CHALLENGE: strongest species in the galaxy
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It's a pointless arguement since in the final equasion we wind up with omnipotent species, and discussions about who is more omnipotent.
Someone mentioned Star Trek's "Q continuum" however it's mentioned that the "Q" are not truely omnipotent, they merely seem that way to far less advanced species. They are similar to the Star Gate universes "Ascended" on a lot of levels who we also learn are only omnipotent as a matter of perspective. Then we have similar concepts that get obscure like the old "Manhunter RPG" and the "Mulka" who are again very similar in concept. When "White Wolf" started having it's "Aeonverse" fall apart conceptually we were likewise introduced to Aberrants who could do things like inflict extinction with a single die roll, create and destroy universes, and the like... opening up wonderful questions about what would happen if some Quantum 20 Aberrant decided to travel to say "World Of Darkness" and remove a metaphysical concept like "The Wyrm" from reality just for fun... pretty much rules for RPing what "Q" or "Ascended" are supposed to be like... though perhaps more powerful because I don't think either of those races can actually create or destroy universes outright, or use an abillity like "extinction" the same way (though they could achiece similar effects through more brute force means like simply blowing up a planet... which Aberrants of that level can also do incidently).
Basically the only way to have a serious discussion on this is going to involve the biggest geeks on the site making arguements against each other based on what one omnipotent seeming race apparently can't do, as opposed to what they can do... and that is going to go well out of context of this discussion very, very quickly.
... sort of like the old confrontation of "ideas" that Morpheus has with a demon in hell to regain his helmet. They both name things in an increasing cycle of what is stronger, we wind up with Entropy (if I remember) and Morpheus wins by mentioning "Hope"... and as a result earns the enimity of The Devil. We start out naming things, and then wind up argueing in terms of concepts and ideas.
Someone mentioned Star Trek's "Q continuum" however it's mentioned that the "Q" are not truely omnipotent, they merely seem that way to far less advanced species. They are similar to the Star Gate universes "Ascended" on a lot of levels who we also learn are only omnipotent as a matter of perspective. Then we have similar concepts that get obscure like the old "Manhunter RPG" and the "Mulka" who are again very similar in concept. When "White Wolf" started having it's "Aeonverse" fall apart conceptually we were likewise introduced to Aberrants who could do things like inflict extinction with a single die roll, create and destroy universes, and the like... opening up wonderful questions about what would happen if some Quantum 20 Aberrant decided to travel to say "World Of Darkness" and remove a metaphysical concept like "The Wyrm" from reality just for fun... pretty much rules for RPing what "Q" or "Ascended" are supposed to be like... though perhaps more powerful because I don't think either of those races can actually create or destroy universes outright, or use an abillity like "extinction" the same way (though they could achiece similar effects through more brute force means like simply blowing up a planet... which Aberrants of that level can also do incidently).
Basically the only way to have a serious discussion on this is going to involve the biggest geeks on the site making arguements against each other based on what one omnipotent seeming race apparently can't do, as opposed to what they can do... and that is going to go well out of context of this discussion very, very quickly.
... sort of like the old confrontation of "ideas" that Morpheus has with a demon in hell to regain his helmet. They both name things in an increasing cycle of what is stronger, we wind up with Entropy (if I remember) and Morpheus wins by mentioning "Hope"... and as a result earns the enimity of The Devil. We start out naming things, and then wind up argueing in terms of concepts and ideas.
So as long as hes not killed by any necron, an atillary bombardment, caught in an exterminatus, or while on board a ship in ship to ship combat he carnt die?theSovietConnection said:I think everyone who mentions Warhammer 40000 has forgotten one important entity of the Chaos realm
Lucius the Eternal, for lack of a better descriptor, simply can't die. Sure, it is possible to defeat him, and it has happened many times before. However, the moment his killer takes even the tiniest amount of enthusiasm, satisfaction, or pleasure from Lucius' death, he takes root, and slowly the killer transforms, until Lucius is back amongst the living, and his killer is now merely another screaming face in Lucius' power armor.
In response to this, I'm going to say the flood. The one thing that defeated the second to ultimate being in the Halo Universe.sooperman said:
"One single flood spore can destroy an entire species"
I think they have some ground in this battle against omnipotent beings.
I know, read further into the topic and you would have seen that.Naeo said:
You're thinking of the Elder Things which created and then were destroyed by the Shoggoths. The Elder's were simply a race of creatures, more advanced than humanity but still mortal. The Great Old Ones are outside the cycle of life and death.Commissar Sae said:
They are the ones that shall destroy us all. To know more than that is to stare into the abyss and know just how pathetic and wretched us frail little mortals are. Best leave ancient scripts alone while you stand maintain that thin veneer of hope.Ascarus said:
*flexes Geek Muscles*
Any single Universe in which any Fiction is played out has its own Rules and its own "Overpowered" Race so to speak.
In Dragonball, or rather Dragonball Z the actual End was supposed to be the Freeza Saga, therefore Son Goku was supposed to be the only Super Sayjan to exist. Not Vegeta, not Gohan, not Trunks etc pp. That was added later on because the Series didnt stop where it should have, so the Enemies got stronger and they added more and more "Forms" of Super Sayjans, like 2, 3 and 4, Ultra etc. At some Point it just got ridiculous.
In Warhammer 40K, all Races, despite their own Drawbacks and Advantages are fairly equal. Games Workshop will of course keep it that Way. They do favour Space Marines of course, which is very easy to see. But they are not going to make one Race powerful enough to wipe out the others.
For example, if the Chaos Gods would all combine their Powers, and equally all the Traitor Legions would once again form a Crusade which would rival the original Horus Heresy (No the current 13 Crusades havent reached that) Then yes, all other Races are basicly done for. Because the Emperor could not stop another Horus, let alone one of the demonic Primarchs. So if that were to happen, the Imperium falls.
If the Tyranids would attack in Force, yes their current 3 Hive Fleets are impressive and powerful, they are NOT their entire Force. By default the Tyranids are either fleeing some other, even more terrible Enemy or are drawn by the light of the Astronomican, which is powered by the Emperor's own Psychic Powers. Again if they were to show up in full Force, then you can kiss your Ass goodbye.
The same goes for Necrons, if all the Tomb Worlds across the Galaxy would rise at the exact same Point and attack in full Force every living Species, they would at the very least wipe out a few of them. However they are driven by the C'Than, and while only 4 are fully known to exist, each is planning something different. If of course they would focus on a common Enemy, again, good night at that point.
Every other Species has its Turning Point that, if they would achieve it, they would instantly win the entire War. The Imperium just needs to get back its full Technology from the Dark Age of Technology, if they achieved that Level again, or got very close to it, no other Species has a Chance, because at the height of its Power, the Imperium could hold all other Forces at Bay without even trying. This includes the Orks AND Eldar, who back then were still a giant Empire of Worlds. The Eldar on the other Hand are trying to "breed" a new God, if they succeed instant Advantage over everyone else.
So yeah, no Race is clearly superior unless those Points are met, because GW wants to keep 40K alive and People playing it.
The same goes for every other Species in other Stories/Movies/Shows, while having a gigantic advantage, they are not powerful enough to stop other Races in their Tracks, or if they are, then they simply do not care, because at that Point, no other Species is a Threat to them anymore.
Any single Universe in which any Fiction is played out has its own Rules and its own "Overpowered" Race so to speak.
In Dragonball, or rather Dragonball Z the actual End was supposed to be the Freeza Saga, therefore Son Goku was supposed to be the only Super Sayjan to exist. Not Vegeta, not Gohan, not Trunks etc pp. That was added later on because the Series didnt stop where it should have, so the Enemies got stronger and they added more and more "Forms" of Super Sayjans, like 2, 3 and 4, Ultra etc. At some Point it just got ridiculous.
In Warhammer 40K, all Races, despite their own Drawbacks and Advantages are fairly equal. Games Workshop will of course keep it that Way. They do favour Space Marines of course, which is very easy to see. But they are not going to make one Race powerful enough to wipe out the others.
For example, if the Chaos Gods would all combine their Powers, and equally all the Traitor Legions would once again form a Crusade which would rival the original Horus Heresy (No the current 13 Crusades havent reached that) Then yes, all other Races are basicly done for. Because the Emperor could not stop another Horus, let alone one of the demonic Primarchs. So if that were to happen, the Imperium falls.
If the Tyranids would attack in Force, yes their current 3 Hive Fleets are impressive and powerful, they are NOT their entire Force. By default the Tyranids are either fleeing some other, even more terrible Enemy or are drawn by the light of the Astronomican, which is powered by the Emperor's own Psychic Powers. Again if they were to show up in full Force, then you can kiss your Ass goodbye.
The same goes for Necrons, if all the Tomb Worlds across the Galaxy would rise at the exact same Point and attack in full Force every living Species, they would at the very least wipe out a few of them. However they are driven by the C'Than, and while only 4 are fully known to exist, each is planning something different. If of course they would focus on a common Enemy, again, good night at that point.
Every other Species has its Turning Point that, if they would achieve it, they would instantly win the entire War. The Imperium just needs to get back its full Technology from the Dark Age of Technology, if they achieved that Level again, or got very close to it, no other Species has a Chance, because at the height of its Power, the Imperium could hold all other Forces at Bay without even trying. This includes the Orks AND Eldar, who back then were still a giant Empire of Worlds. The Eldar on the other Hand are trying to "breed" a new God, if they succeed instant Advantage over everyone else.
So yeah, no Race is clearly superior unless those Points are met, because GW wants to keep 40K alive and People playing it.
The same goes for every other Species in other Stories/Movies/Shows, while having a gigantic advantage, they are not powerful enough to stop other Races in their Tracks, or if they are, then they simply do not care, because at that Point, no other Species is a Threat to them anymore.
The Great Old Ones are creatures from the Cthulhu mythos of H.P Lovecraft - in fact Cthulhu itself was a Great Old One. There are a few explanations for the Great Old Ones, demi-gods, extra-planar aliens, and so on. I'll let you develop your own take on them.Ascarus said:
Perhaps if lucius was killed by a member of his former chapter, and didnt really want to kill lucius that much but had to? In fact anyone that didnt want to kill lucius but had to would be in a good position to end him forever.theSovietConnection said:I think everyone who mentions Warhammer 40000 has forgotten one important entity of the Chaos realm
Lucius the Eternal, for lack of a better descriptor, simply can't die. Sure, it is possible to defeat him, and it has happened many times before. However, the moment his killer takes even the tiniest amount of enthusiasm, satisfaction, or pleasure from Lucius' death, he takes root, and slowly the killer transforms, until Lucius is back amongst the living, and his killer is now merely another screaming face in Lucius' power armor.
How about a servitor to kill him, or an arco flagalent? Or maybe a mind wiped vinicare? This doesnt seem too hard.
Il go with the god emperor. Im not sure if hes close enough to be human but hel do. I think the necrons have us beat if they manage to wake up. The only advantage we have is we can kill them in their sleep and the ctan dont like psykers.