Canadian SF Author beaten and arrested at Border Crossing.

[Samcanuck]

Well, the yanks have come into our country, taken a citizen, imprisoned him for over two years without trial only to find out he was innocent...And then not apologized upon release. THIS article doesn't surprise me.

The land of the free, chalk full of people just waiting to throw away their civil liberties, privacy and freedoms due to fear. Fear of reprisal from foriegn bodies motivated by the actions of this same government that creates the laws and policies surrounding this article. And what do the American people do in response to this restriction and influence on their own people and allies? They cry innocents and they cry for more.

Strange how a capitalist nation can get on their knee's for there own government so fast. Bloody over the top patriotism and arrogance. But hey, atleast they have good videogames and movies, right?

 

[teh_gunslinger]

Why does it seem to me every other country is a shit hole but Canada? Britain is Orwellian, the States are a corporate-run police state, and Australia has that fucking neanderthal Atkinson. Canada has the Conservative party and Harper, but that is at least more tolerable than the rest. Of course, everybody has a bias view for their own nation, but I honestly think the only other place in the world I would rather live is Sweden. Anyone else feel this kinda way about their nation?

I'm pretty sure if we ask Khell he can find plenty wrong with Canada. He has a few choice words to say, especially about the politicians, last I checked.

Also, there are a few other countries in the world. But I guess if Atkinson is the biggest problem in Australia they are well off.
And Sweden may not be the paradise some people think it is. At least from my experience they are big on legislation forbidding this and that, as are the other Scandinavian countries. But pigs are pigs everywhere and here in Denmark we got as I type, protesters sitting on their ass on the asphalt in Copenhagen after being "administratively detained". A lot of them have been sitting there for 4-5 hours and pissing themselves. That's the face of democracy for you.

 

[ElephantGuts]

Based on the fact that this man claims to have been spontaneously assaulted and brutally beaten by border officials for asking a simple question related to their searching of his vehicle, I can't help but get the feeling we're not getting the whole story.

Why not? Prof. Gates got arrested for yelling too loudly at a police officer.

Still, even in that case he was yelling at the police officer, which certainly suggests he was acting aggressively. This guy says he just asked a question. Such brutal treatment can't materialize out of nowhere without some sort of provocation.

Unless the United States has started employing rabid gorillas as border guards, which I doubt even more.

Some might say that all it takes is a badge. [http://www.prisonexp.org/]

I would think, or hope, that the US-Canada border is not equivalent to a prison environment. As I said in my above response, there must have been some sort of provocation for that sort of treatment to occur. In the story you linked, it seems the first cases of prisoner mistreatment erupted after a rebellion. Things may have gotten more out of control after that, but it was still a case of guards attempting to control their prisoners. In this case, there was absolutely no reason for border guards to randomly assault one of many foreigners who pass through there every day.

 

[Arawn.Chernobog]

Hey what the fuck America?

Seriously?

Gah, I have no words to put into this post except...

I am disappointed and I already expected nothing from you as a nation.

 

[ElephantGuts]

Based on the fact that this man claims to have been spontaneously assaulted and brutally beaten by border officials for asking a simple question related to their searching of his vehicle, I can't help but get the feeling we're not getting the whole story.

Why not? Prof. Gates got arrested for yelling too loudly at a police officer.

Still, even in that case he was yelling at the police officer, which certainly suggests he was acting aggressively. This guy says he just asked a question. Such brutal treatment can't materialize out of nowhere without some sort of provocation.

He doesn't say he just asked a question:

"Along some other timeline, I did not get out of the car to ask what was going on. I did not repeat that question when refused an answer and told to get back into the vehicle.

That's the provocation: he repeated his question and didn't get back in the vehicle.

Oh, wow, I missed that somehow. In that case it's more understandable that that happened. Wrong, of course, but believable at least.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

I would think, or hope, that the US-Canada border is not equivalent to a prison environment.

An isolated community where you are put in fear of your life every day? I think being in a prison would be a holiday camp to these guys. The original Stamford experiment had to be stopped because 2 weeks in, the "guards" were already subjecting the "prisoners" to inhumane treatment; despite them starting off as equals.

And guards protect their own. They have to, to survive.

 

[000Ronald]

You really think the job of the police is to protect and serve the people? Not in America. Our Supreme Court decided on June 27, 2005, in Castle Rock vs Gonzales that the police have no requirement to protect and serve the people. In the case, the police were being sued because they refused to enforce a restraining order between an estranged husband and his wife, which led to the murder of her three children.

This in particular doesn't bode very well; it gives the police right to be little more than glorified bullies. I've been bullied most of my life in one way or another, and have come to the (likely untrue) conclusion that there are only two ways to deal with bullies; douse yourself in kerosene and light yourself on fire, or beat them so senseless they can't breathe without the help of a machine.

Both my father and my best friend have had the same problem with our police force; if they decide to take out their nightsticks, there's nothing you can do until after the fact that won't make them a hero.

Apologies Abound

 

[Mr Wednesday]

Such brutal treatment can't materialize out of nowhere without some sort of provocation.

I'm really not sure about that. My dad told me about a policeman who'd beat him up, every week while he was returning from rugby, just because he could, and there was jack all he could do about it, least of all fight back.

 

[Samcanuck]

Well, the yanks have come into our country, taken a citizen, imprisoned him for over two years without trial only to find out he was innocent...And then not apologized upon release. THIS article doesn't surprise me.

The land of the free, chalk full of people just waiting to throw away their civil liberties, privacy and freedoms due to fear. Fear of reprisal from foriegn bodies motivated by the actions of this same government that creates the laws and policies surrounding this article. And what do the American people do in response to this restriction and influence on their own people and allies? They cry innocents and they cry for more.

Strange how a capitalist nation can get on their knee's for there own government so fast. Bloody over the top patriotism and arrogance. But hey, atleast they have good videogames and movies, right?

The question is why Canada is so fast to get one it's knees for America:

Although much of the inquiry has been conducted behind closed doors, a recent series of public hearings has embarrassed the Canadian government by exposing details of Arar's "extraordinary rendition" -- the phrase used by the CIA to describe the U.S. practice of secretly sending terror suspects to countries where torture is routine. The hearings have also revealed a greater Canadian role in the practice than previously acknowledged.

...

The inquiry began after Arar was released without charges by Syria and returned to his family in Ottawa in October 2003. Since then, a series of hearings has disclosed that Canadian intelligence agents met with Arar's Syrian jailers and exchanged information with Syrian officials about Arar. They also suggested that Canadian diplomats were more anxious to see their own countryman interrogated than released.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/25/AR2005062501185.html

Glad you know about it. And the answer is, I don't know. I can think that since we have about the population of California in all of Canada, that could factor in. Perhaps because we are the closest ally and a neighbooring country to the U.S with all its money, influence and military power that THAT could be a factor. The truth is I wish we had the population and ability to tell the U.S to peacefully cram it with wallnuts, and have it listen. But I don't realistically see that happening. I mean, our countries leaders...forget that, the U.N couldn't even talk your country out of going to war with Iraq, what good would pleading for the life of Arar do? And besides, the rich politician couldn't care less about the individual at the best of times, what chance does Arar have with Arar vs. The U.S?

Really.

Atleast we arent led by the nose into the Iraq war, and have enough guts to say no to that.
I still stand by my indignation however, and my question and opinions still stand no matter if our politicains are gutless in this case.

Touche though, good point non-the-less.

 

[Terramax]

He must have done something. Maybe he got out of the car, which he should have known not to.

Serious question; what is it you do and don't do? I mean, what does getting out the car actually mean?

 

[shadowstriker86]

We're running the kind of operation where you keep your mouth shut and your head down. Where obedience to the state trumps individual liberty, where corruption and power grabs are blunted by the influence of prolefeed on the electorate.

In other words, no place you'd ever WANT to travel to.

/thread.

what does /thread mean anyway? but ya with the first guy i gotta agree, i mean i love my country but the douchebags that run it need to be penciled in for a swift visit from the angel of death

 

[thewerebuffalo]

You do realize how biased that article was. Why would his friends admit he did anything, and the writer started with "my friend." He may deserve it or he may not.

This. On the USA side of the border you are dealing with Homeland Security, and they can pretty much do whatever they wish if they even have the slightest provacation of something wrong. Sure sometimes it seems unfair, and yeah they are way OP, but how many terrosrists have they stopped? How many people successfully crossed the border that day without a hitch? I don't think they randomly chose to beat and prosecute this guy for no reason. I'm not choosing sides, but that was a very one sided article.

how many terrorists have they stopped? is that a joke? do you think that hundreds of terrorists are trying to enter the US every day and are getting out of cars at border crossings in order to show their allegiance to fanatical Islam? no, this person made a mistake, but if he says he did not do anything, I believe him and I am disgusted by the actions of our border patrol. Needlessly prosecuting someone for no apparent reason. when asked whether i believe a group of people who beat up a sf writer or the sf writer who got beaten up, prosecuted and had his things stolen, I would go with the sf writer

 

[ChainsawEnima]

America: Still having the balls to wonder why the world doesn't like them.

Yes because this is the fault of every citizen of America. We were all there, at that Port Huron Border Crossing. We also all voted collectively on hiring the border guards that were there and were conducting performance reviews.

Are you dense naturally or do you just practice it. This is not about countries. And if it becomes about countries then we'll have lost all perspective thanks to jingoistic tomfoolery like yours. If you want to go join in on the pointless America bashing, go to the link in the OP and start commenting there.

I'm sure when the man was driving up the border he was all like "I'm sure not all americans are as bad as people make them out to be"

Look what happened to him.

 

[dududf]

Reminds me of my visit to the USA when I was 9, going to Florida (I.E Disney Land back then)

I dropped my game boy out the window by accident, got out to pick it up, next second, a Border cop told me to get back in the car, in a rude way (I don't rmemeber, how I believe he was cussing,) parents didn't notice, I gave him attitude (didn't step towards him, neither did I cuss, just (if memory serves me correct) "Pfft who do you think you are Mister ") My reward was getting pepper sprayed then laughed at.


[sup]and you wonder why I'm a touch biased against America >_>[/sup]


Anywho, I hope the writer gets off OK, I like his books

Just more fuel for the over used statement of "America is full of corruption and idiots.".

*Sigh*

I hope he got in some form of transportation before 4am, as thats when the storm hit. That Guard is a fucking Asshole, either way the story goes. I don't care about the natural Bias of the article, from the facts I got he used WAY too much force, and has too much power, and as such from that power has too much Ego.

 

[MrSnugglesworth]

WHAT THE F*CK?



HE DID NOTHING, GOT BEATEN, AND IS GETTING SENTENCED WITH ATTACKING A FEDERAL OFFICER?