Can we talk about the "friend zone" and "nice guys" for a moment?

[Eamar]

I understand there is a difference between someone being hot and being attractive to you, but a lot of these women used the term "ugly" to refer to physical attractiveness. Don't get me wrong, I greatly dislike the whiny "friend zoned" bullshit, but some of the ladies in this thread came across as very shallow, and general assholes.

Hmmm... maybe I've missed something, but I'd say there's only really one who's coming across that way to me. And in cases like that, especially when the word "ugly" is being thrown around, then yes I agree that is shallow and just as bad as the men this thread is supposed to be about. Personally, I always try to make a point of acknowledging that both genders are capable of equal amounts of assholery, especially where relationships are involved.

Don't despair of us Escapist ladies because of one or two bad apples mouthing off

 

[Sparrow]

Why is this directed toward men only? Women do this all the time as well! Hell, I've had a woman do it to me. She got super pissy that I wasn't attracted to her in the end, so we're no longer friends (plus, she clearly wasn't as nice as she made out she was).

Both genders are as stupid as each other.

 

[guidance]

I don't understand friendzone logic. Aren't you their friend to begin with? So if they say they like you as a friend, you are in the exact same place you were before. Also wtf is this being nice to get a girl bs. Your nice because your nice, if you have to be specifically be nice to have someone find you attractive, you are clearly looking at the wrong person.

Put it like this, being mean gets them to hate you.
Being nice gets them to talk to you.

 

[Mutie]

snip

I feel my views are highly relevant in regards to this topic. I live in the friend zone. I've been here for about 5 years now and, all said, it's comfortable enough. I have a large number of good friends as a result and wouldn't trade them i for a bit of evil, like many dudes I know. The reason for my being here is the simple fact that I get along better with women. Speaking generally, they're less prone to the tiresome tropes of the alphas and I find their qualities, both in terms of overt social interaction and covert manipulation, far easier to read.

The problem stems from the fact that, after a couple of years, you become a permanent "resident" of the friend zone. Though you may have no intention to try and pull any of your close friends therein, other females immediately associate you with the zone, removing you as a threat. This is FUCKING ANNOYING. There has been more than one occasion where I have been attracted to a woman and, knowing well the dangers of the friend zone, played my time carefully so as to make a move before risking giving the wrong impression. This has always been met with one of two responses: firstly, "I don't know you well enough" and secondly "I though we could just be friends". Do not get me wrong, I begrudge no one their right to choose their mate, but it is the assumption that I am not attracted to any women which frustrates me. The result? I've stopped trying. I have fully given up trying to find a mate. It has now been five years and I've glean more from befriending females than dating them. The majority of the girls I know treat their mates less than their friends anyway, so why bother? The world is twisted and dark and the friend zone makes celibates out of sexually inactive young men. That is how it is and how it always will be.

 

[archvile93]

I'm 22, got 2 more semesters, and the reason is because I never saw the point of spending all that money and time just for sex, and I never wanted companionship before. I figure if I really want it that badly I'll just hire a prostitute; it's quicker and even the most expesive ones are a lot cheaper. All that dating can really rack up the bills. I probably never will want it that much, but if for some strange reason I do it's out there.

My mistake, I assumed the 93 in your username was reference to date of birth (seemed likely).

Well I don't think it would take Sigmund Freud to work out that the problem isn't you don't know how to talk to and meet women. Its that you see woman as a disposable tool that only exist to serve you and make you feel better when you want it... That is really the complete and utter opposite of a healthy attitude.

I'll again assume you're from the states? As I know from a long thread about prostitution I did many moons ago, it seems that Americans are far more comfortable with using prostitutes than Brits are, which would explain the above paragraph. Now I'm not here to lecture you, if you want to have sex with a willing prostitute then go ahead. But if you ever seek a loving relationship, you ought to completely re-assess how you view women. I really don't see what other people have to offer me.

Dates needn't be expensive, neither do women. And there aren't many women worth dating who are solely interested in how much money you spend on them.

There isn't really much point in saying anything else because I don't know anything else about you.

Well to be fair I don't really see value in any kind of companionship, male or female, friendly or romantic. Also I never said I'd actually pay for a prostitute; so far I've been perfectly comfortable to go without. I was just saying it's a much quicker and cheaper alternative. I rarely talk with anyone unless it's relevant to some kind of goal I have, and stay indoors. I got TV and video games in here and so far there's never been anything beyond my home that I would consider enjoyable.

 

[Alexander Bonney]

You know, this works both ways too. I've seen girls get friend-zoned just because they're not 8/10s and the guy's too shallow to see how much she cares. But I guess that's not deception, is it? The girl's still the victim there, right? Double-standards, much?

Also, you know how many times I've been stringed on just because some girl is a sucker for attention? And then one week either a) she suddenly refuses to look me in the eye anymore, answers everything with brief two-word quips, and although she denies that anything is wrong and she's totally not upset about anything, she's with another guy a week later and now I know why she doesn't want to talk to me anymore, or b) she just starts talking about all of the dates she has lined up in-between more or less sexually harassing me but I'm just so fucking desperate I play along because I'm a sucker for attention too. Only difference is I was serious about it.

Just to clarify: I'm not trying to say girls are evil, the whole dating scene these days is honestly pretty fucking horrific all around is you ask me. It all stems from something. Some gene got through and all the good ones died out along the line. I don't know where. I wish I could fix it. I can't. Oh well.

 

[Slayer_2]

I understand there is a difference between someone being hot and being attractive to you, but a lot of these women used the term "ugly" to refer to physical attractiveness. Don't get me wrong, I greatly dislike the whiny "friend zoned" bullshit, but some of the ladies in this thread came across as very shallow, and general assholes.

Hmmm... maybe I've missed something, but I'd say there's only really one who's coming across that way to me. And in cases like that, especially when the word "ugly" is being thrown around, then yes I agree that is shallow and just as bad as the men this thread is supposed to be about. Personally, I always try to make a point of acknowledging that both genders are capable of equal amounts of assholery, especially where relationships are involved.

Don't despair of us Escapist ladies because of one or two bad apples mouthing off

I count two, but don't worry, I'm not a generalizing idiot. If I was, I'd have to claim my own gender as the "meaner" gender. After all, we have had Hitler, Stalin, etc. Gender isn't really a good indicator of assholery, people from both can be equally terrible

I'm just surprised that such shallow jerks lurk these forums.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

The secret is, just ask the girl. Don't be friends, don't wait or anything. Because she may like you to but if you act like a friend to her then she will treat you like one.

If you just want to be friends with her, fine. But if you really like her then just ask her out. If she says know then be a friend or leave, either way its better. No point starting a friendship when you want more. Believe me, i've been there.

 

[VivaciousDeimos]

Ha only in this world is it creepy to love someone new and show it.

Uhhh, I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying; it looks like Phasmal's got it covered though. See below.

I'm saying they were talking about creepers cause of something I posted where someone was moaning I had friend-zoned them but they were acting like kind of a dick. So saying it was loving someone new is silly.

And if thats the way you wanna think about it, go ahead. All I can think is if you like a girl, make it known. If you wanna be a friend, be a friend, not a pretend-friend.

Pretty much this. And it's the "pretend-friend" people I have issues with. They are the creepers I was referring to.

Do you hate them for it? Its not like they asked to fall in love, people fall in love for retarded reasons that make no sense, unfortunately not all of us are rico suave

Do I hate them for what, exactly? I think you're still kinda missing the point. Obviously people can't help how they feel, but they can control how they behave. The specific type of people I'm talking about are jerks. Do I hate jerks? Kind of. The people that I was referring to are those who become friends with a girl specifically to be romantically involved with her, but do so on the pretext of friendship. That doesn't make you a friend, it makes you an asshole.

Also, I feel I should point out that I don't have a problem with people who are friends with a girl and then develop feelings for her; that's legitimate. It happens. I also don't have a problem with people who are interested in someone and want to be friends first--hey I like you, let's get to know each other and see where this goes--because then at least you're being honest about your intentions.

 

[Gorrila_thinktank]

Please, Im the one who friends zones the ladies.

No, realy. Im the only male in my program's year. like 95% of the people I hang with are women-folk.

But on topic, I think that Guys and Gals have a diffrent understanding of 'friend'. For a dude a friend is a bro, someone who you would spend time with as a matter of course. They are your compadraies, the rest of your party. These are the people you take advice from and realy on. Ladies have that to, but they call this group their 'best freinds'. For them anyone who they dont hate are friends. A guy is 'freindly' with the same group that a girl would call friend. It seems like the the proplem is a misscomunication.

When a girl says "I just want to be friends" they are saying, "no, I dont hate you. I think your nice and I dont want you as an enemy, but I dont think we can be really close because [insert reason here]."

I honestly have no idea why this is, its somthing that ive noticed from interacting with two high density gender-homogenus groups. I think it might be that Tend and befreind thing thats been throw around.

what do you think everybody?

 

[ThePenguinKnight]

Oh my goodness how dare that biotch not have any romantic feelings towards you!! You weren't a jerk to her so you were entitled to a relationship with her! And since your plans to get a little action were in vain, you cease being friends with the girl. And now the girl is left without a friend, and the knowledge that you were only friends with her in hopes of getting in her pants.

Do you realize how ridiculous whining about being "friend zoned" is? And that if you really wanna be a nice guy, that you should be nice to girls even if you don't want in their pants?

So when a girl says, "I wish I could find a guy like you" it means she likes your qualities,but isn't attracted to you.

Are you sure that he was only friends with you to get into your pants? Because that is a rather dangerous and radical assumption. Some people can't stand being just friends with someone they have a deep affection for, you don't just shrug off longing for someone. You should be smart enough to know that telling a guy that you wish to find someone like him comes off as rather flirtatious and can be easily misinterpreted as a hint to be asked out. These men are not shoes, you don't waltz down the isle picking them off shelves just to set them back and your friends metaphor makes her seem rather monstrous and uncaring.

 

[Eamar]

I count two, but don't worry, I'm not a generalizing idiot. If I was, I'd have to claim my own gender as the "meaner" gender. After all, we have had Hitler, Stalin, etc. Gender isn't really a good indicator of assholery, people from both can be equally terrible

I'm just surprised that such shallow jerks lurk these forums.

Takes all sorts to make a world and all that. But yes, this isn't exactly the sort of thing you'd expect to find on a gaming forum. I do sometimes wonder how some people find these forums in the first place, but then again that probably makes me guilty of generalising so... yeah

 

[AngloDoom]

The friend zone does not exist usually guys that get put in the friendzone are either losers or very unattractive no offense.

BTW i notice that nice guys seem to think they are entitled to women alot of you so called nice guys really creep me out

you act as if women belong to you and seem to be mad at the world because you rejected and noboyd wants to sleep with you.

Being nice does not make you an interesting person, a good person, does not mean you are attractive and I've notice unlike men , us ladies usually do not tell men we find unttractive that they are unattractive.

I wish more women were like me I do not hang around or associate with males that call themselves nice guys which is ually code for pushover , cornball,creep,or just very unattractive socially awkard male

trhe reason nice guys get the friend zone is not because of them being nice its because they are usually ugly as hell.

Wow, your post is just so extremely shallow, arrogant, hateful, and judgmental. I am really glad for those men you deem "ugly as hell" that you don't want to associate with them, and if you ever see me I hope you think I'm ugly as hell too so you'll stay the fuck away from me.

You are actually my hero.

I don't know who you are or where you are from, but if our paths ever cross I'm buying you drinks for a night.


EDIT - Totally fucked the quote, corrected.

 

[Odbarc]

Captcha: [respect me] LOL! No.

 

[RvLeshrac]

Ha only in this world is it creepy to love someone new and show it.

Uhhh, I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying; it looks like Phasmal's got it covered though. See below.

I'm saying they were talking about creepers cause of something I posted where someone was moaning I had friend-zoned them but they were acting like kind of a dick. So saying it was loving someone new is silly.

And if thats the way you wanna think about it, go ahead. All I can think is if you like a girl, make it known. If you wanna be a friend, be a friend, not a pretend-friend.

Pretty much this. And it's the "pretend-friend" people I have issues with. They are the creepers I was referring to.

Do you hate them for it? Its not like they asked to fall in love, people fall in love for retarded reasons that make no sense, unfortunately not all of us are rico suave

Do I hate them for what, exactly? I think you're still kinda missing the point. Obviously people can't help how they feel, but they can control how they behave. The specific type of people I'm talking about are jerks. Do I hate jerks? Kind of. The people that I was referring to are those who become friends with a girl specifically to be romantically involved with her, but do so on the pretext of friendship. That doesn't make you a friend, it makes you an asshole.

Also, I feel I should point out that I don't have a problem with people who are friends with a girl and then develop feelings for her; that's legitimate. It happens. I also don't have a problem with people who are interested in someone and want to be friends first--hey I like you, let's get to know each other and see where this goes--because then at least you're being honest about your intentions.

I enjoy the way most of the people in this thread have not known what the fuck they're talking about, despite apparently living in the same reality as the rest of us.

1) No, the guy that is friends with the girl and then asks her out wasn't friends with her purely to get in her pants, that's a retarded oversimplification. The person that does that *ISN'T A NICE GUY*. It isn't a "No True Scotsman" when you say Scotsmen are Scotsmen and Russians aren't.

2) No one gives a fuck, in this scenario, about women who just come out and say what they mean. When someone says "I'm not interested in you," you have a clear-cut response to your question.

3) What we *DO* give a fuck about are women who start in with the "Let's just be friends," "I wish I could find someone like you," "Why are other guys such assholes" bullshit.

Maybe you *DO* just want to be friends. That's great. Don't start telling us how we'd be the perfect mate if we weren't your friend. Do we tell you you'd be the perfect size if you lost 20lbs?

4) We know women trend toward assholes because assholes have systems devoted to refining being an asshole - and they work *PHENOMENALLY* at picking up women. When we tell you that guy you're dating is an asshole who just wants to get in your pants, we're not being catty. That asshole just wants to get in your pants. Of course, when you finally figure this out and toss him, you come back to us and piss and moan about how you wish he could've been more like us.

Women go through the exact same shit with some guys, so don't pretend there's a male monopoly on believing women who do this are bitches. Guys who do it are dicks. The problem is that you start these stupid-ass threads talking about what a pain in the ass it is to have to deal with the guys (or girls) you've fucked over. If you break someone's heart and then proceed to dance on top of it, you need to learn to deal with the fallout from that.

If you can't deal with it, then stop jerking people around and say exactly what you mean. You don't like a guy who likes you? Tell him why. Maybe you can still be friends. Maybe, just maybe, the thing you don't like about him is something he can genuinely change (He's probably not going to start believing in Xenu, but maybe he'll quit smoking).

Just stop talking about how every goddamned guy you date is a pale reflection of him. That's what we really mean by "friend-zoned."

 

[Eamar]

Please, Im the one who friends zones the ladies.

No, realy. Im the only male in my program's year. like 95% of the people I hang with are women-folk.

But on topic, I think that Guys and Gals have a diffrent understanding of 'friend'. For a dude a friend is a bro, someone who you would spend time with as a matter of course. They are your compadraies, the rest of your party. These are the people you take advice from and realy on. Ladies have that to, but they call this group their 'best freinds'. For them anyone who they dont hate are friends. A guy is 'freindly' with the same group that a girl would call friend. It seems like the the proplem is a misscomunication.

When a girl says "I just want to be friends" they are saying, "no, I dont hate you. I think your nice and I dont want you as an enemy, but I dont think we can be really close because [insert reason here]."

I honestly have no idea why this is, its somthing that ive noticed from interacting with two high density gender-homogenus groups. I think it might be that Tend and befreind thing thats been throw around.

what do you think everybody?

I was all ready to disagree with you until you mentioned what girls tend to mean when they say "let's just be friends," and that got me thinking. In that case, assuming she means it and she's not just saying it to let him down gently, then yes, I think you're right. Some people (not necessarily all women, but perhaps a higher proportion of them) do have different "grades" of friendship, or perhaps are just more comfortable throwing the word around.

If we do assume that your descriptions of friendship are correct, I guess I'm pretty "masculine" in terms of friendships. Actually, my friends do joke about how "manly" I am (I'm not butch, just to be clear, but I do have a lot of traditionally male character traits and interests). And they are mostly guys. And my best mate does describe me as his bro. And everyone says we have a bromance going on... Oh god. I'm such a man...

*Ahem* Got a bit distracted there. But back on topic, I think you make some interesting points. I'd say that maybe the types of friendship groupings have more to do with personality than gender specifically, but perhaps some personality types are more prevalent in one gender. You're probably onto something with what you say about what women mean by "let's just be friends" though.