Cartridges: Why 3DS might be failing

[jebus4you]

cartdriges= almost no loading time. The psp has more loads in it than sasha grey.

But i don't have or want a 3ds so i really dont know.

 

[Treblaine]

Why don't you just say you don't like portable consoles? Your argument is as valid for anything handheld , like a psp or a ds or a gameboy ... Thats not a problem with the actual 3ds but the fact you don't want a handheld console :/

The thing is I've owned handhelds for all my life. I still have my GBP, GBC, GBA, GBASP, PSP and DS. It's not that I don't like handhelds: it's that handhelds, for the first time, have REAL, credible competition. Competition that not only has cheap and fun games, but comes right short of being a kitchen sink. I'd love to get a PSV or a 3DS, I really would, but I really don't know how I can justify it to myself if I already have two devices that not only play games, but play games cheaper AND fulfill real, valuable functions BESIDES entertainment.

I don't see handhelds being "relevant" anymore unless they start offering people something BEYOND a dedicated gaming device. One step the 3DS does need to take is a stronger focus on digital distribution, but giving it more "bang for your buck" is right well essential too.

I think what is so damning about the 3DS is it isn't just being (arguably) outperformed by MP3 players and mobile phones that have come out this year, but I'd argue also by the PSP that came out 6 years ago in 2005!

As per the comparison of Metal Gear Solid's portable-re-release vs Ocarina of Time's portable-re-release. The differences in price.

If you are interested in classic games from the 90's... the PSP is honestly a really good purchase. Ignore the UMD drive, just check out the PSOne classics collection. THAT is how you do pocket-portable nostalgia. And at $99, that's a good deal for face buttons and analogue nub. I'd recommend it, it'll tide you over till PSV then you can get that whenever (like when the price is right, and the games are there) give the PSP to your young relative or something.

But then again, PSP would pretty much be just for gaming. I will say, even my crappy old PSP-1000 has wicked battery life when playing PSOne classics. And it's the only way you can play games like MGS, Tomb Raider and so on in a portable way.

One way I think PSV can succeed as "more than a portable gaming device" is if it doubles as a wii-U style controller for the PS3. I'd love to see Sony directly competing with WiiU by pushing the PSV as a controller for games like Uncharted 4, Resistance 4 or Infamous 3 or whatever. Sony gave many strong hints they'd do this, if they have any sense they'll push this as much as they can.

 

[Treblaine]

What would you suggest besides that system? The PSP's UMDs were awful as they were easily damaged, and the PSP Go, which attempted to be completely download based, failed horribly.

Well, I don't own a PSP-Go, never have. I think it faield as it tried to have it's cake and eat it. As crappy as UMD is it is jsut too much bad press to remove the drive and make all the PSp games obsolete. That caused a lot of rage. My experience with PSP-1000 (fat and old) with UMD as was mostly underwhelming.

But my opinion of PSP completely changed with a 2GB memory stick and all the re-releases of their classics catalogue. The price was right, the convenience was there, I have the choice at my fingertips when I wanted it.

I don't even think I own any UMDs any more and certainly haven't used one in my PSP for a while. They drain the battery quicker, playing from UMD. Noisy too.

I won't buy a PSP-Go as the extra cost is not worth the shrink in size.

cartdriges= almost no loading time. The psp has more loads in it than sasha grey.

But i don't have or want a 3ds so i really dont know.

You get the same advantages in loading-times and power-savings when the game is installed to an SD-Card or Pro-Duo memory stick.

This isn't Cartridge vs UMD

This is Cartridge vs flash memory.

It's interesting this generation how the "primary media" like 'DVD vs Blu-ray', 'UMD vs cartridge' have all been sidelined by the "secondary storage" like hard drives and flash-cards that are more or less equal between all platforms.

The differences in loading time is so great between UMD and Pro-Duo stick I'd say the digital version are worth MORE. Plus you can fit almost 9 PSP games onto a single $22 memory-card.

Also, Rage on 360 John Carmack heavily endorses installing the game to the hard drive to reduce texture pop-in and avoid disc swapping. Plus quite how important XBLA arcade games are now Microsoft of recent years has more exclusives on there than they release on Disc.

 

[tomtom94]

I think Nintendo have made a massive mistake releasing a handheld that requires games which are MORE expensive at a time when games in general are becoming cheaper and more disposable.

 

[Don't taze me bro]

One reason I think it fails, is because there are no decent games for it.

I bought a 3DS back on release, and still haven't bought a game for it. My copy of Pokemon Black is still inside it. I just see no games that I am willing to shell out for right now.

Many of you would consider Zelda:OOT to be a worthy game for it, but I'm not going to get it. Why? I bought it for the N64 back when it came out. I finished it, and loved it. I bought the special edition of Wind Waker on the Gamecube. This version came with a copy of Ocarina of Time AND the Master Dungeons. I played and completed it again.

I just have no interest playing Ocarina for the 3rd time, when I still have the Gamecube port I could play on my Wii.

 

[intheweeds]

A
I don't like the iDevices for gaming and I'm still quite old school regarding portables, so, my last hope of having a real system dedicated to games on the go will be the Vita. No matter how many Marios, Zeldas, Metroids and Metal Gears Nintendo uses, I don't see myself buying a 3DS for the time being.

I had this opinion till I tried 'Rage' on iPod Touch (4th gen) with the "Virtual Window" for aiming and looking around.

Blew my mind. Not just the best iOS game, one of the best portable games and honestly one of the most inspiring gaming experiences I've played this generation.

The virtual windows exploits the ludicrously accurate gyroscope built into 4th generation iPhone/iPod touch devices and the iPad 2 onwards. It is super accurate, it effectively makes your whole device a very accurate pointing device but what is so impressive is HOW this is applied.

And it works literally like a Virtual window. If you want to look 10-degrees to your right you turn the screen AND yourself 10 degrees to the right and to turn around YOU turn around! Holding it up to your face it is like a window into a virtual world, it is extraordinary and unlike anything I have experienced before. The thing is this way I was able to aim fast, fluid and naturally, the closest thing to mouse aim.

For me, it redefines what gaming can be. It's no longer just aiming with the fingers or wrist, but my WHOLE BODY. The Wii didn't do that for me. I'm standing in my kitchen in kind of boxing stance with my iPod Touch raised whipping around to headshot mutants. I'll pass up on playing 360 to play this game!

This is what excites me about iOS, not how it can recreate home-console experiences in handheld format. But how it can have such unique gaming experiences you'd never have considered before.

And Rage on iOS... is a free game.

That sound amazing in terms of technology and gameplay, don't get be wrong. Standing in my bedroom I would love it, but all my portable gaming happens on my daily streetcar commute. This doesn't sound like something i want to be doing on public transit. I want to check it out though, if it ever comes out for Android.

It's nice to see someone figure out a way to get past the touchscreen sticks and buttons. Touchscreen controls are the main reason I personally agree with Supah about smartphone gaming. Mind you the newest version of my phone is out now, which frankly looks awesome. I might look into it in a few months.
<Spoiler=Xperia PLAY>http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Xperia-Play_3.jpg
OT: As for me, I am in the camp that likes my cartridges. I like to own a physical game. Steam has been changing my mind on my PC recently, but only in so far as I do own more downloadable titles. I still buy the disks given the opportunity. Steam gets me on the sales, but sometimes I would still rather buy the box than get the deal. I'm trying to decide how to buy Human Revolution now. I want the box, but it's $10 cheaper on Steam.

Honestly, if I had a portable system with a good digital distribution service, I would buy more I'm sure. I know part of it is a psychological barrier. I think cartridge or download is a personal preference thing.

In terms of the 3DS, A drop in price does make it more interesting, but I am happy with my DSi. 3DS doesn't offer me anything I want that I don't already have. Worse than that, it actively turns me off with it's gimmicky 3D mating dance and obvious OoT drug pushing. If it had titles instead of gimmicks, I would be seriously looking at it, but as it is now it's a joke to me.

 

[Aean]

The 3DS system itself is made up of solidified potential. Its hardware and capabilities are extremely impressive, but there aren't any games that really put it to solid use. Personally, I'm kind of excited about the new system (even though I haven't bought one yet) just because of all the stuff it *can* do, but Nintendo is only pushing one small part of it: 3D. For pity's sake, 3D is probably the dumbest gimmick to ever become popular.

I personally believe if Nintendo started releasing games today that focusing on pushing the hardware's capabilities with things like first person shooters, real time strategies, and RPGs; perhaps even throwing in AR to the mix the system could easily become a best seller and a classic. But just like the original DS (which could have housed some amazing RTSs using the touch screen) Nintendo doesn't like experimenting with their own quirky hardware.

 

[Stall]

I think one of the absolute BIGGEST reasons why handhelds are at a disadvantage to downloadable titles is that typically, downloadable titles are easier to play on the go. Sometimes, you don't WANT to have a full, epic, AAA experience when you are on the shuttle going between buildings. Something like Angry Birds works perfectly in this case. Some people really give iOS and Android games shit for this, but I think this is the reason why they are so successful. They work well in very small portions, which is when most people are going to pull out their phone or tablet for a quick gaming session.

I'm not sure about the current state of the marketplace is on the 3DS, but Nintendo really ought to start pushing more cheap little titles. Not only should they start doing their classics on the cheap, but they also should try to open up their marketplace more so indie developers can make smaller, little .99 cent titles for the platform. Let the 3DS be a platform where people can not only get that AAA experience, but get the quick, on the cheap experience as well. Hell, I say they go have a chat with Rovio and get a 3D version of Angry Birds to kick it off! That'll get the attention of the average consumer! The market for mobile devices is very, VERY different in 2011. I think Nintendo refuses to accept mobile phones as competition, which is really going to do them in.

One way I think PSV can succeed as "more than a portable gaming device" is if it doubles as a wii-U style controller for the PS3. I'd love to see Sony directly competing with WiiU by pushing the PSV as a controller for games like Uncharted 4, Resistance 4 or Infamous 3 or whatever. Sony gave many strong hints they'd do this, if they have any sense they'll push this as much as they can.

Exactly! THAT would give someone in my position reason to purchase it. When I say that handhelds need to "be more," it doesn't mean they need a full app store where I can get an office suite. It just NEEDS something to differentiate itself from phones, PMPs, and tablets.

Perhaps Nintendo could work in the 3DS with the WiiU, eh?

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well the system itself isn't bad but the market place is shifting so they just have:
- overpriced console
- overpriced games
- small game library
- closed platform

Meanwhile phones step it up a notch every 3 months or so and there is no stopping them, sure they don't have many quality developers but how long before that changes...

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

...How is a cartridge inconvenient? In all honesty, I would view a cartridge as more convenient than a digital download. Now, if you're strictly speaking about price, then this argument makes a lot more sense. But otherwise I don't see how a cartridge can be worse than a digital download.

This. I just dont like the idea of downloading games. Yes, for demos or arcadey games. But full price games? Thing is, in the future everything will be digital download, and the games wills till be the same price even though the costs are way down. Plus eventully you will fill up your hard drive. Cartridge is easier.

 

[devotedsniper]

All i have to say to this is the 3ds has no real difference to the original DS and the same goes for the rest of them, yes they all have slightly different features, webcams, different sized screens, lighter, 3d, etc. but come on when it comes down to it the games can be played on all of them (except the new 3d ones). Also the fact they release a new one every year or so doesn't help.

 

[Redweaver]

"Media: Bulky Cartridge"

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA (gaaaaaaaaaaaasp) HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The funniest hyperbolic exageration I've read in years!

 

[Rad Party God]

Snip.

Well, I couldn't get the same feeling while playing Infinity Blade in my cousin's iPod Touch, I mean, yeah, it has amazing graphics for a portable device, but the gameplay itself, I couldn't get out of my head the feeling that I already played that game, like in the NES with Punch-Out. I mean, the basics are almost the same, learn your enemy's pattern, dodge to the right direction and start slashing your opponents and gather enough power to make a deadly attack. I almost felt I was fighting King Hippo.

Also, I still think that everything that the iDevices do, the Vita can do it better. Not to degrade this thoughtful thread to flames, but I'm still not convinced that the iDevices are a feasable substitute for the more traditional dedicated gaming handhelds. And I still think that they should start selling games cheaper if they want to keep their relevance, if there's still any left.

 

[Jacob Haggarty]

Really? The DS cartridges are too bulky? You have SEEN those psp disk THINGS right?

Also, what do you mean a special holder for them? Surely you mean a "pocket". Unless you take your entire back catalogue of games with you when you go out, i assume you would only take one or maybe two. Seeing as they're pretty damned tiny anyway (hardly "bulky" as you say) unless you are wearing the skinniest of skinny jeans, its not going to be too taxing to just stuff it in your pocket.

If your ONLY looking at the cost difference, then yeah, your digital download wins. Besides, if you want to buy a hard copy game for the psp, you will have to pay just as much or more. I fail to see your point.

 

[Stall]

Also, I still think that everything that the iDevices do, the Vita can do it better.

Um, this is so incredibly wrong on so many levels. I mean, the level of "wrong" that statement achieves is just so great that I cannot even begin to argue against it. Last time I checked, the PSV can't make a phone call better than an iPhone. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you intended to word your statement a bit differently. Because there is NO WAY you can actually believe a PSV can do everything an iOS device does, not unless you perhaps live on the moon thus are UNFATHOMABLY ignorant about iOS or "trolling" (I hate that word...).

The thing about iOS and Android devices is that they can play games, AND do five bajillion-million-gahjiliion things on top of that. The PSV... just plays games. This is the ultimate problem here. Sure, the 3DS and PSV have better games, but is that increase in quality truly worth purchasing, as well as carrying around, a second device that is no where near as multifunctional as devices you already carry around?

This, I think, is the biggest problem with handhelds. They are just don't offer people enough anymore. That was fine in the days when phones weren't smart and tablet PCs were laughable. In a decade where smart phones have awe-inspiring adoption rates and tablets are gaining adoption as well, handhelds have reasons to be worried. One way they can become more appealing is, with no doubt, a stronger focus on cheap digital downloads. The business model works amazing for iOS and Android, so I fail to see why it wouldn't work for the 3DS and PSV.

 

[NickCaligo42]

Could be simply because there aren't any games for it.

Let's be honest here. Star Fox 64 3D? Ocarina of Time 3D? Anyone with a lick of sense in their head realizes, "hey, I bought this already." You can buy them on the Wii's virtual console, you can get old cartridges for the N64, there's no shortage of ways to pick these games up--sans the updates, but is it really worth it to pick them up on a handheld? That doesn't feel like an upgrade to a lot of people.

I know what the answer to that is--personally I'm a big fan of the PS1 re-releases via the Playstation Store. Final Fantasy 7 on handheld is an incredible thing. But... I'd never have bought a PSP on that product line alone. That's a bonus for a handheld that already had a few new, original games that I was interested in buying.

What's the 3DS got to show for itself so far? A half-assed Resident Evil game (not even a full game--the minigame from the full games on other consoles, sold at a premium price), another version of Street Fighter IV and BlazBlue--which everybody who's going to be interested in them already own on other consoles--some lame launch games nobody wants, Pilot Wings, and a fistful of re-makes. I don't need to mince words here: there is no new content. The system is effectively worthless. Worse yet is the news of many third party cancellations, including (but not limited to) Mega Man Legends 3.

What all this says to consumers is that Nintendo either doesn't give a shit, doesn't have any faith in their own system, or just doesn't understand that we want new games. It certainly says that other companies don't have much faith in the system. Most consumers aren't up on the gaming news enough to really care about that, though--what they care about is having enough interesting games for the system to be able to justify its purchase, which they don't.

 

[fix-the-spade]

-HOW THIS CAN BE REVERSED (please, not all doom and gloom)

It can be reversed if Nintendo abandons the Japanese Corporate stereotype (We will decide what to sell to the customer, as opposed to produce what the customer actually wants)

Jam an SD slot in the back and allow downloads to it or to an hdd on your PC which you can tansfer to the SD card.

Also, flash cards!
Nintendo won't admit to it, but a huge reason for the DS/Lite's success is how open it was being hacked by users. My DS only ever saw three or four game cartridges. It spent the rest of it's life as a combined MP3 player and portable sketch book. If I couldn't have done that to it I'd never have bought the DS.

The unfortunate side effect of flash carts is piracy, which was and is still pretty rampant of DS. Nintendo have failed to make any positive actions towards that.
They could simply open a download stor for flash carts and make millions. The infrastructure and hardware is already there, all they have to do is open the site. Instead they've gone down humping masses of DRM into the 3DS, including some borderline legal remote control options.

They've ignored the rise of digital download stores and ultra cheap shovelware, until the 3DS gets plenty of both (sadly) it won't be a major success.

Even more so, it wouldn't hurt them to drop the price of the cartridges, cartridges can hold multiple GB of data now and aren't nearly as expensive (relatively) as they were in the N64 days.

Of course, they won't do either. They a Japanese business, so they'll follow the plan right through the gates of Hell before they admit that the plan was wrong.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Ironically, the solid state/"cartridge media" isn't the issue here; it's just Nintendo's extreme over-reliance on its oldest games.

PSP - Metal Gear Solid (original release in 1998)

Available portable: 2009
Game costs: $10
Media: Digital Download (with cross play on PS3)

3DS, Ocarina of Time (Original Release in 1998)

Available portable: 2011
Game costs: $40
Media: Bulky Cartridge

You do know that the storage medium for both of those games is actually the same, right?
Ultimately, both end up on an SD card of some sort; either the unit that came with your PSP, or the SD card variant that Nintendo uses for its 3DS games (which can hold quite a bit of data, actually).

SD tech is a huge BOON for handheld devices, because unlike discs (UMD) there is no mechanical motion involved. Said motion results in much longer load times and it takes MUCH more battery power per unit of data access.

 

[Rad Party God]

Snip.

I don't mean about the general functions the device can do, I mean gaming applications.

Let's see, touch screen?, check, gyroscope?, check, proper sticks and buttons for gaming, check.

I'm perfectly aware that the Vita is not a phone, much less a general purpose device for checking my email, browsing through The Escapist, watching videos on YouTube and whatnot, it would be incredibly stupid to think about it and I even doubt it would be even possible to do such things in a closed platform. What I meant, is that I'm still not entirely sold on pure touch screen and motion controls for a handheld.

 

[Bad Jim]

Jam an SD slot in the back and allow downloads to it or to an hdd on your PC which you can tansfer to the SD card.

Actually the 3DS has an SD slot on the left side. The one I bought had a 2GB card in it. And there are a few games on their virtual store. But it's only a few games.

I really don't think that cartridges are the problem. Unlike music, I rarely feel the need to switch between a dozen different games on the go. Even if I did, they are rather small and I could not afford more cartidges than I could fit into my pocket. Cost is not a problem either because handheld devices cannot match the detail of the PS3, 360 etc and use low detail content with low storage requirements, so the cost of the cartridges will be low.

It really comes down to the lack of content. Even a technically awesome console will fail if there isn't any software.