Can we talk about the "friend zone" and "nice guys" for a moment?

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The Rainmaker

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I don't think either person in that situation has a right to get angry. The pain the person who gets friend-zoned feels often comes from the fact that the other person shows slight hints of attraction, which the other person takes incredibly serious. So yeah, don't give fake hints that you like someone, especially when you believe they like you.
 

Neaco

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Onjenae said:
look little boy i dont give a damn what you think honestly lol
if you're going to bother telling people your opinions, at least have some decency to listen to others

for instance after seeing how

Onjenae said:
one i find sexcually attractive the other i let him do my laundry then laugh at him thinking how lame this dude is thinkinhg im gonig to sleep with him just for being nice to me.
contradicts

Onjenae said:
I wish more women were like me I do not hang around or associate with males that call themselves nice guys which is ually code for pushover , cornball,creep,or just very unattractive socially awkard male
i can safely agree that you are

TheVioletBandit said:
extremely shallow, arrogant, hateful, and judgmental.
however, i do agree with some of what you say. "nice guys" are passive aggressive and usually get rejected. its a shame that so many exist and use the friend-zone as a façade for their behavior. perhaps they invented the friend-zone, perhaps not. but its there all people who fall into there and thats not cool.

while i can claim to have be (or been, if im improving) a "nice guy", i don't think i've ever cried friend-zone (i don't think the term existed then) but for people who are passive aggressive, it does feel that way. somehow i genuinely believed i was in the right, and it took a serious retrospect to realize just how pathetic my intentions were.
 

Xangba

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Starik20X6 said:
I've been friend zoned before, due to the way my mind worked at the time. Thus, I've worked out more or less how to minimise friend zoning. Girls, feel free to correct any wild misconceptions I've grown:

As far as I can tell, it's not about "girls like douchebags", it's "girls like confidence". Problem is, the douchiest people tend to be the most confident ones, thus being perceived as more attractive. You can be a nice person and still be confident. It's about not being a wimp, about not taking crap from anybody without spewing crap yourself. Also, you need to have a life and be your own person before she comes along. Despite what rom coms might tell you, you shouldn't need anybody to 'complete' you.
You, sir, get a cookie. Again, people get "friend-zoned" for a few reasons
1.she does not find you physically attractive
2.You have no confidence (which is killer in ANYTHING life throws at you)
3.You don't act romantic at all. Kind of hard for him/her to consider you in such a way if you don't present yourself that way at some point.
 

thespyisdead

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A week ago i would be whining, that friend zone just sucks. Now i will be happy for that.

now... if you are stuck in friend zone, just move on... and remember there are people in a less fair situation than you, so instead of bitchin about how bad your situation is, just find another girl...
 
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museofdoom said:
Do you realize how ridiculous whining about being "friend zoned" is? And that if you really wanna be a nice guy, that you should be nice to girls even if you don't want in their pants?
Ah the not-so-elusive friend zone. I'm a staunch opposer of the friend zone mainly because I just don't think it's fair to try and ***** out of a no and try and save it with a sentence. Has anyone, man or woman, who has used the friend-zone, thought that maybe they don't want to be friends after they've been rejected. It's kind of a dick move to think that "I still want to be friends," can save a friendship after you've possibly just ripped your friends heart out.

Just say "no, I'm not into you," and stop bitching out of it. Let them decide if they want to be friends with you.

Basically, the friend-zone is a zone reserved for the use of cunts only. Bite the fucking bullet once in a while and just say no.
 

Eamar

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captainfluoxetine said:
Eamar said:
Onjenae said:
The friend zone does not exist usually guys that get put in the friendzone are either losers or very unattractive no offense.
Nice. I'm female and have lots of male friends (I guess I can be a bit of a bloke sometimes :p ). None of them are losers or what I would consider unattractive. Some of them are in relationships. Men and women CAN be friends without there being an element of sexual attraction. I know this from personal experience.
Im bloody lost. Friend Zone? Does that just mean a guy and a girl being friends? Or one leading the other on romantically and then suddenly pulling back and being all 'noooo, we're just friends'?

Cos of course guys and girls can be friends. Im a bloke and I only have one male friend. In fairness thats probably why I get nowhere with girls. I know firsthand how bloody mental they all are.
You're right, they are separate things, but a lot of people seem to mix them up. What I was trying to say (admittedly not very clearly) is that if I found out that one of my male friends was attracted to me (and I was single), I would turn them down because they are my friends and I just can't think of them in "that" way. They have genuinely been "friend zoned." Therefore, contrary to what Onjenae was saying, the friend zone does exist and not everyone in it is a loser or unattractive. I did get a bit off-topic though.

Actually, while we're on the subject of friend zoning, few people seem to talk about the fact that guys can do it too. It's funny to look back on now, but my best friend and I were initially attracted to each other when we first met. However, since then we've got to know each other and he really is the best friend I've ever had. We look back on that initial attraction and laugh. We've both managed to friend zone each other :p

Apologies, that second paragraph's not really relevant to anything, but this thread made me think of it and it made me smile.
 

Xangba

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Since there seems to be several ideas of the "friend-zone" here's mine: Guy/girl is friends with someone. Said person begins to see them in a romantic way and believing there is a chance, most often due to comments from the other person such as "You're a great person!" or "Anyone would be lucky to be with you.". Said person attempts to pursue this, not actually asking them out from nowhere but by presenting themself as a romantic option, and is shot down, despite being what (s)he claims to want. The other way is someone who honestly rejects the friend to avoid any complications to the friendship, but from what I've seen that being the real reason is kind of rare.

In my view of it, it only becomes the "friend zone" (other than the short literal one I said above) after presenting yourself as a potential partner instead of a friend, and after some kind of indication from the other person that they think highly of you and may be interested. You can't blame a person for shooting you down that shows no interest whatsoever. I also think we need avoid making this out as such a bad thing, because if you were friends first and became romantically interested afterwards, then all the qualities you like are still there and you still have your friend. Endless moping around about it is what people don't like. That isn't saying it doesn't suck to have one-sided feelings, but don't make it seem like the world hates you for it. Pick yourself up, enjoy your friend, and get back out there.

EDIT: To clarify, there isn't really any blame to be had in these situations. That's just how it's going to be, and you can't blame someone for not being attracted to you the same way you are to them. Unclear signals and poor communication tend to cause the problems, so just be direct.
 

Sunrider

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Onjenae said:
lmaooo you must be one of the lsoers who stay getting friendzone by the ladies lmaoooo keep up with the good luck young man
Welcome to the Escapist. Let's see how long you last.

OT: I can't really say much on the topic. I've been "friendzoned" before, but I never really whine and ***** about it. As someone before me pointed out, whining is useless.
Also:

Just_A_Glitch said:
This is something that a girl should not ever say to a guy though if she knows the guy has romantic feelings for her. It serves no purpose and its really hurtful. Pretty much tells the guy that he's not good enough for her.
tobi the good boy said:
That's cool, Just don't complain when a guy says "No I don't want to be friends" to the whole "I think we should just be friends thing". If they were hoping for a purely romantic involvement and you have no intention of providing but instead offer an alternative that, from my observations, only seems to appeal to one party and causes pain on the other. Than they are well within their rights to stop being friends.

Some guys lose contact with their ex's because they couldn't provide on a romantic level. Same situation.
These two make a shitload of sense. Read them.
 

Phasmal

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Xangba said:
ElPatron said:
And again the Escapist sank in an argument about entitlement.

I thought most "friendzone" posts were supposed to be about girls who repeatedly commit the mistake of dating jerks.

I am talking about people stupid enough to start dating just because a guy paid her a beer while the proverbial "nice guy" is doing her laundry or something.

It has nothing to do with entitlement. It has to do with people too stupid to take a hint.
That was what I thought, didn't realize so many viewed it as the guys problem instead of the standard "She dates ass, gets fucked over, complains about no nice guys" thing.

But hey message out to you guys and gals in the "friend zone," your time will come around, and because you're the kind to be friends first you'll have some of the best relationships. Just can't let a few bumps trip you up.
My experience of being on the girl end of the friend zone thing was nothing to do with me `dating asses` but more to do with me not dating the certain ass who had decided being my friend entitled him to more.
The guy in this situation will generally moan about the girl's boyfriend `being an ass` even if he has never met him or heard anything about him, because they assume that to be so.

It's just creepy the way guys go `She shouldn't be dating him, she should be dating me` as if they know what is best for someone else. They don't.

It generally is the guy's problem. It is horrible to have someone you thought of as a friend spring something like that on you, and even worse to have to try and let them down gently. I'm not saying you can't be friends before you go out, but hiding your feelings and then suddenly coming out with them is an awful awful idea.
 

Xangba

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Phasmal said:
Xangba said:
ElPatron said:
And again the Escapist sank in an argument about entitlement.

I thought most "friendzone" posts were supposed to be about girls who repeatedly commit the mistake of dating jerks.

I am talking about people stupid enough to start dating just because a guy paid her a beer while the proverbial "nice guy" is doing her laundry or something.

It has nothing to do with entitlement. It has to do with people too stupid to take a hint.
That was what I thought, didn't realize so many viewed it as the guys problem instead of the standard "She dates ass, gets fucked over, complains about no nice guys" thing.

But hey message out to you guys and gals in the "friend zone," your time will come around, and because you're the kind to be friends first you'll have some of the best relationships. Just can't let a few bumps trip you up.
My experience of being on the girl end of the friend zone thing was nothing to do with me `dating asses` but more to do with me not dating the certain ass who had decided being my friend entitled him to more.
The guy in this situation will generally moan about the girl's boyfriend `being an ass` even if he has never met him or heard anything about him, because they assume that to be so.

It's just creepy the way guys go `She shouldn't be dating him, she should be dating me` as if they know what is best for someone else. They don't.

It generally is the guy's problem. It is horrible to have someone you thought of as a friend spring something like that on you, and even worse to have to try and let them down gently. I'm not saying you can't be friends before you go out, but hiding your feelings and then suddenly coming out with them is an awful awful idea.
Well yeah, like I said a couple times saying it from nowhere without first presenting yourself as a romantic option is pretty stupid and never works out. Also I never said the whole "She should be with me!" thing. I was referring, as you quoted, to when a woman gets screwed over by a guy and complains about not being able to find a good guy.
 

Scorpid

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I think in general men and women get too dramatic about relationships. Not every relationship needs to have a Romeo and Juliet beginning and a tragic misunderstanding of an end. And if a guy or gal gets rejected don't go pining after them like a lost puppy wanting a home. There 3.5 billion of each gender out there and the chances that you found the only pearl in all of them just for you (Luckily for you she lived in a 30 mile radius) is an absurd notion. Lady you're not incredibly special so if you find a guy that has qualities that you like, date him and see where it goes. And if dude she says no move on (be friends) and look past the women that live right beside you.

Also your shoe comparison is horrible. Men and women aren't shoes that have obvious traits observable from a cursory glance.
 

Phasmal

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Xangba said:
Well yeah, like I said a couple times saying it from nowhere without first presenting yourself as a romantic option is pretty stupid and never works out. Also I never said the whole "She should be with me!" thing. I was referring, as you quoted, to when a woman gets screwed over by a guy and complains about not being able to find a good guy.
Well I don't think thats a specifically bad thing.
Because generally, I don't think of my friends in a sexual or romantic way at all. So if I was complaining to a guy who was secretly all in love with me, if he had just presented himself as a friend I would have no idea.

Also, a guy `doing everything` for you is generally not attractive, its... kind of wimpy and strikes me as being manipulative. I'm probably going to get shit for saying that, but thats just how I think. Those guys tend to put the object of their affection on a pedestal, and thats just not good.
 

Hattingston

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I disagree that Nice Guys think their entitled to a relationship. Yeah, they talk about how they were friend-zoned, and how it sucks. That's because it DOES suck. If you're interested in a girl, and they aren't interested in you, it can hurt ego, and it can be really disappointing. I don't think most of them are thinking "Why doesn't she want to be with me? She OWES this to me," I think their disappointed and want to vent. The ones they vent to, their friends, are basically being asked to support them. They understand that it isn't reasonable to expect every girl they like to like them back, but they also feel that it's unfair that whenever they find someone they think they can be close to, they're pushed away.

tl;dr
In essence, I think nice guys are disappointed, not self-entitled.
 

Palademon

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Kasurami said:
Palademon said:
How about when they say "any girl would be lucky to have you"?
Can I be annoyed then?

I don't usually complain about the other things but this really gets to me.
That depends. Did you make your feelings clear to her at any point before or after that?
That's actually what female friends who I know aren't interested in me tell me whenever I start making jokes about being alone, not when I'm confessing feelings. I'm only really mentioning it because it's depressing. I actually got told it by a gay guy once too. I just find it depressing in that situation because they certainly don't like me that way and I don't care that they don't, but it sort of implies that girls are failing simple logic to not be attracted to me, which is both ridiculous, and if true would be even more depressing.

I actually like my jokes about loneliness.
When I met up with some friends, I met a few of their university friends and we walked around the city, then went back to one of their houses, sat on their bed, next to their laundry, ordered pizza, and funnily enough stumbled into sexual conversation.
I said "I've only known this girl for two hours, and I've already gotten to her house, seen her underwear, been on her bed, and discussed how good she is at giving head."
 

Daverson

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Personally, I blame the media.

Think about it, what's the end of almost every movie, book, TV show or pretty much anything else ever? The hero "gets the girl". This breeds an entitlement complex among kids, making them believe that if they're a "good guy" they deserve a woman. Fact is, these kids don't actually see their female "friends" as friends, I'd go as far as to say they don't even really see them as people. They see them as a prize, something that society has set aside as a reward for them.

I don't think I need to tell anyone what's wrong with that way of thinking.
 

Xangba

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Phasmal said:
Xangba said:
Well yeah, like I said a couple times saying it from nowhere without first presenting yourself as a romantic option is pretty stupid and never works out. Also I never said the whole "She should be with me!" thing. I was referring, as you quoted, to when a woman gets screwed over by a guy and complains about not being able to find a good guy.
Well I don't think thats a specifically bad thing.
Because generally, I don't think of my friends in a sexual or romantic way at all. So if I was complaining to a guy who was secretly all in love with me, if he had just presented himself as a friend I would have no idea.

Also, a guy `doing everything` for you is generally not attractive, its... kind of wimpy and strikes me as being manipulative. I'm probably going to get shit for saying that, but thats just how I think. Those guys tend to put the object of their affection on a pedestal, and thats just not good.
Eh I should hope you don't get too much hate for saying someone shouldn't be put on a pedestal. But the "doing everything" is just something I do for all my friends regardless. I was raised as that small-town farmboy and it's just kind of my upbringing to do whatever you can for your friends.