Can we talk about the "friend zone" and "nice guys" for a moment?

[Cowabungaa]

So when a girl says, "I wish I could find a guy like you" it means she likes your qualities, but isn't attracted to you.

I don't get the friendzone whining either, but this I must protest against. I can completely understand why something like that causes confusion with some guys. Because aren't your qualities what ultimately matters in the end, especially when thinking long-term?

Also, it's not always easy to just be friends with someone you had (deep) romantic feelings for.

 

[A.I. Sigma]

It's been very rare that I've seen the typical romcom "just realized what was right in front of my face, now I'm crazy in love" trope play out in real life. People (male and female) certainly shouldn't count on that happening.

That happened to me recently, oddly enough.

 

[saphirekosmos]

Figured I'd drop my 2 cents on the subject:

I'll be honest and admit I probably fall into the category of the stereotypical "Nice Guy". I have not had a lot of relationships (only 1 short lived on in fact) and thus am not well versed at the whole dating game thing. So for me it is hard to simply go up to a woman and ask her out. I also personally don't want to deal with a ***** so I like to get to know them at least a little bit first. That said I don't feel that they should like me back if I am nice to them or any of that BS. That is simply creepy and entitled. The few times I have asked someone out after befriending them I have been shot down. I am also still friends with pretty much all of them.

Though this is because of how I "categorize" people in my head. For me if I am interested in a relationship with them I am also perfectly fine with a friendship with them.It is simple; they are not attracted to me for whatever reason. The reason doesn't matter, they do not want a romantic relationship with me. There is nothing wrong with that. Can't ay I blame them to be honest.

My general feeling is "Well that fucking sucks." Followed by a short bout (usually less than an hour or two) of letting myself feel sad/hurt and sometimes cry it out. At this point I simply move on with my life. No point in dwelling on it. I don't think it is anybodies "fault", it was simply a difference in tastes. And in the end if they would have made a good partner they would probably be a good friend. And I am always happy to have more friends. XD

 

[RedDeadFred]

I didn't know people actually did that... You aren't a nice guy if you stop being friends with the girl after she declines you.

You're just immature.

 

[Raven's Nest]

youtube=T_lh5fR4DMA][/

i jsut want to know how do i post youtube videos on here?

use the brackets [ and ] and place youtube=T_lh5fR4DMA inside them.

 

[Xanthious]

If it was as simple as 'talk to them', people wouldn't make threads on the internet about this kind of thing.

No it's obviously not as simple as talking to them but simply talking to them is a big hang up a lot of guys have. There are more fellas than you'd think that would sooner walk into a war zone than walk up and talk to a woman they find attractive. Another hang up is fear of rejection. I'd say those are probably the top two. If you can take a guy and teach him to approach women without pissing himself and not be terrified of rejection his odds of finding dates improves astronomically.

 

[Krantos]

When a girl says, "I wish I could find a guy like you" it means she likes your qualities, but isn't attracted to you. This does not make her a hypocrite, or a *****.

Actually, it does, but not in the way you're thinking. As others have pointed out, saying this is akin to saying "I like elements of your personality, but the rest of you doesn't live up to my standards." That's one of the most backhanded compliments you can give someone. It's ok to feel that way about someone, but you probably shouldn't say it (unless you want to insult them, I guess). At least find a better way to say it. Or if you absolutely have to stick to that line

Also, saying it to someone who is otherwise attached is fine, because the second half of that is not implied. In this instance the implication is "I like people like you, but you're already taken." I've actually gotten this quite a bit, having been married for 5 years now. I take as an outright compliment, even though I know most of the women (and yes, occasionally men) who say it wouldn't actually be interested in me if I was single. I'm not single, so it doesn't bother me.


In general, I think people need to be more honest with themselves when it comes to relationships. If a woman knows guys whose personality she likes, but isn't attracted to them, that's fine. However, she doesn't have the right to complain that "all men are bastards." No. Just the ones you're attracted to. It's ok, just be honest with yourself.

Likewise, a guy who complains that pretty women only want 'hunky' guys, really needs to examine the irony of that complaint. A little introspection goes a long ways.


The long or short of it is people are a lot pickier than they think they are. People (talking individuals here) generally have a set demographic they are interested in romantically. The reason they are interested in them can take various forms, but nevertheless, they exist. People defend this by calling it "standards." People hurt by it call it being shallow. Truth is, it's neither. It's simply what they are attracted to. It's no more noble or shallow than that.

This leads to a lot of people "Passing in the night." When they have no interest in each other, nothing is made of it. But when one is interested in the other and it isn't reciprocated, feelings get hurt and insults get thrown.

The trick is just to be honest (with yourself) about where your priorities lie.

 

[Shadowcreed]

problem is most nice guys generally go for the super hot girls i would have more sympathy for nice guys if they actually went for females on their level but they tend to chase after the gils every other guy wants to fuck and gets mad when they are rejected by that girl.

And on what exactly are you basing this? I consider myself to be a genuinely nice guy, and I've really got an issue with these stuck up 'super hot girls' as you call them. I honestly take to the personality a lot more than just looks. Being out of their level? By appearance standard maybe, though genuine nice guys are far more empathetic and concern themselves with higher motives than 'oh shes hot I wanna bang her lets act all nice to her and get entitled'
A real 'nice guy' isn't looking for seks, if he is, then he's not a 'nice guy', simple as that. The real deal wants a real relationship, someone he can drop his guard around and be with... Getting mad when a girl doesn't like you makes no sense. It's her choice after all and you have no entitlement to that whatsoever, she's free to make her own decisions. To be fair it is a natural reaction, you got hurt, you get upset, its misplaced but understandable. If you can't understand that a guy gets mad at you for rejecting him and inflicting a grievous wound to his heart by doing so (if he was genuinely interested and happy to be around you) then that's a pretty self-centred view you've got there. Of course there are these players around that only act like it and don't really give a damn, but if you truly got someone that is the real deal, then you've really scarred him if you let him down too harshly. I'm not saying you shouldn't turn him down if you want to - I'm saying, be sodding understandable to what this guy is feeling. Don't go and tell him that phrase is swirling trough my mind as I'm reading your posts, you sound like someone who would say such a thing.... To bring up a quote of yours;

Let him do his laundry and laugh

because he's really nice to you? What a real ***** thing to do, honestly. Its just exploiting someone.

by the way whats wrong with a girl wanting a hot guy ?? its hilrous how men are shallow as hel lbut god forbid a woman wants a man who is decent looking lmaooo men start to *****, whine and complain about it

There's nothing wrong with that. As far as my knowledge goes, many women tent to look at personality more than looks though there's no penalty for doing the opposite, maybe its a bit more shallow but hey, looks matter, obviously. As pointed out by someone else somewhere in this thread (sorry I forgot who and I reallllly dont want to go trough the whole thing again xD)women ***** and moan just as much when a guy they like turns them down, its a natural reaction.

men have all these crazy standards for how they want a women to look and stuff but the minute a man can fall into most females standards of attractiveness we become shallow bitches lmaoooo thats crazy to me

What's crazy is that you seem to think all men want you to be that super hot photo model they dream of and ejaculate too... Everyone makes their own standards and yes, there is a general agreed perspective as to what men like to see, though this by far does not count as big as you may think. Personality is high on the list(at least for me, I'm hoping this is the case for many other men out there..)and I don't care if you're the #1 in the beauty contest, if you're a bitchy little c*** then you can get the hell away from me and start growing up in the real world, I don't want a woman that things she's all that and acts like she's entitled to that hot guy she thinks she is because she looks all that awesome. You're generally comming off like that to me right now, you complain about ugly men chasing girls that you deem above their level? What makes you think you're high up that level list of yours?

 

[A.I. Sigma]

The problem with "frienzoning" is that guys believe kindness is not rewarded, and that instead of going for the nice guy, girls go for the guy who's more vitriolic and aggressive.

So he's only kind to her because he wants to be rewarded with a relationship? I hardly call that a good quality in any person.

And to stop being friends with someone you're romantically attracted to because she doesn't reciprocate is perfectly acceptable.
Why do you feel entitled to his friendship? He can be friends or not be friends with whoever he wants.

It's not about being entitled. If he wants to stop being friends, then that's fine, but it really only shows that he was in it for a fuck. Unless he just feels too embarrassed/awkward to talk to her after being rejected, in which case, that's understandable.

And maybe, if the only reason the guy hangs around you is because he wants to get into your pants, maybe you're a boring person.

Or maybe the guy is a dickhead for trying to do that in the first place. Don't blame the girl for something the guy is doing.

You also operate under the assumption that these hypothetical "nice guys" are only nice to girls they wish to fuck, which may or may not be true.

Not sure about OP, but I'm only referring to them within the context of this thread (and as a generalisation). Can't bet on how they treat other people, so I'm going to leave the unknown factor out of the discussion. Just thought I'd get that out there for you (if you reply) and future readers.

While the line "I wish I could find a guy like you" may not instantly make a girl a hypocrite and a *****, it definitely makes her callous and extremely thick-headed.

Does make her a bit of a dumbass, yes. Unless she's totally ignorant to his feelings...but yeah. Still stupid.

Your shoe analogy falls apart entirely.
If the red shoe isn't suited to your tastes, you don't think to yourself "Hmm I wish I could find some shoes like this."

Um. Yes, you do. Perhaps you want red shoes (a good quality), but the shoes you see right now have heels that are too high for you to walk in (bad quality). And they also have a certain kind of strap or buckle that you really don't want on the shoe (an unwanted quality). So you go looking for another pair of shoes that have the good quality (the colour), but without the shitty strap and the ridiculous heel. It's something that is similar to what you had in mind, but certain aspects of it prevent you from buying to it. So you don't want the shoes, but you're going to keep looking for shoes that have the qualities you want.

(and I hate describing people as shoes, so I hope I never have to use that analogy again)

It's completely illogical, dishonest, manipulative and insensitive to say that.

The analogy is, yeah. But it also gets across her point, so I'd call it successful, if rather shallow.

Again, I haven't seen anyone say this in real life either. These things seem to largely be an internet phenomenon.

Can agree with that. Except I've had the 'nice guys' in real life. They've just carried on being friends with me, but sulked about me not liking them despite me never giving the impression that we were anything more than friends.

The problem is that you're judging the issue from only your perspective, while not thinking of the one on the receiving end.

Isn't that why she posted here?

 

[VivaciousDeimos]

Ha only in this world is it creepy to love someone new and show it.

Uhhh, I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying; it looks like Phasmal's got it covered though. See below.

I'm saying they were talking about creepers cause of something I posted where someone was moaning I had friend-zoned them but they were acting like kind of a dick. So saying it was loving someone new is silly.

And if thats the way you wanna think about it, go ahead. All I can think is if you like a girl, make it known. If you wanna be a friend, be a friend, not a pretend-friend.

Pretty much this. And it's the "pretend-friend" people I have issues with. They are the creepers I was referring to.

 

[archvile93]

Why would going out for coffee be any clearer? It's not like I've never had lunch with friends before. Well it really doesn't matter, I only asked because I was curious, likely since I major in psychology. I gave up on relationships long ago.

I can't really explain why its clearer, it just is. It shows you are interested in them and it gives them a chance to assess you too. It's the ideal, casual first step for getting to know someone. How many friends have you made by stopping them on the street/shop/bus, striking up a conversation and inviting them out? Not likely very many.

Don't give up on relationships forever. Your what 18/19? Life is long and there are plenty of people out there who are just as shy, with just as much low self-esteem as you (assuming those were your barriers). Don't cripple yourself in the future by not learning how to spark a girl's interest now. It certainly won't be easier when you are 40 and suddenly want companionship.

I'm 22, got 2 more semesters, and the reason is because I never saw the point of spending all that money and time just for sex, and I never wanted companionship before. I figure if I really want it that badly I'll just hire a prostitute; it's quicker and even the most expesive ones are a lot cheaper. All that dating can really rack up the bills. I probably never will want it that much, but if for some strange reason I do it's out there.

 

[gideonkain]

The concept of "friend zone" really only exists in High School and a few years after. Heterosexual men and women learn that almost everyone of the opposite sex is a potential partner and they don't generally do all this "song and dance" BS to try to angle themselves into a position where they will be considered for a relationship. A man or woman who is confident in who they are (which unfortunately ONLY comes with age, not maturity) will not hide their feelings for extended periods of time like a high school kid.

 

[Shadowcreed]

You know these kind of forums would have been great in my younger years, it helps you get perspective. I hear you guys complain about the friend zone topics being tossed around forever and yet its the first one I come across. (admittedly not actively looking for it)

 

[Slayer_2]

Also, I've seen a few shallow bitches posting here, not going to say names, but if all you look for in a guy is attractiveness, guys you don't find attractive are lucky to dodge you, I feel bad for the ones you think are hot. Same goes for guys, of course. Anyone who judges someone based purely off their appearance isn't worth speaking to.

While there may have been some people who meant it in a shallow way, I'd just like to clarify that when someone talks about "finding someone attractive" in this context it isn't generally about looks. When I refer to not finding someone attractive, it means not thinking of them in a romantic way. I can't really explain it, but you must know the feeling- there are people, usually friends, who you just don't think of in that way. They can be traditionally good-looking or not, I don't find that has much to do with it. It's probably chemistry or some shit.

Basically, I think when most people in this thread have been referring to "attractiveness" they haven't meant purely physical stuff.

I understand there is a difference between someone being hot and being attractive to you, but a lot of these women used the term "ugly" to refer to physical attractiveness. Don't get me wrong, I greatly dislike the whiny "friend zoned" bullshit, but some of the ladies in this thread came across as very shallow, and general assholes.

 

[Kriptonite]

And now the girl is left without a friend, and the knowledge that you were only friends with her in hopes of getting in her pants.

Do you realize how ridiculous whining about being "friend zoned" is? And that if you really wanna be a nice guy, that you should be nice to girls even if you don't want in their pants?

"I wish I could find a guy like you"

Sorry for the little rant, I've just seen too many "friend zone" related memes and rage comics recently. 0___0

People dislike it because it hurts. Well, depending on your feelings and intent. If you just wanted a hole for...well, you know, then meh. I have no sympathy for guys that just want sex. But if you legitimately like her, her mind, her personality, her habits, etc. then finding out there is no romantic reciprocation is not fun. I, however, completely agree with you on almost all of your points though.

I don't know, I think aspiring to be a nice guy, or wanting to be a nice guy are strange attitudes. I only mean that you shouldn't want to be nice, you should just be nice[footnote]Easier said than done sometimes though.[/footnote]. But you're right, if you are indeed a nice guy, still being friends with her is the way to go. Side note: In my experience, if you truly like someone, just being around them (being friends is a perfect example) is a pleasure. Knowing that they are uninteresting in you romantically, while painful, just removes the uncertainty of whether or not they are interested.

The "I wish I could find a guy like you" part though, I don't agree with. There are certain things about certain people that are attractive or unattractive. If someone has attractive traits, they're attractive and vice versa. Yes certainly, social norms and expectations can and often do play a part, but still... Well, actually, I've personally been in situations where I've wondered why I do or don't like a particular female. So, I guess I just defeated my own point... Moving on!

I think the rage comics and memes are just utilizing a topic that has a wide audience that can relate, that's all (just my opinion though: take with a grain of salt).

Well, it seems I've effectively said almost nothing in several paragraphs. Hope you could understand what I was getting at. Well, I'll just sum it all up.

Don't look for sex only.
Be a nice guy.
If she's not interested in you, so be it. It sucks, yes, but that's no reason to be a
dick. To anyone.

 

[Raven's Nest]

I'm 22, got 2 more semesters, and the reason is because I never saw the point of spending all that money and time just for sex, and I never wanted companionship before. I figure if I really want it that badly I'll just hire a prostitute; it's quicker and even the most expesive ones are a lot cheaper. All that dating can really rack up the bills. I probably never will want it that much, but if for some strange reason I do it's out there.

My mistake, I assumed the 93 in your username was reference to date of birth (seemed likely).

Well I don't think it would take Sigmund Freud to work out that the problem isn't you don't know how to talk to and meet women. Its that you see woman as a disposable tool that only exist to serve you and make you feel better when you want it... That is really the complete and utter opposite of a healthy attitude.

I'll again assume you're from the states? As I know from a long thread about prostitution I did many moons ago, it seems that Americans are far more comfortable with using prostitutes than Brits are, which would explain the above paragraph. Now I'm not here to lecture you, if you want to have sex with a willing prostitute then go ahead. But if you ever seek a loving relationship, you ought to completely re-assess how you view women.

Dates needn't be expensive, neither do women. And there aren't many women worth dating who are solely interested in how much money you spend on them.

There isn't really much point in saying anything else because I don't know anything else about you.

 

[Blobpie]

A girl has the right to not like-like a guy. And i respect that, she is my friend after all.