China riots, island tensions and the UN -updated

[___________________]

If Japan and China go to war at least we'll get to see Japan's giant robots and cyborg samurai. Yes, their arrow tips have miniature nuclear warheads inside, their blades can cut through the hardest substance know to man and their robotic horses have pez dispensers and breath fire.

 

[lacktheknack]

RACISM!

With that out of the way... gah. Japan bought the islands, that's how it works.

What is this, The Two Years Of Riots? London Riots, Chinese Riots, Islamic Riots, Vancouver Hockey Riots, Quebec Student Riots... I've had quite enough of the riots. Why not try diplomacy with tea for a change?

 

[Gennadios]

I don't see the problem as China has swaths of resources already while Japan gets the majority of raw materials to build its electronics from foreign sources, like China... One set of oil-rich islands won't be enough to make Japan a threat militarily.

Still, if this were Civilization I'd probably take action just to make sure, Oda Nabunaga can be pretty aggressive.

 

[Squilookle]

Can someone give me a TLR about what the damn they are fighting about?

All you had to do was get to the third paragraph of the OP, to have it all layed out for you in two lines. Seriously- that's as far as you needed to get on your own. By yourself.

If Japan and China go to war at least we'll get to see Japan's giant robots and cyborg samurai. Yes, their arrow tips have miniature nuclear warheads inside, their blades can cut through the hardest substance know to man and their robotic horses have pez dispensers and breath fire.

I'm hoping at the very least we'll get a Mercenaries or Flashpoint game about it... boy I miss those gems...

 

[zehydra]

Why don't they just share the fucking islands? Allow each others companies to set up shop for the oil, and split the profits?

Sovereignty means fuck-all when no population is living there and nobody gave a shit about it for 60 odd years; we all know this is about the money. Japan pulled a fast one and China's being a ***** about it beforehand and after. Petty squabble that could end up being needlessly more serious.

That's nationalism for you

 

[Casual Shinji]

Damn this looks pretty damn serious
Hope we don't get another Tiananmen Square Massacre on our hands...

With how easy it is the access information in this day and age... I doubt China would want to repeat that horribly embarrassing mistake.

Oh don't worry, the Chinese goverment can cover up nasty business like that right quick. At least, it can for its own population. You ask any Chinese younger than 25 about the Tianamen Square massacre and they won't know what the hell you're talking about. You show them the picture of Tank Man and they'll think it's just modern art or something.

 

[BeeGeenie]

Can someone give me a TLR about what the damn they are fighting about?

TL;DR:
China: "Mommy, Japan's touching my stuff!"
Japan: "It's not yours, I just bought it. With MY money."
China: "Waaah! I saw it first!"
Japan: "Then you should have bought it when you had the chance."
China: "Fine, then I'm gonna smash all the toys I got from you. So there!"

 

[Fwee]

Spoiler: Some well thought out words...

So strange... I live in Shanghai, but I haven't seen anything crazy like this happen.. well, early days yet.

Let me summarise this, as to how I understand the history over here:
1) 14th century, China claims islands
2) 1890 Japan takes over islands (in a war)
3) WWII America takes over islands
4) 1970 America gives islands back to Japan, China doesn't object or say anything

A few days ago we had an air-raid drill across China, you know, those sirens you hear in Silent Hill (also from WWII) as the world changes before you... I didn't know it was a drill and promptly began sh*tting myself.

Aside from the resources that can be gained from owning these islands (gas deposits and oil, I believe), the biggest motivation for this conflict is "face"... a concept many in the West have difficulty understanding.

This concept of "face" as well as thousands upon thousands of years of culture and history is easily scoffed at by people of the West; for it is considered beneath them. China refuses to be seen as weak, in the past it has been exploited by the West and Japan many times...

Japan refuses to acknowledge what is had done during WWII. They even refuse to educate their younger generations as to what they did to China during the invasion. Japan also has shrines for the fallen soldiers and "heroes" who massacred and raped China and they are often commemorated, worshipped, etc.

Imagine if Germany had shrines to the "heroes" who helped exterminate the millions of Jews in the extermination camps and to the "heroes" who blitzed London... maybe now you have a small insight as to how delicate things are over here.

It is difficult to understand things foreign and easy to draw comparisons to the limited experiences we have. Many people in the UK think it is bat-sh*t crazy, that people in America can walk the streets with guns, therefore they assume people are getting shot; left-right and center... it is easy for the people of UK to say "Hey, why don't you Americans just ban guns? We do, in the UK... simple" However, there are those in the UK who can look past these simplified and arguably ignorant remarks and reach understandings as to why America does what it does.

Educate yourselves. Look into the history of these islands. Look at both sides of the stories. Travel to China and Japan. Talk to the people.

[edit: typo]

Most people here in the States probably don't understand the concept of "face". Most types around here have "pride" of a national sort. Instead of a foundation that can be corroded or chipped away we have a big inflated balloon of ego.

 

[AverageExtraordinair]

If Japan and China go to war at least we'll get to see Japan's giant robots and cyborg samurai. Yes, their arrow tips have miniature nuclear warheads inside, their blades can cut through the hardest substance know to man and their robotic horses have pez dispensers and breath fire.

LoL but seriously how would that work exactly if Japan and China did go to war? Would the Japaneses president just call up the U.S Navy and say "well good luck with that" ?

 

[lacktheknack]

RACISM!

With that out of the way... gah. Japan bought the islands, that's how it works.

What is this, The Two Years Of Riots? London Riots, Chinese Riots, Islamic Riots, Vancouver Hockey Riots, Quebec Student Riots... I've had quite enough of the riots. Why not try diplomacy with tea for a change?

People can riot with Tea...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party

NOTHING IS SACRED. NOTHING.

 

[C. Cain]

(...) This could be China trying to pump up their people to decrease war weariness in preparation for war.

OT: I'm not 100% sure this will lead to war immediately/now, but it will probably be a global hotspot that will lead to a major conflict between China and Japan.

That's pretty unlikely.

<quote= According to The Guardian>
Washington has declined to take sides in the Senkaku row, but acknowledges that under the US-Japan security treaty it is required to come to its ally's aid if it is attacked.

Japan's foreign minister, Koichiro Gemba, who met Panetta in Tokyo on Monday, said it was "mutually understood between Japan and the United States that [the Senkakus] are covered by the treaty".

There's little to no chance that China will go to war with the US. And there's also little to no chance that Japan will start a war of aggression, for several reasons.

 

[GistoftheFist]

Well, here it comes! World War III. Armageddon. The End of Days. Ragnarok. Doomsday. Gary.
The world took it's time and now it's gone to hell! I'll head out to the bunker post haste, it's already stocked up and it's got enough food, supplies and hentai to last me at least 30 years.

Spoiler: Come get me Humans! I'm ready for ya!

... I'm overreacting a slight tad aren't I?

I don't care what you say, you'll never have enough hentai to last 30 years. You'll blow through all of it during the first winter and go crazy, dressing up your canned spaghetti-o's to look like attractive young women.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

Tell that to the Tibetans who they invaded in 1956, the Indians who they attacked in 1962, the Russians who they attacked in 1969 and the Vietnamese who they attacked in 1979.

to the Chinese Tibet is part of China. it only existed as an independent state for 30 years of its entire history. "old maps" as i said before.

the rest were cold war border conflicts that resulted in next to no territorial change and directly led to the Sino-Soviet split and China becoming a US ally in the cold war. if you want to frame those as Chinese "imperialist" aggression you simply are making a mockery of far more complicated history involved.

and by my "logic" nothing. my or your supposed "logic" and your desire for the world to adhere to it while throwing around false equivalences doesn't shape the world. but the Chinese Confuciust view of China does shape their world and maybe just maybe you should find out what the hell that is before you go trying to label them the next overly simplistic "big bad" on the world stage simply because for your own world view to work you've got to have one.

this ? this a an argument about a rock in the sea akin to multitudes of others some of which almost certainly involve your own country ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_territorial_disputes ) and as such it doesn't particularly mark China down as anything.

Just because China acquired no land in those territorial disputes doesn't mean that those weren't imperialist style attacks. They quite clearly were. They didn't play to colonize anyone they attacked. (as @albino boo pointed out, look at Tibet. Hell, look at the Uyghur situation) You say that "to the Chinese, Tibet is a part of China". To Tibetans that's clearly not the case. A bunch of monks didn't start riots in 2008 because they were a part of China, they felt the exact opposite. Not saying that the Japanese side of this is any less imperialistic (while not as strong, their imperialistic ideals are still ingrained in their culture as well), but to say that China's reaction to this isn't imperialistic is ludicrous. The Chinese and Japanese have been at odds for almost 200 years, there are still imperialistic ideals in this situation.

 

[Spinozaad]

And how would they actually fight the war? It's not like you can have a proper stand-off on those pesky rocks...

Oh, simple. They'd just fight it on Japanese soil.
The only reason why Japan is even in the position to play this game is their defense treaty with the US.

"Simple?"

A full invasion of Japan and the major islands? They will never attempt a full scale invasion for some rocks in the ocean. If only from a cost - profit perspective (if there's oil underneath the Kenkakuthingies, those islets), such an undertaking will be massive with no guarantee of success.