has how the US is primarily Protestant and the classic image of Rome is of pagans that violently persecute Christians.

The point is the US and Europe are similar enough socially to be lumped together without disagreement. Not to be confrontational but if you don't agree you obviously haven't taken a close look at China or Africa ever.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

I would say pride is the world's biggest problem. Because we think we are better than others, we kill others for power and money. We destroy the environment cause we think we can own Mother Nature, and we spend too much cause we want more. I think Earth's biggest problem is just our hubris. We think we are superior to everything.

I tend to believe that pride is totally acceptable if it´s balanced by equal amount of humility. It´s perfectly OK and natural to take pride in one´s work. It´s the disturbing lack of humility that makes pride a negative feeling.

I agree with you on your statement. I think pride that's balanced by humility is good, but an excess of pride is bad. It reminds me of the Golden Mean by Aristotle. Always keep things in balance, don't let one side get too big.

Mother Nature IS the enemy though ... and she should be placated as soon as possible for the greater good of Humanity. In order to free ourselves from Mother Nature's amoral grasp we must start genetically creating our OWN nature ... one born of Humanity, to resemble humanity in our image ... and to create Humanity free of Mother Nature .... Become as God of all realms we should become the Overlords of Life and Death

o.o We're all wasting our time if we dont try to become God anyways, for it's the highest and most unobtainable goal ... so we must strive to achieve it regardless of it's cost... @.@

That's why Pride is important, without a complete disregard to our natural self, we cannot better our weakness and frailities.

Err, have you been reading too much Nietzche and his theory on the Ubermensch? Mother Nature doesn't need us, but we need Mother Nature. If we lose the environment, we can't survive. Even if we adapt, it won't be to long before we die as a species. That's why we have to take care of the planet.

No human takes care of the planet, we're all a burden on it, but I see Nature, and Environment as two different things ... Nature is supremely indifferent to our survival. So we should combat nature.

Nature is already dictating our death ... super contagious diseases ... other animals ... our own 'natural' selves ... Humanity should rise above it ... not adapt .. but conquer. Why sleep in the bed of our enemy, when we can crush it with science and civilisation?

Nature is relentless, murderous and chaotic.

 

[Mrsoupcup]

Religion, I frankly blame that for the worlds downfall. Religion on a political, economical and 'insane people' level.

I'm probably more scared of Christianity these days than Islam. And that's coming from a soldier.

Religion is dangerous not only through the way it clouds the mind with faith, but also through the way it is used as a method social control. That's always been the purpose of religion.

Consumerism. Going out of your way to get things because you have to have them.

Not only that, but also paying money for goods and services that one could obtain themselves through a little effort. Most people, when they need something, will just go out right away and pay money for it.

I do it myself whenever I possibly can, not only to save money, but to exercise my mental and physical ability to be self-sustaining as a person. If society were to collapse right now, most people would be fucked simply because they wouldn't have a Kwik-E-Mart or grocery store to make an errand run to.

Humanity has always been a greedy war like race. I'm religious but I can preach all I wan't the world is still going to blow up one day.

 

[Lonan]

The biggest problem in the world IS the United States. We arm small nations that would be otherwise be harmless so they can fight proxy wars for us and it turns around to bite us and our allies in the ass, we rape the environment harder than anyone else does, we consume more resources ourselves than any other country in the world despite being nowhere near one of the largest countries, our people are ignorant of cultures external to ours, our leaders care more about winning elections and their own wallets than they do about the well-being of humanity or even the well-being of our own local population, our corporations and mass-media are closely in league with our government in order for each entity to make as big of a profit as they possibly can, and all the while our citizenry sits idly by and lets it happen.

If all of that does not make a country a threat to global security and stability then I don't know what does.

Honest words from a frustrated citizen, but I have to say that many of the aspects you name (corrupt politicians and media) also apply on many other countries, like for example most, if not all, of them. African dictatorships, Russia, Europe (oh, don't get me started on my homecountry ) and, of course, the far east. The only exception I know seem to be Luxembourg and Switzerland - but that might just be an impression because you don't hear any bad news from there.

Keep in mind that the the United States is supposed to be a moral country which rights all wrongs and does no ill. As the most powerful of the Western countries, leads the "free world" in it's endevours against evil (gag) and it supposedly is the epitomy of justice and righteousness HAHAHAHA oh dear.

 

[Nomad]

Heh. You made my point for me. "corelation does not equal cause" - same goes for religion doesn't it?

Yes. Yes it does. If you read my posts and respond to them, instead of reading other people's posts and attributing them to me, you'll see that's what I've been saying all along.

 

[Nomad]

Honest words from a frustrated citizen, but I have to say that many of the aspects you name (corrupt politicians and media) also apply on many other countries, like for example most, if not all, of them. African dictatorships, Russia, Europe (oh, don't get me started on my homecountry ) and, of course, the far east. The only exception I know seem to be Luxembourg and Switzerland - but that might just be an impression because you don't hear any bad news from there.

Add the nordic countries to the exceptions as well, if you're going to except Luxembourg and Switzerland.

Edit: Crap, sorry for the doublepost, meant to edit my last post, but forgot about it half-way through this one...

 

[Baonec]

People, as long as there are people there will be differences as long as there are differences there will be divides which cause confrontation and war...also idiots that get power.

 

[Lonan]

I would say pride is the world's biggest problem. Because we think we are better than others, we kill others for power and money. We destroy the environment cause we think we can own Mother Nature, and we spend too much cause we want more. I think Earth's biggest problem is just our hubris. We think we are superior to everything.

The roots of such thinking are in Christianity. It says that the earth belongs to humans, it says that everyone needs to multiply, and all that crap.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

Now that I think about it aside from both being affluent and powerful European societies the US and Rome have almost nothing in common.

Er, since when was America European?

Since millions of Europeans founded colonies in America.

Maybe the word "western" would work better than European.

Both Eastern and Western Europe are definitely "European" culturally. And this culture is apparent in the US, Canada, Australia, and to a lesser extent Israel and Latin America.

Aside from that Western can't be applied to Rome as the designation is by definition post-Roman.

The only applicable definition that could apply to both is "Catholic" civilization, which I thought was inappropriate seeing has how the US is primarily Protestant and the classic image of Rome is of pagans that violently persecute Christians.

The point is the US and Europe are similar enough socially to be lumped together without disagreement. Not to be confrontational but if you don't agree you obviously haven't taken a close look at China or Africa ever.

Nevermind. I just tend to think geographically.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

Heh. You made my point for me. "corelation does not equal cause" - same goes for religion doesn't it?

Yes. Yes it does. If you read my posts and respond to them, instead of reading other people's posts and attributing them to me, you'll see that's what I've been saying all along.

*sighs*

Yes. It does seem we have been agreeing. My sincere apologies for misunderstanding. My first post wasn't blaming atheism for anything, I was merely making the case that atheism is not some Shining New Truth(TM) and that religion is not the bogey man. I don't actually believe in god see. Quoted from myself in another thread... I am going to break a personal rule here, and explain one of my beliefs in a small, non-generalised way which is highly unspecific. I for one tend to think that if any higher power wanted us all to believe one particular thing, he she or it would have made sure we all knew precisely what that was. Since the distribution and variety of faiths running around human civilization since time immemorial isn't really consistent with that, I suspect that diversity is favored by whatever driving forces are at hand (whether that be human creativity, an evolutionary advantage to religiousity, or a number of supernatural entities bombing around making our lives difficult). Yes, diversity is a source of much conflict and hatred, but ultimately that source tyranical oppressors who are attempting to force people around to their way of thinking. Atheists have done this in the past too, just look at what happened in the Solovki special purpose camp.

One thing you are never going to do is force a uniform culture and theological belief system on humanity. History has taught us that. What we should be teaching instead is that just because the other guy thinks differently, that doesn't make him a threat. That doesn't make him "wrong". That should be the real goal of 'active' atheism, to clean up the crap that certain religious extremists spout, the John Hagees and the Jerry Falwells of the world. But in going after every aspect of religion in the way it has, this kind of atheism has become the very thing it professes to despise. So I defend religion in much the same way that a straight person would defend the rights of gays to get married.

 

[Lonan]

Is it a modern day Roman Empire? I'd disagree with that.

Too right, there's pretty much nothing in common. It's not even an empire (unless Hawaii counts?)...

Biggest problem - climate change?

The biggest problem is without a doubt climate change. When humans fight with each other, there is always a fast conclusion, as in a few years. The longest would have been the hundred years war, which lasted for 112 years. But global warming? It will last for millenia. The biological devestation caused by it will be felt for hundreds, even thousands of generations into the future. Hunger? Give me a break. If you really want to help people in Africa, don't turn their farmlands into deserts. I am amazed at how global warming is not considered the number one issue here. I was under the impression that this was an intellectual website. Apparently you people haven't read the Weather Makers by Tim Flannery, of his young adult version, "We are the Weather Makers." It should be mandatory reading for everyone. I'm quite serious.

 

[RedDiablo]

I would say pride is the world's biggest problem. Because we think we are better than others, we kill others for power and money. We destroy the environment cause we think we can own Mother Nature, and we spend too much cause we want more. I think Earth's biggest problem is just our hubris. We think we are superior to everything.

The roots of such thinking are in Christianity. It says that the earth belongs to humans, it says that everyone needs to multiply, and all that crap.

I agree with what your saying, but Christianity also says to take care of the earth.