Child directs air traffic at JFK airport
- Thread starter GrinningManiac
- Start date
Recommended Videos
I'm on the side of the FAA with this one.
The charges probably won't go anywhere, but playing with airliners like fucking toys is a very serious thing. You're talking about hundreds of lives on the most dangerous part of the flight - landing.
Like I said, the charges won't go anywhere further than 'Don't fucking do that again', because it's not like Dad said "Here's the seat, the headset, the radar. Go nuts, I'm off to bang your mother." and did just that.
Still, giving children or anyone unqualified this control results in:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroflot_Flight_593
The charges probably won't go anywhere, but playing with airliners like fucking toys is a very serious thing. You're talking about hundreds of lives on the most dangerous part of the flight - landing.
Like I said, the charges won't go anywhere further than 'Don't fucking do that again', because it's not like Dad said "Here's the seat, the headset, the radar. Go nuts, I'm off to bang your mother." and did just that.
Still, giving children or anyone unqualified this control results in:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroflot_Flight_593
Yeah, that's bullcrap. If the pilots were concerned, or the dad wasn't telling his son every single word to say, then it could have been dangerous, but as it was it was perfectly fine. And as for professionalism... what? This was purely between employees, meaning that any unprofessionalism wouldn't even necessarily have made it out of the cockpit. Beyond that, my impression of flights is that friendliness takes priority over professionalism when dealing with customers, meaning that even if this was a public thing, it shouldn't be a problem. This is stupid.
I guess it was somewhat unprofessional. However, I don't see anything wrong with this. The kid was in an air traffic control tower, with his dad who worked there, and presumably a room full of people doing similar jobs. So if the kid had said anything wrong or if there were any problems then it would be exceptionally easy for anyone else working there to immediately take over and rectify the situation.
So no, I don't see any problem and there is simply no need for the FAA to launch any probe. I did a gliding scholarship when I was sixteen, and the pilot was telling me while we were in the air what to say to Air Traffic Control. If I'd done anything wrong then my life and the pilot's life would have been in danger (one other guy on the course managed to break the glider's suspension when he landed after a solo flight, so you can see how dangerous flying as a novice can be). I realise that me flying with a pilot next to me aged sixteen is somewhat different to a little kid giving proper pilots instructions in an ATC tower. But the principle is the same. there were rofessionals around, any problems would have been dealt with safely. There is nothing wrong as far as I can see with this scenario.
So no, I don't see any problem and there is simply no need for the FAA to launch any probe. I did a gliding scholarship when I was sixteen, and the pilot was telling me while we were in the air what to say to Air Traffic Control. If I'd done anything wrong then my life and the pilot's life would have been in danger (one other guy on the course managed to break the glider's suspension when he landed after a solo flight, so you can see how dangerous flying as a novice can be). I realise that me flying with a pilot next to me aged sixteen is somewhat different to a little kid giving proper pilots instructions in an ATC tower. But the principle is the same. there were rofessionals around, any problems would have been dealt with safely. There is nothing wrong as far as I can see with this scenario.
They are right. People shouldn't be doing all they want as long "nothing happens" because eventually something will happen.
What you all seem to be missing (yes I know that sounds arrogant) is the little matter of Precedent.
Dad lets kid do some of his Air Traffic Controller job... nobody is hurt; ha, ha- it is to laugh.
Nothing happens to Dad for it.
Another Dad lets his kid do some of his job some other day, kid fucks up, planes crash, and people die.
... but the second Dad could legitimately argue in the court system that precedent had been set, and escape from charges of negligence (or whatever), even though his actions directly caused the accident.
Is it a bit of a killjoy? Yeah. Is it strict? Hell yeah. Is it absolutely necessary? Yes; without question.
Ultimately, there are just things that you absolutely cannot risk maintaining anything by the highest standards of discipline, because human lives are in play.
The dad was on the mic with the kid, so he could overrule anything he might have said wrongly. Also, i would think he would have warned the pilots about it. i heard a little clip on airliners.net, and the pilots actually seemed amused.
now i'm not condoning this action, but on the other hands it's not like he let the kid loose on the mic and the skies exploded into an uncoordinated fireball of metal death and destruction, (loving that imagery btw). Unnproffesional? deffinitly. Dangerous? Not as much as the media would let you think.
now i'm not condoning this action, but on the other hands it's not like he let the kid loose on the mic and the skies exploded into an uncoordinated fireball of metal death and destruction, (loving that imagery btw). Unnproffesional? deffinitly. Dangerous? Not as much as the media would let you think.
This free spirit must be crushed. NOBODY acts unprofessionally in the FAA, lest the world itself stop turning.
There's a time and a place for everything, and this clearly wasn't it. the FAA are correct in punishing the father for potentially jeopardizing the lives of those both on the ground and in the planes.
Whilst your analogy was awful and didn't make an ounce of sense, I completley understand where you're coming fromKwil said:
I should really point out, to avoid the debate growing gradually hostile, that when I said "letting them off for something harmless", it wasn't my actual steadfast belief, but rather the idea that would float around in most people's heads, and so I put it there to create converstation, which I have
So can we carry on with the debate over "is it wrong or right" without the slight tilt towards "and therefore Grinning is wrong"
This topic has been discussed at lenght on AIRLINERS.NET,
linky: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4731601/
For those of you unfamilliar with the site, it's place where aviation anthusiasts such as myself post pictures, and talk about subject related to aviation. Whenever something major happens in the industry, this is where i go for my info. The site is populated by aviation professionals, mostly pilots and ground support staff (engineers, ATC, etc). So these people know what they are talking about, unlike the mainstream media who get anything even remotely related to aviation as wrong as you can get.
linky: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4731601/
For those of you unfamilliar with the site, it's place where aviation anthusiasts such as myself post pictures, and talk about subject related to aviation. Whenever something major happens in the industry, this is where i go for my info. The site is populated by aviation professionals, mostly pilots and ground support staff (engineers, ATC, etc). So these people know what they are talking about, unlike the mainstream media who get anything even remotely related to aviation as wrong as you can get.
Yes it was a 'bit of fun' and I think its not as serious as it seems,
But when you are dealing with the potential of thousands of deaths - its serious.
How about letting a kid drive a car? Because the ATC is the eyes and ears of the air industry.
Or let your kid do major electrical work on your house? Because y'know, watching him constantly means that its completely safe, except when you have a drink... If the kid was trained in air traffic control systems, then it would have been less of an issue. Heck, if it was Back-of-nowhere's airport handling one flight out and none in, I wouldnt see it as a big of an issue as well. JFK is kinda huge and not so safe...
Should there be criminal or civil charges? No. Should there be a warning and some cooling heels time? Yes. Should there be an investigation to ensure it doesnt happen again? Yes. It may be as simple as a change to the employee policies. Sometimes, we do the things we see as right or of negligble risk when its possible to be exceptionally dangerous.
The worst part is people saying 'Nothing went wrong, so nothing will ever go wrong'. We should know better.
But when you are dealing with the potential of thousands of deaths - its serious.
How about letting a kid drive a car? Because the ATC is the eyes and ears of the air industry.
Or let your kid do major electrical work on your house? Because y'know, watching him constantly means that its completely safe, except when you have a drink... If the kid was trained in air traffic control systems, then it would have been less of an issue. Heck, if it was Back-of-nowhere's airport handling one flight out and none in, I wouldnt see it as a big of an issue as well. JFK is kinda huge and not so safe...
Should there be criminal or civil charges? No. Should there be a warning and some cooling heels time? Yes. Should there be an investigation to ensure it doesnt happen again? Yes. It may be as simple as a change to the employee policies. Sometimes, we do the things we see as right or of negligble risk when its possible to be exceptionally dangerous.
The worst part is people saying 'Nothing went wrong, so nothing will ever go wrong'. We should know better.
It's fun until someone gets hurt, then it's hilarious.
OK, so no one got hurt this time round, but that can't be guaranteed the next time someone tries to pull it off. Maybe they're treating it quite severely just to make an example of the guy, and put off anyone else planning in following in his footsteps. The dad shouldn't be punished in my opinion, just given a warning, so a sort of "yeah we'll let it slide this time, but the next person to try that will be dealt with severely."
OK, so no one got hurt this time round, but that can't be guaranteed the next time someone tries to pull it off. Maybe they're treating it quite severely just to make an example of the guy, and put off anyone else planning in following in his footsteps. The dad shouldn't be punished in my opinion, just given a warning, so a sort of "yeah we'll let it slide this time, but the next person to try that will be dealt with severely."