Censorship is REAL and ADVANCING

[mattttherman3]

Once the governments have full control of the worlds information, and sensore anything deemed to be bad for the public, you won't need to hear about transparency, because you won't know fact from fiction.

 

[cleverlymadeup]

3. The pirate bay also has legal permission to host trackers and has no direct relationship with pirates, what's your point there? It's just the name of a site that provides a P2P bittorent service.

actually that legality is thru a loop hole in sweedish law, this is the ONLY reason why they are operating. if they weren't in Sweeden they'd have been arrested and shut down a long time ago

I highly doubt it. Providing the opportunity to choose to act illegal, is not illegal in itself. If it were, you would have to ban life.

no it's true they often flaunt it in many many interviews they've given, that's why they are still up and running, it's their main theme

and yes intent is part of breaking the law, there is such a thing called "attempted" in the law books, such as attempted break and enter, attempted murder, attempted assault and attempted rape

You know, there ARE developers who develop free software. Also, there are those who distribute clients, or programs that require registration. Why have a huge, expensive server, when you can have the entire world, as your server. P2P is by man described as the future in networking - hell, look at the "Folding at Home" initiative, which is very similar.

ok but what does p2p distribution have to do with a site that hosts links to illegal downloads? there is sourceforge and steam

you're argument is a massive pile of fail and actually has NO relevance to the discussion, you are seriously grabbing at straws here

so i ask again "name me ONE developer who releases their software on piratebay or any similar site?"

the simple answer is you can but there are FREE services for developers to host their files on, one happens to be called sourceforge, it's been around for about 10 years

It's still censorship. When communism was considered illegal in the United States, were pro-communist articles and such not censored? Censorship can easily be directed towards what is illegal(even though, it is not, in this case with thepiratebay, just following your reasoning), and indeed almost always is.

yes and all those ppl were also let go after they were found to have their rights violated

so i'm guessing you also think censoring child porn is a bad idea, i mean it's censorship so therefore it has to be a bad thing

and no you weren't following my reason, you are trying to use truthiness and failing miserably at it

and no the pirate bay is illegal except for in Sweeden, in america and other countries they've been found to violate copyright laws as they allow you to break the law

And there is. You saying that there's not, doesn't make it any less true.

you've yet to offer me any proof of what you're claiming, i happen to actually know what i'm talking about

Plus intent is simply not illegal. If you intent to rob an conveninance store, but never do so, you have not committed an illegal act. You will not be punished by law.
If you intend to kill someone, well, you might receive punishment by law, but it won't nearly be the same as had you actually carried it through.

actually it can be considered illegal and has been in many cases

taking some basic law classes in high school are pretty handy and so is having lawyers and cops as friends, both of which i have/done

Well, it certainly is, but it doesn't legitimize your argument one bit. I have lawyers and cops as friends as well, and I present the opposite statement.

no you present something that is totally incorrect and has actual no proof, i've asked you to name me any developer who releases on bittorrent trackers such as the piratebay and it's ilk and you've danced around the subject more than the national russian ballet

 

[theultimateend]

no you present something that is totally incorrect and has actual no proof, i've asked you to name me any developer who releases on bittorrent trackers such as the piratebay and it's ilk and you've danced around the subject more than the national russian ballet

I can't grab you any developers off the cuff but I can provide you with a band (or 200 well that would take time) right now?

I'd provide you a direct screenshot but the site is down atm (Take that as a lie if you want but if you google you'll see its down). The site starts with a D and ends with a D . I don't want to say the name because I don't know what escapist would ban me for haha.

"Hello madness - Light and life after dusk"

Likewise I've got many more. Tons of bands do it because it provides people with their music and if you like it you can donate to them to keep them afloat.

Still I don't see the relevance of this discussion because the moment you let censorship slide for one thing it'll start sliding for others. Precedence is a dangerous thing.

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
- Benjamin Franklin

 

[cleverlymadeup]

no you present something that is totally incorrect and has actual no proof, i've asked you to name me any developer who releases on bittorrent trackers such as the piratebay and it's ilk and you've danced around the subject more than the national russian ballet

I can't grab you any developers off the cuff but I can provide you with a band (or 200 well that would take time) right now?

I'd provide you a direct screenshot but the site is down atm (Take that as a lie if you want but if you google you'll see its down). The site starts with a D and ends with a D . I don't want to say the name because I don't know what escapist would ban me for haha.

oh you mean demonoid? who's site was taken offline by CRI for violating the law?

oh and those donations didn't go to musicians, they went to the site's owners to cover costs

Likewise I've got many more. Tons of bands do it because it provides people with their music and if you like it you can donate to them to keep them afloat.

Still I don't see the relevance of this discussion because the moment you let censorship slide for one thing it'll start sliding for others. Precedence is a dangerous thing.

please name any sites with actual PROOF, not just a "donate" link, which goes tot he site's owners not the musicians.

so i'm guessing you think that censoring child porn is a bad thing too? cause we've certainly let it slide for that and now we've let it slide for something else, what a slippery slope we are going down

 

[Consistence]

censorship is only justified if it helps the people own end's not the governments

 

[theultimateend]

no you present something that is totally incorrect and has actual no proof, i've asked you to name me any developer who releases on bittorrent trackers such as the piratebay and it's ilk and you've danced around the subject more than the national russian ballet

I can't grab you any developers off the cuff but I can provide you with a band (or 200 well that would take time) right now?

I'd provide you a direct screenshot but the site is down atm (Take that as a lie if you want but if you google you'll see its down). The site starts with a D and ends with a D . I don't want to say the name because I don't know what escapist would ban me for haha.

oh you mean demonoid? who's site was taken offline by CRI for violating the law?

oh and those donations didn't go to musicians, they went to the site's owners to cover costs

Likewise I've got many more. Tons of bands do it because it provides people with their music and if you like it you can donate to them to keep them afloat.

Still I don't see the relevance of this discussion because the moment you let censorship slide for one thing it'll start sliding for others. Precedence is a dangerous thing.

please name any sites with actual PROOF, not just a "donate" link, which goes tot he site's owners not the musicians.

so i'm guessing you think that censoring child porn is a bad thing too? cause we've certainly let it slide for that and now we've let it slide for something else, what a slippery slope we are going down

So my question is what has censoring child porn done? Has it lessened child porn? How about the fact that the US has strict laws against tradining with nations that have sex slavery rings yet they have ignored the fact that Thailand has the worlds largest sex slavery ring because we receive too many cheap goods from them.

BUT regardless. This is much like walking into a church and arguing with the preacher about god. If you are going to be so close minded about the topic (and erroneous I might add) then there is no reason for us to have a discussion.

Censoring something is not the same as fixing it. I find it cute that you think throwing child porn out there suddenly makes your point right (since censoring it has done nothing to make it go away or even limited its wide spread).

As I said before, crime exists for reasons, you should first look to what is causing it before you attempt to fix it. You however appear to not even be trying that in the slightest.

 

[LewsTherin]

Look, I can see where you're coming from, but I have 2 questions:
1)Is piracy illegal in Denmark?
2)Is free speech an explicitly granted right or an implied right in Denmark?

The way I see it, if the answer to 1 is No, then they had no right. If it's yes, then they did, because they're only blocking what is against the law to them. It's quite a leap to go from blocking something totally illegal and blocking a legit site.

Oh, and 2 had nothing to do with my argument, I'm just curious, I've heard a lot of countries only have it as an implied right.

But of course they will just start censoring everything, because it's the GOVERNMENT! It's obviously what they do. I mean,all these poor pirates wanted to do was distribute their cracked games and movies in peace, but then the man breaks in with there whole law deal and harshed on our cool, amirite? Srsly, if someone wants to steal something, it's totally in they're rights, leik, free speech and everything, rite? It's all the governments fault, leik everything else. I mean, if something is crap, I shouldn't have to pay for it, amirite? The big corporations are just gonna use the money to enslave the third world and stuff instead of paying there workers and stuff, amirite? IT'S ALL A CONSPIRACY!11!!one!!!eleventy!

I think I've reached my vitrol quota for the day.

 

[Avatar Roku]

Look, I can see where you're coming from, but I have 2 questions:
1)Is piracy illegal in Denmark?
2)Is free speech an explicitly granted right or an implied right in Denmark?

The way I see it, if the answer to 1 is No, then they had no right. If it's yes, then they did, because they're only blocking what is against the law to them. It's quite a leap to go from blocking something totally illegal and blocking a legit site.

Oh, and 2 had nothing to do with my argument, I'm just curious, I've heard a lot of countries only have it as an implied right.

But of course they will just start censoring everything, because it's the GOVERNMENT! It's obviously what they do. I mean,all these poor pirates wanted to do was distribute their cracked games and movies in peace, but then the man breaks in with there whole law deal and harshed on our cool, amirite? Srsly, if someone wants to steal something, it's totally in they're rights, leik, free speech and everything, rite? It's all the governments fault, leik everything else. I mean, if something is crap, I shouldn't have to pay for it, amirite? The big corporations are just gonna use the money to enslave the third world and stuff instead of paying there workers and stuff, amirite? IT'S ALL A CONSPIRACY!11!!one!!!eleventy!

I think I've reached my vitrol quota for the day.

God I hope that was a joke. If it was, well done parody.

 

[LewsTherin]

Look, I can see where you're coming from, but I have 2 questions:
1)Is piracy illegal in Denmark?
2)Is free speech an explicitly granted right or an implied right in Denmark?

The way I see it, if the answer to 1 is No, then they had no right. If it's yes, then they did, because they're only blocking what is against the law to them. It's quite a leap to go from blocking something totally illegal and blocking a legit site.

Oh, and 2 had nothing to do with my argument, I'm just curious, I've heard a lot of countries only have it as an implied right.

But of course they will just start censoring everything, because it's the GOVERNMENT! It's obviously what they do. I mean,all these poor pirates wanted to do was distribute their cracked games and movies in peace, but then the man breaks in with there whole law deal and harshed on our cool, amirite? Srsly, if someone wants to steal something, it's totally in they're rights, leik, free speech and everything, rite? It's all the governments fault, leik everything else. I mean, if something is crap, I shouldn't have to pay for it, amirite? The big corporations are just gonna use the money to enslave the third world and stuff instead of paying there workers and stuff, amirite? IT'S ALL A CONSPIRACY!11!!one!!!eleventy!

I think I've reached my vitrol quota for the day.

God I hope that was a joke. If it was, well done parody.

One does ones best *bow*

 

[Baby Tea]

yeah, um, it's a PIRACY site. it's designed to steal things. I don't think you would get away with blatently stealing things under the grounds of free speech

6th post down, dead on the money, /thread.

This isn't some free-speech blog or wikipedia they are banning (Unlike China), it's a PIRACY site.
Sheesh.

 

[theultimateend]

yeah, um, it's a PIRACY site. it's designed to steal things. I don't think you would get away with blatently stealing things under the grounds of free speech

6th post down, dead on the money, /thread.

This isn't some free-speech blog or wikipedia they are banning (Unlike China), it's a PIRACY site.
Sheesh.

My response still prevails.

Where do you draw the line.

 

[Baby Tea]

yeah, um, it's a PIRACY site. it's designed to steal things. I don't think you would get away with blatently stealing things under the grounds of free speech

6th post down, dead on the money, /thread.

This isn't some free-speech blog or wikipedia they are banning (Unlike China), it's a PIRACY site.
Sheesh.

My response still prevails.

Where do you draw the line.

Uhh, where is the prevalence?
Because a government blocked a website promoting an illegal activity, the line is suddenly blurred?
How about the line is still OBVIOUSLY right in between illegal, and lawful act and speech. Where it should be.

 

[Avatar Roku]

Look, I can see where you're coming from, but I have 2 questions:
1)Is piracy illegal in Denmark?
2)Is free speech an explicitly granted right or an implied right in Denmark?

The way I see it, if the answer to 1 is No, then they had no right. If it's yes, then they did, because they're only blocking what is against the law to them. It's quite a leap to go from blocking something totally illegal and blocking a legit site.

Oh, and 2 had nothing to do with my argument, I'm just curious, I've heard a lot of countries only have it as an implied right.

But of course they will just start censoring everything, because it's the GOVERNMENT! It's obviously what they do. I mean,all these poor pirates wanted to do was distribute their cracked games and movies in peace, but then the man breaks in with there whole law deal and harshed on our cool, amirite? Srsly, if someone wants to steal something, it's totally in they're rights, leik, free speech and everything, rite? It's all the governments fault, leik everything else. I mean, if something is crap, I shouldn't have to pay for it, amirite? The big corporations are just gonna use the money to enslave the third world and stuff instead of paying there workers and stuff, amirite? IT'S ALL A CONSPIRACY!11!!one!!!eleventy!

I think I've reached my vitrol quota for the day.

That's a very constructive statement.

Please tell me that was sarcasm, as the post you're quoting was a joke.

 

[theultimateend]

yeah, um, it's a PIRACY site. it's designed to steal things. I don't think you would get away with blatently stealing things under the grounds of free speech

6th post down, dead on the money, /thread.

This isn't some free-speech blog or wikipedia they are banning (Unlike China), it's a PIRACY site.
Sheesh.

My response still prevails.

Where do you draw the line.

Uhh, where is the prevalence?
Because a government blocked a website promoting an illegal activity, the line is suddenly blurred?
How about the line is still OBVIOUSLY right in between illegal, and lawful act and speech. Where it should be.

Just because something is illegal does not mean that it should be blocked. If not only for the fact that censorship does nothing to fix a problem (it merely moves it somewhere else) but that in general things that are censored are censored because people don't want to come to terms with whatever the activity is to help alleviate it.

you are proposing a simple fix that in reality does nothing to fix a problem. I'm proposing that moving your turd from the toilet to the trash can does nothing to make that turd any less of a turd. You should instead figure out why you couldn't flush the turd and look to alleviate the issue in the future.

Just because you can type in caps doesn't make your point any more relevant. Because what to you might be an illegal act to others may be a form of free speech. Much like how artwork in the past was a form of speech that could get you put in prison (then again it still can be) I ask you definitively where to draw the line.

When is speech speech and when is a crime a crime. We can sit here and be ambiguous all day but the fact is censorship is never ok. Ever. It does nothing to fix a problem and all it does is create precedence for abusing the power.

 

[Arcticflame]

actually it is as there is something called intent, you are only going to find illegal stuff to download, therefore visiting it makes it illegal. just because you don't think it isn't doesn't make it any less so

taking some basic law classes in high school are pretty handy and so is having lawyers and cops as friends, both of which i have/done

And visiting the website isn't intent.
There are legal torrents on the pirate bay too. Therefore you cannot prove intent.
I did legal studies in High School as well, It doesn't mean Im some guru when it coems to law, but that isn't a very difficult one.

 

[Deadman Walkin]

I believe the government has to much control over us, including what we hear. I truly believe piracy isn't helping the economy, but it a major thorn in the governments side. How can they stop it? It is unstoppable, there are too many places/people involved. I am sure that drives the government off the wall that they can not control us.