Can we talk about the "friend zone" and "nice guys" for a moment?

[Moth_Monk]

^ Also, you don't want to stick around someone you 'want' in a romantical way, but can't have. Keeps your mind in a bad place, hinders you from moving on.

Bingo.

Some of the commentators here seem to think that a male should be obligated to remain friends with a female to save them from feeling "used." Almost as if a female having to suffer mentally is automatically more important than a male having to suffer in a similar way. No. Everyone is equal. And having reached that stalemate I only see it as logical to default to valuing yourself over the other person.

 

[Moth_Monk]

How hard is it to wrap your head around the concept of being honest? If you meet a girl, and you want to be more than friends, JUST DON'T BE FRIENDS and save you both a whole lot of butt hurt.

That should work in theory but in practice I imagine that some people may suffer from great anxiety having to overcome the hurdle of being honest, from fear of embarrassment/rejection or the other person reacting negatively in some way - whether or not that would be a realistic outcome.

 

[Onjenae]

problem is most nice guys generally go for the super hot girls i would have more sympathy for nice guys if they actually went for females on their level but they tend to chase after the gils every other guy wants to fuck and gets mad when they are rejected by that girl.

And on what exactly are you basing this? I consider myself to be a genuinely nice guy, and I've really got an issue with these stuck up 'super hot girls' as you call them. I honestly take to the personality a lot more than just looks. Being out of their level? By appearance standard maybe, though genuine nice guys are far more empathetic and concern themselves with higher motives than 'oh shes hot I wanna bang her lets act all nice to her and get entitled'
A real 'nice guy' isn't looking for seks, if he is, then he's not a 'nice guy', simple as that. The real deal wants a real relationship, someone he can drop his guard around and be with... Getting mad when a girl doesn't like you makes no sense. It's her choice after all and you have no entitlement to that whatsoever, she's free to make her own decisions. To be fair it is a natural reaction, you got hurt, you get upset, its misplaced but understandable. If you can't understand that a guy gets mad at you for rejecting him and inflicting a grievous wound to his heart by doing so (if he was genuinely interested and happy to be around you) then that's a pretty self-centred view you've got there. Of course there are these players around that only act like it and don't really give a damn, but if you truly got someone that is the real deal, then you've really scarred him if you let him down too harshly. I'm not saying you shouldn't turn him down if you want to - I'm saying, be sodding understandable to what this guy is feeling. Don't go and tell him that phrase is swirling trough my mind as I'm reading your posts, you sound like someone who would say such a thing.... To bring up a quote of yours;

Let him do his laundry and laugh

because he's really nice to you? What a real ***** thing to do, honestly. Its just exploiting someone.

by the way whats wrong with a girl wanting a hot guy ?? its hilrous how men are shallow as hel lbut god forbid a woman wants a man who is decent looking lmaooo men start to *****, whine and complain about it

There's nothing wrong with that. As far as my knowledge goes, many women tent to look at personality more than looks though there's no penalty for doing the opposite, maybe its a bit more shallow but hey, looks matter, obviously. As pointed out by someone else somewhere in this thread (sorry I forgot who and I reallllly dont want to go trough the whole thing again xD)women ***** and moan just as much when a guy they like turns them down, its a natural reaction.

men have all these crazy standards for how they want a women to look and stuff but the minute a man can fall into most females standards of attractiveness we become shallow bitches lmaoooo thats crazy to me

What's crazy is that you seem to think all men want you to be that super hot photo model they dream of and ejaculate too... Everyone makes their own standards and yes, there is a general agreed perspective as to what men like to see, though this by far does not count as big as you may think. Personality is high on the list(at least for me, I'm hoping this is the case for many other men out there..)and I don't care if you're the #1 in the beauty contest, if you're a bitchy little c*** then you can get the hell away from me and start growing up in the real world, I don't want a woman that things she's all that and acts like she's entitled to that hot guy she thinks she is because she looks all that awesome. You're generally comming off like that to me right now, you complain about ugly men chasing girls that you deem above their level? What makes you think you're high up that level list of yours?

difference between me and the guys i complain about is im a woman lol i dont have to approach men, I dont get put in the friendzoine never have and never will lmaooo and when I want a guy I get him 1000% of the time

men cant say the same thing


I can be in the club by self lookingh all sad and i guarantee you by the end of the night i probably will get approached by 20 or more guys, everytime i walk down the street i get hit on I dont hit on men nor do i ever tell them they are good looking I let men do that to me therefore unlike you niceguys i know the person is already interested because they came to me not me to them


you see as a women i will never give you men that type of power i already know when a man likes me all i gotta do is wait for him to approach you on the other hand have to approach the woman and hope she does not turn you down


btw being superficial does not make you ***** you sound very sexiest honestyly reading through this thread i can tell msot of the nice guys are not alpha males there as reason most woman go after alpha males they havew masculine qualities nad they are not bitchy and effeminate like some of the men replying to this thread

 

[Mr.Pandah]

I've actually just never had this problem...Any girl that I'm friends with is usually interested in me anyways. If I'm their friend as well...I never really wanted to date them in the first place. Keeps me out of problems like this.

 

[Flight]

Just because a guy is nice to me does not mean he's entitled to have me as his girlfriend. As for "friend zone", I'm not even sure why that term exists. When I make friends with a guy, it means I think they're nice enough to be my friend.

 

[wookiee777]

I've never even heard the term "friend zoned" before. I wasn't even aware that people were complaining about that. Seems petty to me.

If you want to know your standing with somebody, just be up front and direct about it. Isn't communication essential for any relationship? I figured most people knew that.

 

[Taldeer]

I wonder what people actually really look for in a romantic relationship? Or, let me phrase this another way - what defines a romantic relationship, as opposed to friendship? For me, sex isn't really the defining factor. It's definitely the most notable difference between the relationship I have with my female friends, and the relationships I used to have with my girlfriends, but that's still not how I define the romantic relationship. It's not what I'm looking for.

What I'm looking for is, quite simply, someone I feel I care for at least as much as I care for myself. I'd like to take a little time to figure out if someone has that potential. Maybe a month or two, six at most. Then I tell them I'd like to go out with them. If they reject me, fine, we'll probably be friends, but having just explained that romance is, to me, an upgrade of friendship, and has no meaning whatsoever outside of that context, how many friendships can I develop before it all becomes just a little silly? Does thinking like that make me a push-over, spineless, contemptible "nice guy"? I'd really like to understand why that is. If not, what am I missing about this whole kerfuffle about nice guys and friend zones?

 

[Doctor Glocktor]

And honestly, I really want to know what you think 'making your feelings clear' means. Do you ask her out? Do you tell her you find her attractive? You certainly sound like you don't intend to make it easy for the poor bastard.

And I want you to tell me if a guy saying 'I WANT CHA' after two days of hanging out is correct in what you mean.

Or perhaps... subtlety exists?!

When I say 'make your feelings clear' I mean something like this: "Hey I think you're really cute/neat/spiffy/awesome, and I would like to spend more time with you in hopes that perhaps we could pursue the possibility of a relationship." That would be making your feelings clear.

My boyfriend and I met, talked a lot, hung out a few times, and within that span of time he told me I was cute, and that he believed our personalities complimented each other perfectly, and he wanted to spend a lot more time with me. And voila, I knew his intentions, and where I stood with him, and now we are dating. It's not rocket science.

How hard is it to wrap your head around the concept of being honest? If you meet a girl, and you want to be more than friends, JUST DON'T BE FRIENDS and save you both a whole lot of butt hurt.

It's a different situation entirely if you are friends with a girl and develop feelings for her sometime during your friendship.

To be honest, I'm not sure where I mentioned honesty, but I'll be sure to keep that in mind, thank you.

Anyways, you speak like you think what you say applies to every person.

Not everyone can guarantee that they want a relationship right off the bat; which is why getting to know someone is pretty important.

However, you flat out said that guys shouldn't be friends with girls beforehand if they may be interested in them. Why?

 

[Hobohodo]

It's not always fair all the time. Think of it this way, if I said to you, that I wish I could find someone like you, then I am saying that I like your features, and I'm certainly hinting at a possibly attraction.

I've had this problem, but I didn't understand what was going on, and I still don't understand it really... Every few months, she'd say she liked me, then she didn't, then she did but wanted to stay friends, and finally she told me she was full on in love with me, only, after a few weeks, she was in a relationship with someone else. I was heartbroken, and I'm still talking too her, but we've been through allot. Just because I have been friendzoned, it doesn't really affect the friendship as it would for most people.

It's not that people think they're entitled to a relationship, it's the simple fact that some people have been led on, not only being nice, but constantly complementing them, then that is going to give the wrong impression.

 

[archvile93]

Well I took a different quote to heart. From the words of Jean-Paul Satre, "Hell is other people." Also as I said before I doubt I'll ever hire a prostitute, because it is still rather expensive and I can't believe it really feels good enough to be worth the cost. I've come to the conclusion people's raving about it is the result social pressure and while I can't remember the exact term, it boils down to people will enjoy things more when they work hard for it by lying to themselves. When people have put a lot of time and effort into getting or maintianing something they will say it's better than it really is. Why? because they have to justify to themselves why they put so effort into it, and it's better to lie to themselves and say it's awsome than to let reailty hit them in the face and realize they spent so much time and effort on something pointless. This is one of the reasons abused spouses stay with husbands or wives. Also I don't believe there is anything morally wrong with being a prostitute. I still don't think it's a good profession to be in, but that's only because it's dangerous.

Sex really isn't the only reason people seek romantic companionship. I've never heard of a successful relationship based solely around sex. To me sex is nice, It's a nice way to blow off some steam, a nice way to reciprocate feelings to your partner, a nice way to gain intimacy, trust and understanding with another individual. Is it necessary? Absolutely not. You seem to have a warped idea that every body is talking sex, that it is the means to an end or the end itself. That couldn't be farther from the truth in a lot of cases.

Some people spend their lives pursuing sex, for sexual gratification's sake alone. But they are seriously in the minority. You need to get out and talk to people about this. Even at 22 i'm sure you will find peers around you that will tell you the same. I think it would be good for you to stop hiding yourself away and just talk to people, listen to people. Forget the media or porn or things that objectify and promote sex. Go and gather evidence for yourself, re-assess it and broaden your perspective on the whole issue. Perhaps just start with a forum, make a thread, ask people why they get into relationships, what makes them happy what makes them unhappy. That should at least interest you from the psychology angle.

I never said sex is the only reason people have relationship, but it's the only one I can really see hahving any value. I've never felt better being around others, and there is nothing I've been able to find that they can provide. It simpler and I feel much better alone.

 

[Gorrila_thinktank]

Your post is bomb. I love you.

 

[Altorin]

Well I took a different quote to heart. From the words of Jean-Paul Satre, "Hell is other people." Also as I said before I doubt I'll ever hire a prostitute, because it is still rather expensive and I can't believe it really feels good enough to be worth the cost. I've come to the conclusion people's raving about it is the result social pressure and while I can't remember the exact term, it boils down to people will enjoy things more when they work hard for it by lying to themselves. When people have put a lot of time and effort into getting or maintianing something they will say it's better than it really is. Why? because they have to justify to themselves why they put so effort into it, and it's better to lie to themselves and say it's awsome than to let reailty hit them in the face and realize they spent so much time and effort on something pointless. This is one of the reasons abused spouses stay with husbands or wives. Also I don't believe there is anything morally wrong with being a prostitute. I still don't think it's a good profession to be in, but that's only because it's dangerous.

Sex really isn't the only reason people seek romantic companionship. I've never heard of a successful relationship based solely around sex. To me sex is nice, It's a nice way to blow off some steam, a nice way to reciprocate feelings to your partner, a nice way to gain intimacy, trust and understanding with another individual. Is it necessary? Absolutely not. You seem to have a warped idea that every body is talking sex, that it is the means to an end or the end itself. That couldn't be farther from the truth in a lot of cases.

Some people spend their lives pursuing sex, for sexual gratification's sake alone. But they are seriously in the minority. You need to get out and talk to people about this. Even at 22 i'm sure you will find peers around you that will tell you the same. I think it would be good for you to stop hiding yourself away and just talk to people, listen to people. Forget the media or porn or things that objectify and promote sex. Go and gather evidence for yourself, re-assess it and broaden your perspective on the whole issue. Perhaps just start with a forum, make a thread, ask people why they get into relationships, what makes them happy what makes them unhappy. That should at least interest you from the psychology angle.

I never said sex is the only reason people have relationship, but it's the only one I can really see hahving any value. I've never felt better being around others, and there is nothing I've been able to find that they can provide. It simpler and I feel much better alone.

Then be alone, and stop spreading garbage. If you want to be alone, then why are you even commenting on a thread like this? you're trolling, either intentionally or unintentionally, and if your only viewpoint is "Sex is all that matters" because you don't like human companionship, then perhaps you shouldn't discuss it, because you have no vested interest in the topic. You can't gain anything from reading it, because you're closed off, and no one should listen to what you say about companionship because you're unable to make friends.

This isn't really meant as a personal attack, I just think it's silly to discuss something when you have absolutely no interest in it other then to poke holes in other people. It would be like me joining a discussion about stamp collecting just to say I don't like collecting stamps, but I think it's a really silly thing to do because I obviously know so much about it.

 

[Jun_Jun]

Since this is a predominantly male community, I figured talking about this here would result in the most interesting feedback. And I suppose I'm in the mood for a little controversy.

So you become friends with a female, and you really like her in that way. You spend time with her, you're kind to her, and you're always doing her favors. Eventually you pluck up the courage to confess your attraction and then GASP! she doesn't like you that way, and wants to stay friends! So now you go to all your buddies and cry that you were "friend zoned". Oh my goodness how dare that biotch not have any romantic feelings towards you!! You weren't a jerk to her so you were entitled to a relationship with her! And since your plans to get a little action were in vain, you cease being friends with the girl. And now the girl is left without a friend, and the knowledge that you were only friends with her in hopes of getting in her pants.

Do you realize how ridiculous whining about being "friend zoned" is? And that if you really wanna be a nice guy, that you should be nice to girls even if you don't want in their pants?

Also, when a girl says "I wish I could find a guy like you" but they don't want you, think of it this way: (stealing the metaphor from a friend of mine) Say you are out shopping and you want to buy a red pair of shoes. You get to the shoe store and find a nice pair of red shoes, but that particular pair of shoes isn't exactly suited to your taste so you continue looking and maybe you end up getting a pair of shoes completely different to what you were originally looking for. So when a girl says, "I wish I could find a guy like you" it means she likes your qualities, but isn't attracted to you. This does not make her a hypocrite, or a *****. So please stop whining and making yourselves out to be a victim of some heinous crime because the girl you like doesn't like you.

Sorry for the little rant, I've just seen too many "friend zone" related memes and rage comics recently. 0___0

Thankyou so much for that, being a girl and being accused of being le evil ***** friend zoning my best friend through Highschool I do find this as a petty excuse for 'I can't be bothered confessing my feelings to the girl when I first meet her so I'm going to pretend to be her friend for 6 years and chuck a ***** fit when she doesn't enjoy being feeled up while being engaged to someone else' y'know what? I'm going to copy paste one of my old posts:

I'm female and I had a friend in the friend zone (he really had a thing for me) and before you all yell out 'evviill ***** give him a chance!!'

Spoiler: here's why I didn't

I'm going to say this guy was a very good friend for the last 3 years of high school he did so much for me and supported me so well when I went through horrible times (eg. my childhood friend running from home to the other side of the country with some 30 year old man, never heard from her again and assumed she had been raped and murdered. But that's another story). This whole time I was pretty oblivious being the teenager I was, although he wasn't so direct with his feelings he never really told me how he felt, I just thought this was how friends were meant to be, always there for each other and inseparable. Shit hit the fan when our year 12 formal (prom whatever american equivalent is) came up, everyone had dates, I refused to have a date at the time because I didn't want my memories to be ruined by including someone I know I wouldn't be with in a few years time. So it comes around and everyone's dancing I get asked by another male friend to dance, me being horrible at dancing start dancing and go 'oh no! I can't dance with you! This is bad!' (whatever I said you get the gist), friend zone man comes up and pulls me off this guy and starts trying to dance with me (trying to be a white knight obviously). I pull away instantly and sit down, making my feelings quite obvious with what he did. After school finished I used to hang out with high school friends quite a lot, he started getting more direct and insanely jealous of my other male friends (who are just friends), saying untrue things about them and being just annoying every time I said that I wanted to hang out with a bunch of them. I eventually stopped talking to him for about 2 years, deciding that his refusal to give up on me was ruining what a awesome friendship before. and to be honest I felt betrayed thinking every time that he was there for me and being supportive and being such a good mate he was just thinking 'yes! she's gotta like me for doing this!' I felt horrible like I didn't know this person.

Spoiler: 2years later

about two years go by before I talk to him, in that time I get into a very serious relationship(which I'm still in I might add), my boyfriend convinces me to talk to him because after all he was my best friend and he wanted to meet him. So I get in contact with him have a awkward sorry conversation he acts all cool with it and everything is good I decide to invite him to a big weekly dnd session with all my friends, since he used to mention it every now and then and how he wanted to check it out (yes quite nerdy hurr durr)he swears at my friends and plain ol' insults them and just generally rude in everything he says. I regretted for getting him involved in the dnd campaign at that point, I later lied saying that it was cancelled so not to hurt his feelings, I would go out and hang out with him at the shops and it would be quite fun walking around chatting it felt like we had our friendship right back on track ^^. After awhile I got engaged he didn't congratulate me like all my other friends and family just stayed quiet, during this time we also had some major floods come through my area (yes quite familiar hurp derp) I posted a message on my facebook telling my family overseas not to worry because we weren't affected, saying something along the lines of our river not being connected to the ones causing the floods. he replied in the message saying 'yeah river are whores like that' I posted a message privately to him asking him not to use language like that because my family (including grandparents would read it) he didn't reply to it. I see him about 2 months later at the local shops he went to hug me as a hello but instead ended up lingering a bit too much longer and it felt like he was embracing me, I flipped out at this point, I push and away and said 'what the hell!? I'm engaged, I'm taken! You can't act like this towards me there was nothing between us and there never will be I don't have feelings for you, we had a awesome friendship until you ruined it, even after 2 years you're still not over me, Just leave me alone and stay out of my life. (something along those lines) I saw a private message on facebook later asking me why I was avoiding him and why I seemed to be mad at him.

Ok for those of you that have read through this whole post, thankyou! I have one final point to make though, do not linger on to the friend zone with a woman you have feelings with it will make it worse, showing tenacity and patience can pay off with many things, this is not one of them. The fact that this guy still thought that if he played his cards right that he could still be with me even after 2 years of not talking to him, even after I was already taken and engaged? seriously? I'm not trying to be cruel and crush your dreams but there is a time to give up and move on, yes you can still be friends with her, yes you can be nice to her but don't do it for the wrong reasons of thinking 'she will think I'm a nice guy!' Do it because you're her friend and she trusts you, there is no worse feeling than that trust being betrayed and that friendship being destroyed.

Ok I'm raising my fire proof wall for all the flame coming my way after posting this.

I'm trying not to be mean here but think of their feelings, if you truly care about their happiness you will let them make their own decisions and be with who they want to be with, if you're not the right person, then accept that and move on.

Also I realize this is badly written and yes the first part is quite juvenile but that's who I was back then

Also I will guess I have been ninja'd on this but I will link this for good measure:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/lovefaq/9240-Nice-Guys-Suck

 

[AnotherAvatar]

I was recently friend-zoned after we had already had sex... It's like some next level shit, she only wanted to hang out and fuck and not date... Once I showed her some real affection and an interest getting romantically involved- BAM!- Friend zone.

Ladies: You're confusing, and I give up.

 

[jimbob123432]

I agree with the "nice guys are not entitled to relationships" sentiments posted here, HOWEVER, in my experience I've been "friendzoned" by women who take it too far. I've been in sexual relationships with women who later tell me they "don't like me in that way". THESE are the women that I ***** about.

 

[Raven's Nest]

I never said sex is the only reason people have relationship, but it's the only one I can really see hahving any value. I've never felt better being around others, and there is nothing I've been able to find that they can provide. It simpler and I feel much better alone.

Then be alone, and stop spreading garbage. If you want to be alone, then why are you even commenting on a thread like this? you're trolling, either intentionally or unintentionally, and if your only viewpoint is "Sex is all that matters" because you don't like human companionship, then perhaps you shouldn't discuss it, because you have no vested interest in the topic. You can't gain anything from reading it, because you're closed off, and no one should listen to what you say about companionship because you're unable to make friends.

This isn't really meant as a personal attack, I just think it's silly to discuss something when you have absolutely no interest in it other then to poke holes in other people. It would be like me joining a discussion about stamp collecting just to say I don't like collecting stamps, but I think it's a really silly thing to do because I obviously know so much about it.

Sorry for interrupting but I thought your post was really uncalled for. I don't believe this gentleman to be trolling at all. Our conversation is completely off-topic as far as the thread is concerned. If he was that closed off and uninterested he wouldn't be replying!

There is a much, much more annoying troll on this page if you want to argue with one...

 

[Jun_Jun]

I agree with the "nice guys are not entitled to relationships" sentiments posted here, HOWEVER, in my experience I've been "friendzoned" by women who take it too far. I've been in sexual relationships with women who later tell me they "don't like me in that way". THESE are the women that I ***** about.

I don't think that's the friendzone man, that sounds like the 'friends with benefits zone'.
On that note I think with better communication this could probably be avoided by outlining what you want in a relationship with a girl, even if there is a relationship or just a one night stand with a girl you really like and you end up thinking 'great we hooked up she's my girlfriend now!'. I will also note, I'm not picking you apart here or singling you out or even making assumptions on what happened in your relationship (no offense!, really!) I'm just seeing quite a few of these sorts of posts in these types of threads and I thought I would just share what I know on this subject