I am more outraged that the rapist got no jail time, two years probation, a fine and community service. A DUI has worse penalties than that. That is the real problem.
Cheerleader must compensate school that told her to clap 'rapist'
- Thread starter slowpoke999
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It's actually very non-misleading, it's just you don't know how to read UK headlines. Note that "rapist" is in quotes in the headline - this is because they're quoting someone (implied to be the girl). If they hadn't put "rapist" in quotes, then they'd be exposing themselves to a libel suit because they're accusing someone of rape who was not convicted of rape.Grey Carter said:
He wasn't convicted of rape, so you're not allowed to punish him for rape. He received an appropriate (under the jurisdiction he lived in) punishment for misdemeanour sexual assault.Juggern4ut20 said:
This argument is an example of a problem that I really don't like. It basically extends this into the argument of gender, which is not really what it is about. If the sexes were reversed, would you still make the comment? While admittedly cheerleaders are predominantly female, saying that all women lose the right to free speech is a fallacy (that I can't quite remember the name of). Its like this article I read that said GTA: San Andreas glorifies killing blacks, when it really glorifies (kinda) killing in general. Loss of free speech, yes. Loss of free speech because she is a woman, no.miashin said:
This is actually a very good point, because then it would kind of reverse this by saying the girl refused to carry out her contract, regardless of reason. Do pardon the devil's advocate, but I find it an important role to play.
That's what you get for suing a school that fires your kid off of something as immaterial as a cheering squad.
So let me get this straight, Texas Law let a rapist off with 2 years probation, community service, anger management, and is not even going to have a record of rape, which likely means he's not going to have to register as a sex offender; And a girl who lead a civil lawsuit against the school and lost gets hit with a $45,000 dollar fine? I hate this world sometimes.
Well, as I see it she was simply using her right to free speech so she should be in her right according to the first amendment, but this is Texas, and they only support free speech when it supports the stereotypical Texan views.lyfeindeyth said:
Unless this is a private school we're talking about then this has no impact on the case. Public schools are not a private organization where you can't publicly disagree with their opinions. If this is a public school you are supposed to voice your opinion. Going to school is not like going to Guantanamo where your rights aren't valid anymore. Also the law works in mysterious ways. You wont get the same punishment for walking up to a person and punch him in the face as you will get for first being punched then punch back.Scars Unseen said:
I don't doubt the amount, but I question whether it was reasonable to award it, especially based on a claim that the lawsuit was "frivolous".theNater said:
Considering that what she was asked to do - something which would give any normal person reason for pause - there might be good reason to get a legal assessment of how far an employer's right to sack his employees based in their refusal to comply with patently offensive requirements go.
And while as stated I agree with the courts ruling on that issue - especially since the function the girl refused to perform was the very core function of the job, and because it was a voluntary job which her livelihood in no way depended upon - I'd thus consider it wrong to label the lawsuit "frivolous" in nature.
He was never convicted of rape.Frosted89 said:
OT: I find it difficult to commit to a side in this situation. While I agree that the girl should not be forced to cheer someone she claims raped her, at the same time, if she is unable, or in this case unwilling, to perform the sport (let me assume that cheerleading is a sport), then the coach has every right to remove her from the team.
Given this latter observation, it is patently obvious that her lawsuit was frivolous, so of course she should pay the school's legal fees.
But at the same time, I realize that it would have been ideal had she not been ejected from the team, but I suppose I don't understand southern sport culture.
Her right to free speech means she can't be arrested for saying or not saying whatever she wants. It does not protect her from losing her position on the cheer squad for not cheering.Yopaz said:
I'm not a lawyer, but I'm fairly sure that if you get punched exactly once, and you punch him four months later, you do get the same punishment as if you hadn't been punched.Yopaz said:
Some people here are letting their emotion get in front of their judgment. The second you hear 'rapist', logic just goes out the door for some.Frosted89 said:
If he 'got off with probation' it's because the prosecutor was not confident about their case against him and decided to either create or accept a plea bargain with the defense attorney. So the defendant pleaded guilty to a lesser charge, and by that I mean 'legally guilty'.
Put yourself in the position of the guy, supposing you are innocent. It's hard for those accused of rape to get an impartial jury, since rape is always linked with powerful emotions. You're black, in TEXAS. You could be convicted and go to prison for years. The prosecutor offers you a way out with simple probation and community service. Do you risk claiming your innocence at the risk of prison, or pick up garbage cans on the roads for a few hours.
This is how many trials end in America.
Or he could be a raping scumbag. How are you to know?
*I need to proofread.*
Irrelevant. Being free to speak does not, in all circumstances, protect you from the consequences of what you choose to say (or in this case, not say). If you act up enough in class you can get detention, suspension or even expulsion. No free speech protection there. If a football player sits down in the middle of a game in protest, he can be kicked off the team. In this case, the cheerleader chose not to cheer. The consequences are distasteful, but hardly shocking, considering they let a rapist (or more legally accurately, an convicted assailant) back on the team.Yopaz said:
As far as that last comment goes... the school did not punch her in the face. The school did not rape her. The school may have raped their own reputation, but that's not particularly relevant to a court case. And the results of the legal proceedings in this case far less than mysterious. Everyone up to the Supreme Court sided with the school and the Supreme Court didn't feel that the case was even worth hearing.
Yes. I do know how to read UK headlines. I also know that using a semi quotation without a source is deliberately misleading and makes for a more exciting headline.Ketsuban said:
My problem first and foremost goes back to the original case. I see people labeling this kid as a "rapist", in typical knee-jerk reaction, but how many of you actually went back and looked at this case?
I'm not masogynistic or anything, but it seems to me that in our society an unspoken problem is how nobody wants to address the subject of "rape" like adults, and worse, how rape has become an attack stigma. Not every situation is "rape" and not every person who "claims" they were raped is being honest about it. The problem is, rape is one of those horrible assaults that you can't feel... comfortable... if you show the slightest bit of doubt that the girl's story is legitimate.
Obviously the original case had some hiccups, because if it was anything more than he said/she said, that could be PROVEN, he'd have gotten a real sentence. Instead it was pleaded down and eventually dropped altogether. Now I'm not saying it didn't happen, but when you think about things objectively, you have to take into account the potentiality that maybe she wasn't being entirely honest. I mean, sure, we all like to blame the "star Jock" because somehow it makes us feel better that we never were lucky enough to BE him, but let me posit another possibility. This girl seems like someone who is used to getting her way too. She refuses to clap, she's given a choice to cheer or be permanently benched. She gets put off the team, and so she SUES the school district.. As if SHE was going to FORCE them to do what she wants. Again, sounds a bit "spoiled" to me.
Why is she still going to that school anyway? If her parents have money for lawsuits, surely she could arrange for private instruction or some other arrangement.
Ultimately though, the fact remains we just don't know. I don't know if the sexual assault was real or if it wasnt. But that's neither here nor there.
The facts remain:
- Extracurricular sports activities in high school are optional and voluntary. If you don't want to follow rules or participate.
- Failure to comply with aforementioned rules may be considered an act of VOLUNTARY removal from the team.
- Suing the school for money over the issue was stupid to begin with. It's not any of their doing, and even where the Guy is concerned, unless they have indesputable proof of a heinous crime taking place ON school grounds, is not the school's responsibility, unless her life was in danger.
- Suing someone and FAILING means you SHOULD have to reimburse them for the money they spent, TAX MONEY paid for by the citizens of the county, city, etc. Otherwise, all people need do to bully you is to bring a frivolous case against you, lose that case, then walk away leaving YOU with a damaging bill.
Sorry, school was in the right here, unless you were there the night of the alleged rape, none of us will ever REALLY know what happened. Thus all we can do is make educated guesses and be opinionated.
I'm not masogynistic or anything, but it seems to me that in our society an unspoken problem is how nobody wants to address the subject of "rape" like adults, and worse, how rape has become an attack stigma. Not every situation is "rape" and not every person who "claims" they were raped is being honest about it. The problem is, rape is one of those horrible assaults that you can't feel... comfortable... if you show the slightest bit of doubt that the girl's story is legitimate.
Obviously the original case had some hiccups, because if it was anything more than he said/she said, that could be PROVEN, he'd have gotten a real sentence. Instead it was pleaded down and eventually dropped altogether. Now I'm not saying it didn't happen, but when you think about things objectively, you have to take into account the potentiality that maybe she wasn't being entirely honest. I mean, sure, we all like to blame the "star Jock" because somehow it makes us feel better that we never were lucky enough to BE him, but let me posit another possibility. This girl seems like someone who is used to getting her way too. She refuses to clap, she's given a choice to cheer or be permanently benched. She gets put off the team, and so she SUES the school district.. As if SHE was going to FORCE them to do what she wants. Again, sounds a bit "spoiled" to me.
Why is she still going to that school anyway? If her parents have money for lawsuits, surely she could arrange for private instruction or some other arrangement.
Ultimately though, the fact remains we just don't know. I don't know if the sexual assault was real or if it wasnt. But that's neither here nor there.
The facts remain:
- Extracurricular sports activities in high school are optional and voluntary. If you don't want to follow rules or participate.
- Failure to comply with aforementioned rules may be considered an act of VOLUNTARY removal from the team.
- Suing the school for money over the issue was stupid to begin with. It's not any of their doing, and even where the Guy is concerned, unless they have indesputable proof of a heinous crime taking place ON school grounds, is not the school's responsibility, unless her life was in danger.
- Suing someone and FAILING means you SHOULD have to reimburse them for the money they spent, TAX MONEY paid for by the citizens of the county, city, etc. Otherwise, all people need do to bully you is to bring a frivolous case against you, lose that case, then walk away leaving YOU with a damaging bill.
Sorry, school was in the right here, unless you were there the night of the alleged rape, none of us will ever REALLY know what happened. Thus all we can do is make educated guesses and be opinionated.
Exactly. Trust me, being black in Texas carries its OWN problems and issues.Newtonyd said:
People, please, read the actual article. It doesn't make it 'good' but it at least makes it a bit more understandable.slowpoke999 said:
1) She didn't cheer, and was a cheer leader
2) She SUED the school for damages for being dismissed when she wouldn't cheer.
3) Her case was called frivilous, and she was forced to pay compensatory court fees.
She was NOT forced to pay money because of her lack of desire to cheer. She was forced to pay money because she made a frivilous claim.
Now, I'm not saying I agree with the courts, but this is much less ridiculous than it is being made out to be.
^^I do not think that I have ever agreed with another person so much as after reading this.^^^Happy Toki Toki said:
Seriously though, my family wonders why I hate almost all human beings... its for crap like this.
My only problem with this article is that no where does it say what she wanted out of the Lawsuit. It's Easy to cry foul when they charge her a large sum of money for court fees but whose to say she didnt demand a trillion dollars to begin with. I hate when articles say things like this. do I think it's right that a cheerleader is a "mouthpiece" no. I had to say the pledge of alegience when I was younger and if you didnt the principal sat you down and explained to you why it was important to recite the Pledge, even if you made up your own words to it, and if you were a turd about it you got in trouble. Law fees are expensive really expensive, and she lost so she has to pay what the courts deem fair due to the trial itself. She got kicked off the team and honestly if her parents said that schools full of shit they should of changed schools or maybe challengend the school board for expelling her from the team. I just think from start to finish this whole situation could have been handled better.
I can see where you're coming from. Would you be willing to call it "unjustified", rather than "unjustified and disproportionate"? It was the "disproportionate" part I found most troubling, anyway.Imperator_DK said:
While I disagree with her position-I feel she should have just quit the cheer squad when asked to cheer for him-it makes sense that the legal question could be worth asking.