Censorship is REAL and ADVANCING

[Locust]

yes. it was all about how corporations are evil and therefor you dont have to pay them. I was pointing out that maybe there were people getting hurt that you didn't realise were getting hurt.

No, corporations aren't evil, however the majority of them are simply out to grub your money and if you deny that's the truth, you're very misguided. I'm pretty sure anyone working in a cinema or pressing DVDs is either in a temporary job or they're fairly poor anyway, and I'm also pretty sure that people spending money on DVDs and albums isn't going to make their wages or quality of living any better. McDonalds makes a hell of a lot of cash, but does that make being a McDonalds employee any better and luxurious? Definitely not, their wages and standard of living are just as bad as the previously mentioned jobs, if not worse.

 

[Arcticflame]

Denmark has removed the initial stage, effectively stopping a non-illegal action. To use a metaphor, Instead of legal action against people taking drugs and selling drugs, they have made it illegal to talk to the drug dealer, no matter the context. Which is entirely wrong, and very totalatarian.

Yes, because usually I like to make small talk with drug dealers.

Secondly, the 'slippery slope' argument is seeming to make the rounds here. Sorry guys, but that argument isn't always applicable. I guess since the government says how fast you can drive, they'll be telling us how fast we can eat, and how fast we can walk, and how fast we can take showers! OH MY GOD GEORGE ORWELL WAS RIGHT! QUICK, EVERYONE, SCATTER BEFORE THE GOVERNMENT AGENTS FIND YOUUUUUU!

It's not slippery slope. Slippery slope gives the idea of it leading to bigger things, but entirely different. Slippery slope would be denmark censoring an illegal website. Then they shut down the internet. I am talking about a case of someone having done an action, and now they can repeat it in a different scenario. The precedent is already in place, therefore it's on the same plane, censoring other "illegal" websites isn't different, it's present.

Instead of it being like "you take out a knife, and then it could lead to murder". It's like "you stab someone, you could stab someone again".

Read my above post, it's already around the corner for australia.

Please don't paint me to be a crazy conspiracy theorist. I don't believe in any conspiracy theories, I don't believe the government is out to get me, I honestly believe the government in australia is doing what it is doing in an attempt for the good. I believe however that many of the greatest wrongs in history were done in an attempt for the good.

I am a person who simply disagree with the methods. Nothing more, nothing less.

It is stealing, its quite simple, you are taking something that doesn't belong to you

It is taking something that doesn't belong to you. And it is totally illegal. But piracy is also just so dam complicated when it comes to it, I maintain that piracy is closest to theft of the generic crimes, but it has aspects to it which make it, in my eyes, a different kettle of fish.

Edit - Why am I even arguing about this? I don't know, I don't care about the pirate bay. It matters not to me if I can access it or not, all I care about is the censorship side of things.

 

[jim_doki]

No, corporations aren't evil, however the majority of them are simply out to grub your money and if you deny that's the truth, you're very misguided. I'm pretty sure anyone working in a cinema or pressing DVDs is either in a temporary job or they're fairly poor anyway, and I'm also pretty sure that people spending money on DVDs and albums isn't going to make their wages or quality of living any better. McDonalds makes a hell of a lot of cash, but does that make being a McDonalds employee any better and luxurious? Definitely not, their wages and standard of living are just as bad as the previously mentioned jobs, if not worse.

1, oh dear! A business wants to make money! What is the world coming to
b, are you actually refuting my argument by saying that they're too poor anyway? Seriously? Because they don't make much money and work as hard (or possibly harder) than you do, in your logic, means that they aren't entitled to what little they make?

 

[Marv21]

Censorship=bad
Relgious Censorship=Worse

Why can't we leave everything as it is, the more we uncensor things the less we take offense to such things when they appear!

 

[theultimateend]

Stealing is stealing. encouraging theft is illegal. Saying that you should be allowed to encourage stealing under the basis of free speech is ludicris. the otherer site you mentioned is ANOTHER questionably legal site. by your logic we should be allowed to view child pornography, because despite the fact we are endangering children, somebody has something to say

Consider this: Torrents don't necessarily hurt anyone.

fail

piracy hurts actors, distributers, producers, the poor schmo who presses the DVD's for a living, the projectionist, the ticket collector.

Well I was about to lower myself your your catchy lines "like fail" but I'd like to remind you that all crime exists for a reason.

What we tend to do is merely attack the crime itself without looking at the factors behind the crime. That being said I know your response will likely be something like "These people are just cheap scum" because that's the general close minded view of the situation.

However if we are here to argue that you should never do things because they are illegal then I think we best retroactively jail people who flee'd their slave owners, or refused to move on bus's, or really any other form of activity that at one time was illegal. It sounds ridiculous but if you were to go back in time there were people making your same argument for those activities. "These people are hurting the honest lives of white homegrown Americans."

The thing about piracy I feel at least is that it gives me the means to decide if a product is worth my time. I'm not saying I do it (because I believe most sites ban you outright) but I will say that if it ever stopped existing I'd merely cease purchasing games altogether.

When movies are consistently poor (don't get me wrong there is a beautiful golden apple in every bad batch each year), games are consistently poor, and many artists produce absolute garbage (to fill a CD around the one good title) people become disheartened.

If I can demo something and I like it I buy it. Kanye West's recent CD, about 100 dollars in indie games, Guild Wars just made it onto my list, a few books that I dabbled in before I bought are now shipping to me, all in all in the last half year about two thousand dollars that would have NOT been spent has been because I was able to examine whether the product was worth owning.

I know, i know, 'this is a special case' but I fail to see evidence that links your example to actuality. In general games like SPORE are released that are absolutely sub par and the blame is placed on piraters instead of admitting to producing something that is barely above flash quality (editor aside). I will say however their DS itineration was well worth the purchase . For a portable game it was quirky enough to be fun.

It reminds me of the military. The military spends millions and millions of dollars to sustain many times the amount of nuclear weaponry needed to eliminate all life on the surface of the Earth. Whenever the government cuts the military's budget instead of simply discontinuing some nuclear weaponry (which would in no way hinder the US's defenses because we'd still have enough for a scorched earth response) they cut the wages of their soldiers.

It's a political tool. Much like when the Crytek CEO (or whatever his title was) blamed piracy and consumers own lack of understanding on what is good for their poor sales. He not once admitted that Crysis was only noteworthy in graphics (which I believe is a pretty common opinion). He even went so far as to say that graphics were the most important factor (or one of the most important) factors in gaming which I think shows what is really hurting the industry.

So I know you won't agree with me, and that's not what I'm trying to get you to do, I just want you to sit back and think about what 'causes' a crime instead of how to brute force the criminal.

Before heroine was made illegal there were many people diagnosed to use it (because it was believed to be non-addictive), these people overnight went from victims of a flawed medical system to criminals. This same process has happened multiple times with multiple drugs, yet whenever we speak of the situation we act as if the drug users are the problem.

Henry Ford once said that the job of the Industrialist is to "Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wages possible." These tenets have all been broken and the issue is being masked behind a secondary effect of this.

Thanks for your time and if your response is basically to insult me you might as well not post. (Since that seems to be the theme of this thread) I just wanted to maybe inspire a few people to think outside the box.

PS. For instance in the case of DRM. Starforce (a DRM company) linked to a working torrent of Galactic Civilization II on their own website to make a point to Stardock that you must protect your products or criminals will steal them.

Sales of Galactic Civilization II actually picked up because many people wanted to prove that a high quality product for a reasonable price is what we are all asking for. In fact their most recent expansion is one of the most amazing things I've ever seen in the gaming world. Stardock is one of the only respectable gaming companies on the face of this planet (I feel) in that they are willing to forego brute forcing the consumer and place their faith upon those they work for. It has done nothing but work in their favor . Heck even their digital download service has the option of paying them SnH and they'll send you a hard copy of the game as well as give you instant access to it digitally! Man......I can't say enough good things about people like them...or the World of Goo guys...or basically anyone with games on Greenhouse games (all those developers are amazing).

Anywho back to reading about the 20th century and the evolution of art (Exam on Monday (((()

 

[Simriel]

It starts with things that can be rationalised. Then whatever they WANT to censor becomes censored. Dont like a certain political movement? All their websites are censored. Don't thing that youtube is suitable for us anymore because of some minority content? Censored

 

[s0denone]

i have reasons to suspect this untrue based on my location and experience. i checked this less than 30 seconds ago.

I assume from your phrasing that you are Danish, if so; Give me a head's up, and I'll provide you with several sources in your inbox.

To everyone else
Please check the original post, I've added something rather eerie, at least in my book. State your thoughts, as I'm rather unable to think of anything myself.

 

[Danzaivar]

What makes me laugh is that a government blocks the pirate bay, and you just use a DNS router thing (tunnel) or get a friend to find a torrent for you. When you have the .torrent file itself you can pirate stuff no problem, the very nature of torrents make them hard to stop.

I'm sure in 20 years or so, the big music companies and the like will just accept that file sharing happens, and they'll either adapt their business model or they'll fall. They try to fight market forces, it won't last.

[edit: What doesn't make me laugh however, is governments around the world getting more and more Orwellian. That's not a laughing matter, least of all cos it keeps adding weight to the NWO conspiracy theorists, and they're annoying.]

 

[Simriel]

Stealing is stealing. encouraging theft is illegal. Saying that you should be allowed to encourage stealing under the basis of free speech is ludicris. the otherer site you mentioned is ANOTHER questionably legal site. by your logic we should be allowed to view child pornography, because despite the fact we are endangering children, somebody has something to say

Consider this: Torrents don't necessarily hurt anyone.

fail

piracy hurts actors, distributers, producers, the poor schmo who presses the DVD's for a living, the projectionist, the ticket collector.

Well I was about to lower myself your your catchy lines "like fail" but I'd like to remind you that all crime exists for a reason.

What we tend to do is merely attack the crime itself without looking at the factors behind the crime. That being said I know your response will likely be something like "These people are just cheap scum" because that's the general close minded view of the situation.

However if we are here to argue that you should never do things because they are illegal then I think we best retroactively jail people who flee'd their slave owners, or refused to move on bus's, or really any other form of activity that at one time was illegal. It sounds ridiculous but if you were to go back in time there were people making your same argument for those activities. "These people are hurting the honest lives of white homegrown Americans."

The thing about piracy I feel at least is that it gives me the means to decide if a product is worth my time. I'm not saying I do it (because I believe most sites ban you outright) but I will say that if it ever stopped existing I'd merely cease purchasing games altogether.

When movies are consistently poor (don't get me wrong there is a beautiful golden apple in every bad batch each year), games are consistently poor, and many artists produce absolute garbage (to fill a CD around the one good title) people become disheartened.

If I can demo something and I like it I buy it. Kanye West's recent CD, about 100 dollars in indie games, Guild Wars just made it onto my list, a few books that I dabbled in before I bought are now shipping to me, all in all in the last half year about two thousand dollars that would have NOT been spent has been because I was able to examine whether the product was worth owning.

I know, i know, 'this is a special case' but I fail to see evidence that links your example to actuality. In general games like SPORE are released that are absolutely sub par and the blame is placed on piraters instead of admitting to producing something that is barely above flash quality (editor aside). I will say however their DS itineration was well worth the purchase . For a portable game it was quirky enough to be fun.

It reminds me of the military. The military spends millions and millions of dollars to sustain many times the amount of nuclear weaponry needed to eliminate all life on the surface of the Earth. Whenever the government cuts the military's budget instead of simply discontinuing some nuclear weaponry (which would in no way hinder the US's defenses because we'd still have enough for a scorched earth response) they cut the wages of their soldiers.

It's a political tool. Much like when the Crytek CEO (or whatever his title was) blamed piracy and consumers own lack of understanding on what is good for their poor sales. He not once admitted that Crysis was only noteworthy in graphics (which I believe is a pretty common opinion). He even went so far as to say that graphics were the most important factor (or one of the most important) factors in gaming which I think shows what is really hurting the industry.

So I know you won't agree with me, and that's not what I'm trying to get you to do, I just want you to sit back and think about what 'causes' a crime instead of how to brute force the criminal.

Before heroine was made illegal there were many people diagnosed to use it (because it was believed to be non-addictive), these people overnight went from victims of a flawed medical system to criminals. This same process has happened multiple times with multiple drugs, yet whenever we speak of the situation we act as if the drug users are the problem.

Henry Ford once said that the job of the Industrialist is to "Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wages possible." These tenets have all been broken and the issue is being masked behind a secondary effect of this.

Thanks for your time and if your response is basically to insult me you might as well not post. (Since that seems to be the theme of this thread) I just wanted to maybe inspire a few people to think outside the box.

This person is god. Give them a crown. NOW!

 

[joystickjunki3]

To avoid all censorship, you could always start your own ISP. jk jk

 

[stompy]

Under what reasoning did they (the Danish government) censor 'The Pirate Bay'? Depending on the reason given, this case could be used as a precedent for further censorship, or just pirate sites.

 

[Sporky111]

Censorship would never fly, especially in Canada. If our government decided to censor a large portion of the internet and make it illegal to view, we would boot them out of office before they could finish the public report.

People should censor for themselves, it is only their fault if they see something they don't like. The government should stay out of it.

 

[DoW Lowen]

Australia is heading straight down the same path.

Ironic isn't it? Denmark and Australia were voted highest on the list of "democratic" and "free" countries in the world.

 

[jim_doki]

Stealing is stealing. encouraging theft is illegal. Saying that you should be allowed to encourage stealing under the basis of free speech is ludicris. the otherer site you mentioned is ANOTHER questionably legal site. by your logic we should be allowed to view child pornography, because despite the fact we are endangering children, somebody has something to say

Consider this: Torrents don't necessarily hurt anyone.

fail

piracy hurts actors, distributers, producers, the poor schmo who presses the DVD's for a living, the projectionist, the ticket collector.

Well I was about to lower myself your your catchy lines "like fail" but I'd like to remind you that all crime exists for a reason.

What we tend to do is merely attack the crime itself without looking at the factors behind the crime. That being said I know your response will likely be something like "These people are just cheap scum" because that's the general close minded view of the situation.

However if we are here to argue that you should never do things because they are illegal then I think we best retroactively jail people who flee'd their slave owners, or refused to move on bus's, or really any other form of activity that at one time was illegal. It sounds ridiculous but if you were to go back in time there were people making your same argument for those activities. "These people are hurting the honest lives of white homegrown Americans."

The thing about piracy I feel at least is that it gives me the means to decide if a product is worth my time. I'm not saying I do it (because I believe most sites ban you outright) but I will say that if it ever stopped existing I'd merely cease purchasing games altogether.

When movies are consistently poor (don't get me wrong there is a beautiful golden apple in every bad batch each year), games are consistently poor, and many artists produce absolute garbage (to fill a CD around the one good title) people become disheartened.

If I can demo something and I like it I buy it. Kanye West's recent CD, about 100 dollars in indie games, Guild Wars just made it onto my list, a few books that I dabbled in before I bought are now shipping to me, all in all in the last half year about two thousand dollars that would have NOT been spent has been because I was able to examine whether the product was worth owning.

I know, i know, 'this is a special case' but I fail to see evidence that links your example to actuality. In general games like SPORE are released that are absolutely sub par and the blame is placed on piraters instead of admitting to producing something that is barely above flash quality (editor aside). I will say however their DS itineration was well worth the purchase . For a portable game it was quirky enough to be fun.

It reminds me of the military. The military spends millions and millions of dollars to sustain many times the amount of nuclear weaponry needed to eliminate all life on the surface of the Earth. Whenever the government cuts the military's budget instead of simply discontinuing some nuclear weaponry (which would in no way hinder the US's defenses because we'd still have enough for a scorched earth response) they cut the wages of their soldiers.

It's a political tool. Much like when the Crytek CEO (or whatever his title was) blamed piracy and consumers own lack of understanding on what is good for their poor sales. He not once admitted that Crysis was only noteworthy in graphics (which I believe is a pretty common opinion). He even went so far as to say that graphics were the most important factor (or one of the most important) factors in gaming which I think shows what is really hurting the industry.

So I know you won't agree with me, and that's not what I'm trying to get you to do, I just want you to sit back and think about what 'causes' a crime instead of how to brute force the criminal.

Before heroine was made illegal there were many people diagnosed to use it (because it was believed to be non-addictive), these people overnight went from victims of a flawed medical system to criminals. This same process has happened multiple times with multiple drugs, yet whenever we speak of the situation we act as if the drug users are the problem.

Henry Ford once said that the job of the Industrialist is to "Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wages possible." These tenets have all been broken and the issue is being masked behind a secondary effect of this.

Thanks for your time and if your response is basically to insult me you might as well not post. (Since that seems to be the theme of this thread) I just wanted to maybe inspire a few people to think outside the box.

TLR, If it's not good I shouldn't have to pay for it, therefore it's ok to steal it. It's totally in the same league as oppressive slave owners and it's missunderstood on the same level as missapplied medicine.

you do make some interesting points, and I appreciate the effort made in directing such a longwinded and intelligent post. You are to be commended and I hope you stay at the site for a long time. The fact is that piracy has forced Hollywood into a position where they are afraid to take risks. by pirating, you are scaring them into a point where they are doing things that are pretty much promised their money back. they dont have a choice. I recommend you take a risk with the next film you are interested in and pay for it, regardless of who made it

 

[s0denone]

Under what reasoning did they (the Danish government) censor 'The Pirate Bay'? Depending on the reason given, this case could be used as a precedent for further censorship, or just pirate sites.

They placed the blame of filesharing on the ISPs, thus forcing them to shut off the torrent site, or get heavily fined.

Australia is heading straight down the same path.

Ironic isn't it? Denmark and Australia were voted highest on the list of "democratic" and "free" countries in the world.

That is actually quite ironic.

 

[theultimateend]

Stealing is stealing. encouraging theft is illegal. Saying that you should be allowed to encourage stealing under the basis of free speech is ludicris. the otherer site you mentioned is ANOTHER questionably legal site. by your logic we should be allowed to view child pornography, because despite the fact we are endangering children, somebody has something to say

Consider this: Torrents don't necessarily hurt anyone.

fail

piracy hurts actors, distributers, producers, the poor schmo who presses the DVD's for a living, the projectionist, the ticket collector.

Well I was about to lower myself your your catchy lines "like fail" but I'd like to remind you that all crime exists for a reason.

What we tend to do is merely attack the crime itself without looking at the factors behind the crime. That being said I know your response will likely be something like "These people are just cheap scum" because that's the general close minded view of the situation.

However if we are here to argue that you should never do things because they are illegal then I think we best retroactively jail people who flee'd their slave owners, or refused to move on bus's, or really any other form of activity that at one time was illegal. It sounds ridiculous but if you were to go back in time there were people making your same argument for those activities. "These people are hurting the honest lives of white homegrown Americans."

The thing about piracy I feel at least is that it gives me the means to decide if a product is worth my time. I'm not saying I do it (because I believe most sites ban you outright) but I will say that if it ever stopped existing I'd merely cease purchasing games altogether.

When movies are consistently poor (don't get me wrong there is a beautiful golden apple in every bad batch each year), games are consistently poor, and many artists produce absolute garbage (to fill a CD around the one good title) people become disheartened.

If I can demo something and I like it I buy it. Kanye West's recent CD, about 100 dollars in indie games, Guild Wars just made it onto my list, a few books that I dabbled in before I bought are now shipping to me, all in all in the last half year about two thousand dollars that would have NOT been spent has been because I was able to examine whether the product was worth owning.

I know, i know, 'this is a special case' but I fail to see evidence that links your example to actuality. In general games like SPORE are released that are absolutely sub par and the blame is placed on piraters instead of admitting to producing something that is barely above flash quality (editor aside). I will say however their DS itineration was well worth the purchase . For a portable game it was quirky enough to be fun.

It reminds me of the military. The military spends millions and millions of dollars to sustain many times the amount of nuclear weaponry needed to eliminate all life on the surface of the Earth. Whenever the government cuts the military's budget instead of simply discontinuing some nuclear weaponry (which would in no way hinder the US's defenses because we'd still have enough for a scorched earth response) they cut the wages of their soldiers.

It's a political tool. Much like when the Crytek CEO (or whatever his title was) blamed piracy and consumers own lack of understanding on what is good for their poor sales. He not once admitted that Crysis was only noteworthy in graphics (which I believe is a pretty common opinion). He even went so far as to say that graphics were the most important factor (or one of the most important) factors in gaming which I think shows what is really hurting the industry.

So I know you won't agree with me, and that's not what I'm trying to get you to do, I just want you to sit back and think about what 'causes' a crime instead of how to brute force the criminal.

Before heroine was made illegal there were many people diagnosed to use it (because it was believed to be non-addictive), these people overnight went from victims of a flawed medical system to criminals. This same process has happened multiple times with multiple drugs, yet whenever we speak of the situation we act as if the drug users are the problem.

Henry Ford once said that the job of the Industrialist is to "Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wages possible." These tenets have all been broken and the issue is being masked behind a secondary effect of this.

Thanks for your time and if your response is basically to insult me you might as well not post. (Since that seems to be the theme of this thread) I just wanted to maybe inspire a few people to think outside the box.

TLR, If it's not good I shouldn't have to pay for it, therefore it's ok to steal it. It's totally in the same league as oppressive slave owners and it's missunderstood on the same level as missapplied medicine.

you do make some interesting points, and I appreciate the effort made in directing such a longwinded and intelligent post. You are to be commended and I hope you stay at the site for a long time. The fact is that piracy has forced Hollywood into a position where they are afraid to take risks. by pirating, you are scaring them into a point where they are doing things that are pretty much promised their money back. they dont have a choice. I recommend you take a risk with the next film you are interested in and pay for it, regardless of who made it

[rant]

If people are possess attention spans that they cannot read what I said then they should just never know. This TLR phenomenon is absolutely ridiculous. It's one of the major annoyances I have about the internet these days. It's another reason I detest MLA and APA format, I should NOT tell you the exact page in a journal entry I found my information on. Because information is easily misconstrued, instead you should (like I) read the entire article to get a better understanding of the information. I refuse to believe anyone on the internet is so short on time that they can't read a few paragraphs. If people are that busy they aren't on a gaming forum.

[/rant]

While it may be my opinion but any form of entertainment stops taking risks the moment "Industry" is slapped onto the end of it.

The Music Industry
The Movie Industry
The Gaming Industry

The moment it becomes an industry it no longer takes risks. This has been true long before piracy was even a blip on the radar.

But again it is a good scape goat, it's one of the better ones they've used. Just like they used to blame the cost of stocking shelves with products for the cost increase in games and then when companies switched to digital media downloads the cost didn't drop at all. In fact now I can many times get games cheaper by buying a physical copy than by owning an ethereal one that may or may not work when the company eventually goes under.

 

[Locust]

1, oh dear! A business wants to make money! What is the world coming to

When a business puts money above enjoyment and innovation, yes, they're corrupt and don't deserve anything. When they willingly put out badly made products and overprice them because they know that the average, uneducated person will fork out the cash for them, no, they don't deserve shit. When a company puts effort, care and thought into their product with a user's enjoyment in mind, they deserve every penny they get.

b, are you actually refuting my argument by saying that they're too poor anyway? Seriously? Because they don't make much money and work as hard (or possibly harder) than you do, in your logic, means that they aren't entitled to what little they make?

I'm refuting your argument by saying that if you think people paying for these things is going to increase their wages and their quality of living, you're wrong. Companies hire these people because they work cheap, just because a lot of customers have paid for their products, it doesn't mean they're going to increase the wages of their cheap workers just to be nice.

 

[sneakypenguin]

yeah, um, it's a PIRACY site. it's designed to steal things. I don't think you would get away with blatently stealing things under the grounds of free speech

This, I mean it's not like they censored some news or other site. It's a freaking pirating website, no big loss. Granted i'm not big on banning things, but really I don't feel this is censorship in the traditional sense.

 

[theultimateend]

1, oh dear! A business wants to make money! What is the world coming to

When a business puts money above enjoyment and innovation, yes, they're corrupt and don't deserve anything. When they willingly put out badly made products and overprice them because they know that the average, uneducated person will fork out the cash for them, no, they don't deserve shit. When a company puts effort, care and thought into their product with a user's enjoyment in mind, they deserve every penny they get.

b, are you actually refuting my argument by saying that they're too poor anyway? Seriously? Because they don't make much money and work as hard (or possibly harder) than you do, in your logic, means that they aren't entitled to what little they make?

I'm refuting your argument by saying that if you think people paying for these things is going to increase their wages and their quality of living, you're wrong. Companies hire these people because they work cheap, just because a lot of customers have paid for their products, it doesn't mean they're going to increase the wages of their cheap workers just to be nice.

In fact there is no correlation between the income a business makes and the wages they pay their employees. They work in almost all cases entirely independent (at least every report I've ever read showed that). I'm quite certain if not for minimum wage most businesses would pay their employees even less because it helps them garner more money from nothing.

People look for the easy buck and cutting the pay of your employees does just that.

 

[theultimateend]

yeah, um, it's a PIRACY site. it's designed to steal things. I don't think you would get away with blatently stealing things under the grounds of free speech

This, I mean it's not like they censored some news or other site. It's a freaking pirating website, no big loss. Granted i'm not big on banning things, but really I don't feel this is censorship in the traditional sense.

The question is where do you draw the line? What is ok to censor and what is not?